The Muslim community of the area and the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA) is trying to do something positive and build a testament to interfaith harmony–aptly named the “Cordoba House”. Cordoba or Qartaba remains the icon of the seven hundred year Jewish-Christian-Muslim symbiosis which was also considered the golden era of World Jewry. During the time, a Jewish Prime Minister (Wazir e Ala) Hasdai Shaprut was appointed to run the government, and he did this for 30 years. During his reign Shaprut was also the head of the Army (Siapa e Salar) and used to write threatening letters to those Christian states that abused Jews.
All this came to a crashing end after King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella defeated the last Muslim Caliph and then went on to impose the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition killed, converted or deported all the Jews and Muslims in Spain.
Many see the US as the rebirth of the Jewish-Christian-Muslim symbiosis. Columbus sailed from this Muslim area and many of the sailors were Arab and Muslim. At least two the captain of this three ships were the Syrian Arab Panzone brothers. Columbus used Arab maps to sail which had listed America as Ard a Majhoola (unknown earth).
The first Muslims apparently reached America in the 7th century–this deciphered from archaeological evidence from Arizona rocks which display Islamic inscriptions and names.
Some of the earliest American reconverts to Islam were apparently the Cherokkees, whose head dress, language, and names show Islamic inclinations, and culture.
One third of the slaves that were captured from Muslim African countries were Muslims and the Roots story told by Alex Haily showed Kunte Kunte as a Muslim. Today the African American community is about 33% Muslim moving towards 50% number.
Today there are between 6 million to 16 million Muslims in America–more than Jews, and many talk about what Dr Bulliet has defined as the Christo-Muslim Civilization.
- A 13-story mosque is planned near the World Trade Center site, in a building that was damaged by airplane debris on Sept. 11, 2001.
- A Lower Manhattan community board said Wednesday that it supported the $100-million mosque and cultural centre.
- The project is aimed at creating a space for the neighborhood’s growing Muslim population.
- Supporters say the history associated with the damaged former department store was one reason to pick it.
- The new mosque will be built on the former site of a Burlington Coat Factory that was damaged in the 9/11 attacks.
- The TriBeCa mosque has had to expand to three evening prayer services every Friday to deal with the growing Muslim population.
- “New immigrants coming to the area — you see a lot of people coming to Canal Street, a lot of street vendors and laborers,” says Daisy Kahn, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement. “But also a lot of people in the financial community coming to prayers as well.”
- When Kahn’s organization found a vacant property on Park Place, the former site of a Burlington Coat Factory that had been damaged by airplane debris on September 11, 2001, the potent symbolism of the site also became a compelling rationale for the project.
- “We decided we wanted to look at the legacy of 9/11 and do something positive,” she explained in an interview.
- Her group represents moderate Muslims who want “to reverse to trend of extremism and the kind of ideology that the extremists are spreading.”
- “Events like [Times Square] always set us back,” Khan said. “Leaders have to push back in the other direction, and that’s what we’re trying to do.”
In effort to tackle misunderstanding about Islam amongst the American society, Cordoba House – a Masjid and Islamic cultural center as well as community center – will be built at 45 Park Place, New York.
The Cordoba House – that’s the name of the Islamic center will be – will stand above the former Burlington Coat Factory building, World Trade Center.
“The Muslim community must provide an opportunity to educate individuals about Islam through education and organized experiences of art, culture, and entertainment,” as quoted from a release.
“We decided we wanted to look at the legacy of 9/11 and do something positive,” said Daisy Khan, the executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement.
Initiator of the project, Cordoba Initiative, is now concerned with raising funding at around $100 million.
This will apparently be accomplished smoothly as the initiator said there was no criticism as well as opposition so far, adding that full support of the Cordoba House Islamic center is supported by surrounding Muslim community.
Planned to be finished in 2013, the Cordoba House will not only be functioned for the five daily prayers, but also for community center, sports hall, gathering place, and Islamic center for teaching and learning.
As its goal to educate people about Islam, the Cordoba House will be open for all people, either Muslims or non-Muslims.
Cordoba Initiative alone is an Islamic organization that aims to to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, steering the world back to the course of mutual recognition and respect and away from heightened tensions.Ahlul Bayt News Agency (ABNA.ir), United States-
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Building a giant mosque near ground zero will NOT foster harmony. On the contrary, it will serve as an in your face reminder of the religious ideology that motivated the mass killers to the people who lost their loved ones on 9/11 and Americans as a whole. It is either a sinister or a totally bone headed move that attempts to take shameless advantage of Americas liberal traditions.
Americans are building mosques. Those who want to drive wedges between Americans will fail. Bigots cannot survive for long.
The Wall Street Lower Manhattan Council has already approved it.
300 of the 3000 who died on 9/11 were Muslims. You forgot to mention that.
The Mosque will be built–and many hundreds of more like it confirming its mutli-cultureal and multi-religious Abrhamic roots (Jewish-Christian-Islamic).
Let the games begin.
Just wondering if a 13- story Christian church would be welcomed in any Islamic nations? Maybe Saudi Arabia? How about if the building was just 600 feet away from where Christians had killed over 3000 Muslims? I suppose Islam, the ‘religion of peace’, would have no problem with this…right?
Your loaded question is of course full of presumptions. Did you really need an answer. 300 of the 3000 who died on 9/11 were Muslims. You forgot to mention that.
In every major city of Pakistan for example in a prime location there is a huge Gothic Architecture Church. The Watch Tower Society is proselytizing in every city. In addition there are hundreds of Christian Schools–I went to one for 12 years with real pastors, priests and Nuns.
The theme of the Cordoba House is Abrhamic Unity and the local Wall Street Council has already approved it.
This is also pretty much the norm in countries like Jordan, Syria, Dubai, the UAE, Indonesia, Malysia, Nigeria etc.
So now that someone says that the earliest muslims were identified inthe United States somewhere around the seventh century and that cherokee headresses resemble muslim I suppose that the extreme muslims will now claim the United States as a muslim country and demand that we give it back to them, fueling the fire of jihad. and another thing 600 feet from the world trade center you got to be kidding me that there is no oppisition. unbelievable and appaling. Wake up Americans you are being surrounded by your enemies just like the in the Quaran. What do the war scriptures say about bringing peace until you can conquer the infidals. Wow God help us. And I mean the true God not the false god allah. The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob the God of Israel and the God of our founding fathers. Wake Up.America before its too late.
America is a revival of Jewish-Christian-Islamic symbiosis that flourished in Spain from 711-1492. It is a grand place, a city on the hill.
Here is information that they don’t teach you in your KKK school.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/04/26/usa-muslims-7th-century-islamic-inscriptions-on-nevada-rocks/
One third of African slaves were Muslims. Mali Muslim ships came to the US in the 10th and 12 centuries converting the Cherokees to Islam. Admiral Zeng He a Muslim came to Norther American shores in 1421. There are mosques all over the Americas that pre-date Columbus.
The process started before Columbus and much before the Mayflower. You just didn’t know about it.
Americans are awake. You need to wake up. We are all Americans—Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Zorastrian, Jian, Buddhist, Agnostic and Atheist.
Thomas Jefferson owned a copy of the Quran and the Bill of Rights is derived from the Quran, Haq e Qol, Haq e Insan, Haq a Hurriat. Jefferson rejected Trinity in favor of the Quran version of the historical events of Jesus. Read the Jefferson Bible. Deisists were not Trinitarisn–but Unitarians—very close to Islam
Allah is Al-Lah, Lah, Laheim, El–all the same words to describe God. The Quran defines Jesus as the spirit of God, and all Muslim wait for his return as Christ. Read Chapter 19 “Mary” (Surah a Maryam) of the Quran which describes the miraclous conception of Jesus and lists at least to miracles of Jesus that the Bible does not mention.
The God of Abraham, Jacob, Israel are all mentioned in the Quran as our one common God. The founding father were Deisits–not bigots.
Who cares what you think. You can keep reading your KKK novels and keep thinking in your Lilly White ways–the world has moved on. Look at the presidency–Obama’s middle name is Husein and has grandparents and half brothers who are Muslim and Christian. This is the new America.
God Bless America
Some one should actually study Islam!!!! If this would happen then you would quickly see that Islam is not nor never will be a friend of the world or for that matter anyone who does not comform to or accept Islam. Its time to get real and understand the truth.
Islam is a synthesis of Judaism and Christianity–an Abrahamic religion which has the same roots worshipping the same God.
We understand who the bigots are and what they think.
There is a very old saying “the caravans pass–the dogs keep barking”
For the racist one–this should keep you up at night.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA, in Europe, in India, and in the world. Three fourths of the converts in the West are women.
What should give you nightmares is—there is nothing you can do about it.
The commentators apart from the editor on the subject need to study early history.Bible will be a very good source. Christianity and Islam has complete similarity except for one thing and i.e. Jesus is not son of God. No individual has any right to pass any kind of derogatory remarks against any religion or belief. As far as the mosque is concerned, if it is destined to be built no one can stop and if not, no one can build it. Please be assured 9/11 is an inside job known to everyone now, it is time to find and act accordingly, and people should not spread hatred as that would consume you. American people should be able to find out the enemy and many of them know it. Do not close your eyes, keep it open and let America flourish.Justice should done to all and America stands for JUSTICE. Wrong should be punished and right should be rewarded.
Although not all Muslims are extreme , they all believe the same thing. There is not a single one of the 55 predominately Muslim nations on earth today where Christians are not persecuted. I say lets put a massive Christian church in Bagdad, Iraq. That would be lovely. The Qu’ran is a incoherent rhapsody of fable and not on the same level of the bible. Muslims are will continue to infiltrate American culture and cultures all over the world, this is their little secret called “fatah”.
Mr. The best Pakistani news paper(which I really admire) has different and more appropriate opinion here
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/03-pakistan-a-nursery-of-modern-jihad-ss-02 and here http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/19-us-warns-pakistan-over-terror-report-hh-07
You can stick to Dawn.com. Why bother us?
THE DELUSIONS of jewish,Christian,islamic,hinduic
CIVILIZATION ENTITIES;
Dear Editor;
If one connects “out of africa” and written history
(unknown untill 19th cent) of Mesopotamia/egypt of some 6000 yrs it is clear that BIBLICAL creationism,
aryans,semitic,,hametic/black races of NOAH was either ” innovative myth or priestly racism/fraud”.
ALL scholars accept that greek,mideast,indic civiliztions are rooted in mideast and its founders were
“out of Africa”; AND sons of NOAH never existed nor his
Semitic/aryan races; THIS is religious mythical fiction;
I wonder how 10,000 yrs old mideast cultural system evolved by mideast/neolithic farmers be called JEWISH, ISLAMIC
or Christian; These are the names of religious faith that connects you with GOD of all and supposed to make you a better human; IT is really sad that the inter religious wars,crusades,partition of Palestine or India ,holocaust, 9/11,
etc are primarily due to USING myths as historical fact;
We all know that great mthical figures, MOSES, ABRAHAM, SOLOMON,DAVID, RAM, KRISHNA etc are
non historic. IT really seems that most of us are in fact BIGOTED/HYPOCRITS”;
We teach evolution and real history in the classrooms but also BRAIN-
WASH our kids with BIBLICAL/HINDUIC RACISM as
history and prepare them to hate and judge others in negatives; thus jews hate gentiles,hindu and muslims
each others and for christian all are sinners anyway;
TO me as a physician Biblical creationism seems to be the greatest
source of racism –that even rationalize black slavery and so is hindu caste creationism from GOD .
YOUR cordova initiative is a noble object of interfaith
peace- a means to work togather. BUT it can never be
peace of heart unless we accept in our heart the idea
of ” evolution based shared earthy history of civilization” out africa
and NOT from any creationism/racism; THIS can be most easily done from the PULPIT of all religious houses of worships including the great upcoming mosque near ground zero. Peace in 21st cent is attainable if we teach a shared history based on evolution. and NOT RELIGIONS and delusions of
JUdeo-christian ,islamic, hinduic entities;
Spanish civilization , in essence is a cumulative
evolution out af africa and mideast farmers’ migration
over some 5000 yrs ; the last migrants/invaders in
8th century brought from the same mideast/noth africa
an updated form of culture/language to which they
had given new flag/names, lslamic,jewish ,etc; It was old wine in new bottle, the culture of MIDEAST farmers.
We don’t need to read KKK novels in order to find out who the real bigots are. What part of the following quotes do you not understand:
“O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other;
and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide these unjust people.” The Koran (Surah 5.51)
“From the beginning, its [Islam's] spread was accomplished through physical violence, bloodshed and war. Violence not only against non-Muslim infidels, but also against fellow Muslims. Much of Islam’s spread in the world was the result of traders and Sufi missionaries, this is true. Yet the weaponry–scimatars and sabars–all through the art and symbolism of Islam, makes violence and war a central theme in Islam…Mohammad both taught and practiced violence from the beginning.”
quoted by:
Abdul Houssain Zarin Koub, Imminent Muslim Scholar
We don’t accept the quote which is WRONG.
Christians and Jews are called “people of the book”–and Muslims are allowed to marry them, and they can remain Christian–forget “friend”. In fact the prophet married one Khatija who was Nabatean (Old orthodox Christianity).
King Negus of Abysenia was one such friend of the prophet–who gave asylum to the Muslims when escaping prosecution
You can play this game of cherry picking and then presenting bad translations.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh–the usual mis-interpretarion and using the WRONG translations
The Arabic word is “Auliya”–which means religious benefactor—Auliya means religious benfactor not “friend”
Not sure who the “imminent scholar” is but never heard of him.
Facts cannot be denied
Crusades–millions killed
Colonialism millions killed
WW1 15 million killed
WW2 55 million murdered
Vietnam 3 million bombed to death
Korea 2 million murdered
Any scripture can be misquoted—
(May God forgive me if I have transgressed!!)
“Ye shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer…he shall surely be put to death” (Numbers 35:31).
“Thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe” (Exodus 21:23-25)
Punishments for the Amalkites are clearly defined in Deutronomy. If memory serves me right it is 12:24 or thereabouts. (I’ll check it in my Torah and then correct this post). The Rabbi in the synagogue said that the Palestinians were the new Amalkites and deserves the punishments listed in Deutronomy.
And When the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them, thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them;
Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. . . .(Deuteronomy 7:2-6)
When you draw near a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you . . . you shall put all its males to the sword, but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies . . . Thus you shall do to all of the cities which are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here.
But in the cities of these people that the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and Jebusites, . . . (Deuteronomy 20:10-18)
Know, therefore, that only the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps His covenant and steadfast love to those who love Him and keep His commandments, to a thousand generations and requites to their faith those who hate him, by destroying them – never slow with those who reject Him, but requiting them instantly. Therefore, observe faithfully the instruction-the laws and the rules – with which I charge you today. (Deuteronomy 7:6-12
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you.You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
Bearing false witness in a capital case was in itself a crime punishable by death (Sanhedrin 9B, 32B, 86A, & 89A).
Mishna, Sanhedrin 7.4 concerns offenders sentenced to death by stoning:
[1] one who has intercourse with his mother or his father’s wife, his daughter-in-law, a male or a beast;
[2] a woman who copulates with a beast;
[3] the blasphemer and the idol-worshipper;
[4] one who curses his father or his mother;
[5] one who has intercourse with a betrothed girl;
[6] the instigator (to apostasy) [mesith] and the imposter [maddich;
cf. Deut 13];
[7] the sorcerer, and
[8] the disobedient or rebellious son.
The Old Testament prescribed stoning as the penalty for other different crimes:
- “If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a
disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). Contrary to this approach, in Islam even regency of woman does not determine adultery.
- “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”(Exodus, 35:
- “If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death”
(Exodus, 21:29).
- “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads” (Leviticus, 20:13).
Pro-Slavery passages in the New Testament:
Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. (1 Timothy 6:2)
Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-1)
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to the kind and gentle but also to the overbearing. (1 Peter 2:18)
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ… (Ephesians 6:5)
New Testament that accuse Jews or the Jewish religious leaders of violent intentions or physical violence against Jesus or his followers:
Matthew 12:9-14, 16:21, 20:17-19, 21:33-46, 26:1-5, 14-16, 47-50, 26:57, 66, 27:1-2, 19-26. Scathing attacks on the Jewish religious leaders of the day and their teachings. (Matthew 15:12-14, 16:5-12, 21:12-13, and chapter 23,
Mark 11:15-17, 12:38-40, Luke 12:1-3, 16:14-15).
Mark 3:1-6, 8:31, 10:33-34, 12:1-12, 14:1-2, 10-11, 43-49, 64, 15:1, 8-15.
Luke 9:22, 20:9-26, 22:1-6, 52-53, 22:26, 23:5, 23:13-25.
John 5:15-18, 7:1, 10-13, 19-20, 28-34, 8:20, 37-40, 57-59, 10:30-39, 11:45-57, 12:9-11, 18:3-14, 19-24, 28-32, 19:6-7, 12-16. Acts 2:22-23, 3:13, 4:22, 5:17-42, 6:8-15, 7:50-60, 8:1-3, 9:1-2, 9:21, 13:28-29, 50, 14:1-6, 19, 17:5-9, 20:19, 21:11, 22:22-23, 23:2-3, 10, 12-15, 20-21, 27, 24:1-9.
Acts 15, 21:17-26, Galatians 2:3-6.
Acts 13:14-16, 14:1, 17:1-4, 18:1-4).
Acts 28:16-17, 21-25
2 Corinthians 11:24.
1 Thessalonians 2:15-15.
The translation is correct. Whether you wish to accept it or not is another matter.
You know yourself that the phrase “people of the Book” is not an endearing term. Mohammad used this term in referring to Jews and Christians as having corrupted God’s true revelation: “O followers of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Indeed Our Apostle has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah (i.e. the Koran)…” Surah 5.15
Mohammad married Khadija, who was a rich widow merchant in Mecca, when he was around 25 years old. Islam did not begin until “The Night of Power” when Mohammad was now 40 years old. Therefore, Mohammad married Khadija before the Muslim religion had even begun…so what is your point?
For your information, Abdul Houssain Zarin Koub was the longtime head of the department of religion and philosophy at the University of Tehran. He has also lectured at Columbia University and elsewhere. His book, “History of Religion”, has been translated into over 60 languages. His grandfather was one of the founders of Baghdad University.
You have spent a lot of time listing a few of the many commandments written throughout the Law and the Prophets. You can choose to try and obey all of them, or if you study the scriptures properly, you will learn that the whole Law and Prophets is based upon just two commandments. These two commandments are found in Matthew 22: 36-40.
Christianity does not condone slavery. Quite the opposite. It teaches to be content in whatever your life situation is at the time of your salvation: “Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free; rather do that.”
(1 Corinthians 7: 21 )
Jesus spoke out against the scribes and Pharisees throughout His ministry because of the burden they put upon the people. The religious leaders hated Him for exposing them for what they were all about. This is why Jesus came-to set the captives free. The entire chapter of Matthew 23 (which you listed) explains all of this perfectly. I suugest you read. It is very enlightening. The enmity between the Messiah and the religious leaders had been foretold by the Biblical
Prophets of old.
The given reason for building the Cordoba House as stated in the article is for “building a testament to interfaith harmony.” Maybe you should read the article again. Or maybe my suspicions are right all along.
“The Resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them…the trees and the rocks will say, ‘O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ ”
The Prophet Mohhamad
From the Hadith
By simply jumping up and down and misquoting the Quran, doesn’t mean anything. Auliya is the Arabic word which means “religious benefactor”. They didn’t teach you that in KKK School of Bigotry did they?
A Muslim is allowed by the quran to marry the “People of the Book” (Jews and Christian”). This is a friend–more than a friend. Your misquote is appalling and contrary to the teachings of Islam.
ISLAM DID NOT BEGIN WITH PROPHET MUHAMMAD. The Quran clearly says Abraham was a Muslim, as was Moses, David, and Adam
Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Matthew 27:25
All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”
John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars – I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, “On the Jews and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.
1 Sam 14:45 But the troops retorted, “Jonathan, who saved Israel today, shall die? Far from it! We vow by the life of God that not one hair on his head will be touched, for he has been used of God to do a mighty miracle today.” So the people rescued Jonathan. TLB
Jer 15:2 And if they say to you, ‘But where can we go?’ tell them the Lord says: ‘Those who are destined for death, to death; those who must die by the sword, to the sword; those doomed to starvation, to famine; and those for captivity, to captivity.’ TLB
You and the worst bigots hiding in a cave are two sides of the same coin. There is no difference between you and guy who tried to commit the murder of the innocent.
http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/church/persecution/persecution.pdf
Numerous texts in that longer treatise make the undiluted accusation that the Jews were
responsible for Jesus’ crucifixion. (32, 67,72).
When shown the hollowness of your rhetorical bigotry–you were left naked to try to justify the verses out of the Bible and the Torah. Deuteronomy and other sections are full of these allegorical stories.
Paul doesn’t share your ecumenical Disneyland views of the world. Should I quote the exact verses from Paul’s rendering of Jesus.
The prophet married a Christian–period. She remained a Christian.
Rapture, and Revelation are exactly what Prophet Muhammad was referring to. Your selective use of versus of the Quran out of context impresses no one. Even in the quote you put “…” to hide the quote. Which “Jews” are not being referred to.
Anytime you want to pick on Islam or the Quran or the Hadith–you will always find a reference back to the Torah or the Bible.
As pointed out earlier, believers in the Rapture are convinced that at the end of the world (which they think is imminent) all those people who are not Christians, or are even just nominal Christians and not the full-throttle version, are going to meet an extraordinarily sticky end, too gruesome for even a Quentin Tarantino or Mel Gibson film. But the role that Jews play in the rapture drama is curious and worth examining.
As Chris Hedges points out in his essay in the May 2005 issue of Harper’s Magazine, the Dominionist belief in the Rapture has a role for Jews that is not very appealing. They believe that “Israel must rule the Biblical land in order for Christ to return, though when he does, all Jews who do not convert to Christianity supposedly will be incinerated as the believers are lifted into heaven.”
Gene Lyons, in his November 2004 Harper’s Magazine review of the Left Behind novels points out that “Israeli Jews play a strange role in the Left Behind series, existing to be converted or slaughtered. As God’s chosen, they are to be protected from harm until the battle of Armageddon, at which point they must accept Jesus as the Messiah or die.”
So while many fundamentalist Christians speak of their “Judeo-Christian heritage,” one suspects that what they mean by that is not that Jews and Christians are equal partners but merely that the Old Testament is an important part of their religious framework.
In Revelation 20:1–3, 7–8, we read, “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. . . . And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth.”
You have the right to translate the verse any way you wish. However, as far as I can tell, every translation on this site seems to back up my translation. I suppose you can argue with them as well.
http://islamawakened.org/quran/5/51/default.htm
Besides, this same verse still says “surely Allah will not guide these unjust people.”
Please show me in the Bible where Adam, Abraham, Moses and David were Muslim. I suppose this is one of those little items the “people of the Book” managed to leave out.
Are you aware that the following verse is confirmed in both the Torah and the Christian scriptures: ” Neither
are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: ‘through Isaac your descendants will be named.’ ” (Romans 9:7, Genesis 21:12)
If the above verse is not true…then ALL the Hebrew and Christian scriptures are based upon a LIE. You see the Bible teaches that the lineage of King David all the way to the Messiah is through Isaac. There is no middle ground.
Yes, Martin Luther was very anti-semitic. He was wrong, along with many other well-known Christians over the centuries. However, this is what the Lord says about His people the Jews:
“For, behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, ‘when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.’ The Lord says, ‘I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers, and they shall possess it.’ ” (Jeremiah 30:3)
“Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day, and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The Lord of hosts is His name. ‘If this fixed order departs from before Me,’ declares the Lord, ‘Then the offspring of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.’ ” (Jeremiah 31:35-36)
Paul, who himself was a Jew, said: “For I do not want you brethern to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved…” (Romans 11: 25-26)
As you can see from just a few scriptures-of which there are many more- God has not made a declaration to kill the Jews; but because of their actions, it has brought about a partial hardening. But the promises of God are eternal as He has stated.
On the cross, Jesus said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34) This included the Jews.
Jesus made a startling statement not long before His crucifixion when He said: “From now on (Jews) you shall not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matthew 23:39) You see, Jesus is not coming back until the Jews want Him back and invite Him back. That means they must be saved in order for them to say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!”
“Now if their transgression be riches for the world and their failure be riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!” (Romans 11:12) Paul is speaking about the Jewish people here.
Yeshua is returning very soon to rule forever. He, alone is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There is no other.
Mr. “Pitts”: This is a political site. We will be glad to discuss religious issues with you http://www.musalmantimes.com which is the appropriate forum for religious discussions.
We have transferred your unpublished comments and published them on http://www.musalmantimes.com
We can continue the discussion there.
There are many version of the Bible.
We trust only authenticated versions of the Quran translated by known scholars–who have written commentaries explaining each and every verse.
Please go online and purchase the Quran translated by Mohammad Asad. That is the most authentic translation that we adhere to. Any and all translations floating on the internet may or may not be authentic. Some have been translated by enemies of Islam and others by untrustworthy sites.
If you wish to continue this religious discussion it will be on http://www.musalmantimes.com
Tom Pitts:
Your comments, References and clarification of 5:51 has been placed on http://www.MusalmanTimes.com if you care to continue the discussion.
tom pitts, the churches in muslim countries exist and they are build on the same place where mosque was for 600 years. the mosque was destroyed after the people were burned alive in it and church was build there to cover it up.
that happened in srebrenica in bosnia.
also mostar a city in bosnia has a huge church in muslim city and tower is 300 feet high and no one minds it, people live together although they killed us during the war.
if bosnians were to follow your example of revenge then no cristian should exist in balkan as whole.
you are there to condemn 3000 killed in WTC but you are blind to 200 000 muslims slain in bosnia.
you are blind to all of that.
that is not your problem.
well your way is the reason why those fools crashed into WTC.
they were angry by your judeo christian hypocrisy, when there is a 1000 muslims killed in palestine in couple of weeks no one cares but when there is an american soldier killed you are all weeping and cring about it.
you are also a hypocrite:
you dont use real translations and sources
you expect from muslims when someone hits them in the face to smile back but when muslim hits one of you then you declare war and take his country.
if your government insted of soldiers sends teachers and doctors and show that you are not there to kill them but help them there would be no terrorists, but when your troops in attempt to kill a terrorist kill someones family its kinda normal and expected that he would be pissed.
what about a man who slamed his plane in IRS building?
he is not a terrorist?
\and why isnt he clasified as such?
This is an unwise and insensitive act. If the Muslims want to “bridge” between religions and beliefs then respect the diversity of the city and let the ground be. Let the ground remain a memorial unto all who died and didn’t have a say. this is arrogant and another obvious insult against our country. Jesus never taught to hate unbelievers he came to die for all people and does not advocate violence which is in the Quaran. Well I will go there if it is built and witness to the muslims about a man called, “Jesus” the son of God or Alah.
The mosque already exists—they are building a community center in Lower Manhattan–nothing to do with the ground.
You can hide behid the disney version of Christianity. We can go into a long discusison of what Paul said and did–here are some quotes
http://rupeenews.com/2008/03/27/dutch-geert-wilders-should-ban-these-books-also/
You can surely read all the references to violence in the Bible.
More importantly, it is pedagogical to note what the followers have done recently:
Totol annhilation of Native populations in America, Australia, Latin America, new Zeland etc
Enslavement of millions of Africans by the European tribes
WW1 15 million killed
WW2 55 million
6 million Jews killed
Crusades 50 million killed
Colonialism 100 killed
Korea 3 million killed
Vietnam 2 million
I counted about 173 million murdered in genocides…..and you have the gall to thorw stones at others.
Please let us know the exact quote of the Quran which you have found and we can give you an explanation.
I dont get how people can be againts the Codoba house. It is a really good idea. And not all Muslims are terrorists!