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Washington wants to concentrate and does not want any distractions from it focus on Afghanistan. Everything else is a distraction. Delhi’s bickering is more than a distraction, it is a nuisance. Washington wants it stopped.
Why the US gave up India as a strategic partner
India’s worst nightmares come true: Long term strategic malaise
Why the US gave up India as a Strategic partner? The answer to this complex question can be summed up in a Clintonian cliche “its the economy stupid”. The Obama Administration has taken a page out of the Nixon playbook–build a relationship with China at the expense of India. The Bush administration had tries to build up India as a counterweight to China with a strategic partnership with India “as a natural ally”. This report in the New York Times is a poignant reminder of where the world of US-China relationship is headed. One never thought that we would see a US Secretary of State in Beijing literally begging the Chinese for “loans” (actually buying Treasury bonds). Its a new world–let the begging and groveling begin.
- Indo-Australian relationship hits new nadir
- Reversing Anti-Americanism in Pakistan: Parity, Nuclear Plants
- Pakistani National Command Authority
- Israeli drone technolgy to Pakistan via Italain, Chinese, Turkish firms
- After massive Foreign Policy failure Delhi needs new strategy
- Can Pakistan save the Karakorum Highway?
The United States called Monday on India to support rival Pakistan in rooting out extremism as Washington drafts a new “war on terror” strategy in South Asia.
- Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg also said the United States backed a global role for India and hailed New Delhi’s reconstruction assistance in Afghanistan, the source of unease in mutual neighbor Pakistan.
- Steinberg delivered the first substantive remarks on India by President Barack Obama‘s administration which is expected this week to unveil a new strategy on fighting Islamic extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
- “I think it will be important for India to make clear that as Pakistan takes steps to deal with extremists on its own territory that India will be supportive of that,” Steinberg said at the Brookings Institution.
- He said India should “look for ways to contribute to an overall environment which can then lead to further efforts to root out extremists.
- “There is obviously a complex history between the two countries but we will encourage India to see that it has a big stake in the efforts that we will be advocating to work both with Afghanistan and Pakistan,” he said.
- He did not go into specifics, but the US Defense Department has said that the Pakistan, suspicious of New Delhi, was sending troops to the Indian border that would be better used fighting extremists in areas bordering Afghanistan.
- Tensions between India and Pakistan shot up after Islamic militants went on a bloody three-day rampage in Mumbai in November, killing 165 people. Pakistan has conceded the attacks were partly planned by extremists on its soil.
- India and Pakistan, which both are nuclear armed, have fought three full-fledged wars since their separation at birth on independence from Britain in 1947. AFP. US asks India to support Pakistan on extremists
- A seminal article that describes the pickle Bharat finds itself in. Here is an excerpt from that article.
- If Delhi failed to anticipate this shift in Karzai’s order of priorities, it has only itself to blame. Thus, even in the face of impending realignments in the Afghan political and military situation that were obvious to most perceptive foreign observers, Delhi kept up the presence of a few thousands Indians in Afghanistan whose security becomes now almost entirely its responsibility to shoulder.
The malaise of the Bharati foreign policy in Afghanistan and beyond is defined below.
In retrospect, Delhi’s hare-brained idea of a US-led “quadripartite alliance” against China, the “Tibet card”, the dilution of a 2003 strategic understanding with Iran, neglect of the traditional friendship with Russia, the lukewarm attitude toward the SCO, exaggerated notions within the establishment regarding the US-India strategic partnership as an alternative to an independent foreign policy and diversified external relationships – all these appear now like dreadful pantomimes out of India’s foreign policy chronicle of recent years that Delhi would rather not think about.Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar.
- India using ‘aid’ to Kabul- to split Afghanistan
- Rebutting Mr. Sameer Lakwani on Afghanistan
- Musharraf is wrong, Sharif is right–for once
- Indian presence in Afghanistan is history!
- Plausible Deniability: ‘Rogue’ Pentagon Death Squad
- Ruling “India” by breaking it up into more pieces: Time Magazine
- Why India cannot attack Pakistan
- Bal Thackeray should be handed over to Pakistan to face trial
- India’s brilliant blunder in Afghanistan
The relationship between the “worlds largest democracies” has been sacrificed once again for the sake of the almighty Dollar and the other small irritant in West Asia–aka “defeat in Afghanistan”. India finds itself on the wrong side of history once again. For the first half century of its existence Bharat supported the Evil Empire. Then in the 80s when the USSR imploded and Yogoslavia imploded, the Indian policy makers worked overtime to come up with a strategy of survival on this third planet from the sun. Egged on by a Democratic Congress, Mr. Clinton encouraged India to explode a nuclear device. The Pokran explosions had a affect on India like the world has never seen. It allowed the youthful nation to being thinking big–beyond the confines of reality and beyond the realm of imagination.
After a decade of meager growth, Indian had not only proclaimed themselves a Superpower, but also convinced themselves of the death of Pakistan, the subservience of Bangladesh, the destruction of Lanka and the erosion of Nepal as a political entity. In this dream world, Bollywood stopped filming movies in India and brought world capitals, skyscrapers and modern amenities into the theatres and homes of ordinary Indians. Pretty soon a fog enveloped the nation–they actually started believing the Bollywood baloney and got swollen heads. Like the Michelins man full of air, the Superpower began to think of its borders beyond Uzbekistan and its Navy beyond the Pacific and Atlantic.
Now reality has burst the bubble–Bharat wracked by internal failure and external failure is licking its wounds. Bharat has to reinvent itself.
Why India cannot attack Pakistan. How could Bharat overcome its defeat. Bharat can do something spectacular so that world opinion changes. Perhaps a false flag attack on a Western capital attributable to the Lashkar, or the assassination of Hamid Karzai using RAW–which is very close to the Afghan president and has access to him. Other possibilities for Bharat may include some provocation to start a war with Pakistan. These are some of the possibilities that Delhi Analysts may be toying with. Rebutting Mr. Sameer Lakwani on Afghanistan
Bharat has to settle its border disputes with all its neighbors–possibly with some loss in ego and territory. Bharat has to fix it colossal cavities with the Dalits, Maoists and the Muslims. Delhi has reinvent itself and move away from sabotaging its neighbors–be it Lanka, Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal, China, Bangladesh or Pakistan. Delhi has to form a more perfect union–the current one is not working. Perhaps a looser confederation of fifty states than the current stifling 22 which don’t want to be part of “India”. Bharat has to use its influences in the world in a positive manner–not the detriment of other nations.
Bharat has tremendous potential–but it is a millstone on the neck of Asia–keeping all of South Asia as the only island of penury on the continent. Meagre progress in the last decade has not made it a superpower. Even China shuns that title. It is crazy–and Bharat is incapable of changing. Bharat has to get its citizens to come down to reality and Delhi has to manage expectations. Just because Farid Zakaria calls it great–doesn’t mean that the Gharibabad slums that engulf half of Mumbai have gone away. Bharat is the hungriest nation in South Asia and in the vicinity of Chad on the scale. It however just bought a rust bucket from Russia for more than $2 billion. Is this insanity or what?
Bharat needs a new direction. Is it up to the challenge?
Related articles
- Strategic Depth is Self-Defense for Pakistan (rupeenews.com)
- Giving America a Face Saving Exit out of Afghanistan (rupeenews.com)
- The Natural Silk Route flows from China to the rest of the world via Pakistan (rupeenews.com)
- Pakistan’s ‘Early War Offensive’ Strategy to thawart India’s new ‘Pivot and Strike’ corps (rupeenews.com)
- Haqqanis: ‘Much ado about nothing’? (rupeenews.com)
- ‘Mayor of Kabul’ in Delhi (rupeenews.com)
- Pakistan is used to Karzai’s empty and hollow pressures (lahoreledger.com)
- Karzai’s schizophonia: Now he begs Pakistan to arrange peace with Talibs (rupeenews.com)
- The other shoe falls (rupeenews.com)
- What’s in the Indo-Afghan agreement? Will the blackmail work? (rupeenews.com)
Because many of the things I’m about to say regarding India have already been beaten into the ground, I will try to keep this letter short. Perhaps before going on, I should describe India to you. India is xenophobic, snappish, and uncompromising. Furthermore, it yearns to promote a culture of dependency and failure. India used to be a major proponent of interdenominationalism. Nowadays, it’s putting all of its support behind defeatism. As they say, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. We must reverse the devolutionary course that India has set for us. As mentioned above, however, that is not enough. It is necessary to do more. It is necessary to supply the missing ingredient that could stop the worldwide slide into onanism. What I had wanted for this letter was to write an analysis of India’s warnings. Not an exhortation or a shrill denunciation, but an analysis. I hope I have succeeded at that.
Lat–perhaps a translation into English of your French words would help. Also can you defiine anonism?
We would like a detailed article from you–perhaps for publication.
Thanks for showing interest. The french translations are ‘the more things change, the more they stay the same’
Onanism means pulling out of world affairs.
I’ll be glad in publishing articles as im currently an out of writer. Is this website mainly indian bashing? Thats my speciality!!
please send the analysis. We are all waiting to improve ourselves.
Must be quite a pain when an ancient structure just refuses to die and keeps morphing. I would have been equally frustrated!!!
The analysis is this site and others like it. There are more than 4000 articles on it. We did write a letter titled” “The speech we are waiting for”–that should give you an inkling
http://rupeenews.com/2009/07/17/the-undelivered-indian-speech-the-world-is-waiting-for/
Not sure what your comment on “morphing ancient structures” is?
Lat. We cover a lot of issues. You can publish your articles by pasting them in “comments” and we will publish them.
We criticize all nations and politicians. Today Rupee News castigated two former Pakistani heads of states.
Google had failed me on “onanism”. Thanks for improving our vocabulary. We appreciate it.
Once we have a relationship–we can give you direct access for posting.
Where is this written? ‘morphing ancient structures’
Hey…welcome. You have found the right nest to keep you warm. Please bash India….no other nation needs bashing like that. How can they just keep going when all their sister civilizations have vanished….
thats is what ‘I’ wrote..the ancient structure meaning India…morphing meaning adapting to new environments…..
don’t worry….we are quite a pain in everybody’s back….we know that..unfortunately we cannot be wished away…..
Moin ansari saheb,
India supported the losing side in Cold War-I, it survived. It is supporting the losing side in Cold War-II, it may survive yet again, no?
Dev Kant
It may survive this time as fifty states. Time will tell. Bharat has made too many enemies, too many internal cavities, too much internal schisms, and too much hostility on its border, and does not have the leadership or the wherewithal to change things around.
The Ganges did not produce any activity in proto-history–the activity on the Ganges is all an AD phenomenon–thus it cannot realistically be called an ancient “civilization, just a recent event”–but you can and should be proud of the Chinese, Pakistani, Egyptian, Iraqi CIVILIZATIONS which existed thousands of years ago and today survive as nation states.
>.all their sister civilizations have vanished
Has the Chinese Civilization vanished? Oh! Really?
alexander saw some elephants and scurried back….them were of nanda dynasty and gangaridies. nandas were from pataliputra…two theories exist about gangaridies..one from payag area near allhabad..one from gangetic bengal.
seems the gangetic people had to come and drive the invaders away from holy pak land.
and btw..these were all in BC… along with 16 mahajanapadas…who existed from 1000 bc at the least……after villages have been built into city states.
about ganges…we wont really be sorry if you prove that ganges woke up to civilization in ADs..in that case just point out the place where Rg Vedic language became Sanskrit became Prakrit became Pali…all by the time of bUddha in 600 BC.
Maybe the aryans were siinging vedicx hymns in holy pak land………….sacrilege…blasphemy!!!!..Astagfirulla’h
Mr. Ansari: Can you please write an article about ancient Bharat that there is no ancient bharat there is only ancient Pakistan. Bharat history is just like a drop in ocean which started 60 years ago. Many bharatis lay claim to our ancestors where as Mr Dani rejected this theory and clearly said except certain parts of sind there was never any hindu influence in Pak.
Pakistan culture, geography, language and history is more closely related to central central asia he said. If you see a map of ECO countries you will notice all these countries are mountanious. More than 60% Pakistan’s area is mountainious. Urdu derives its grammar from Farsi, We all wear similar clothes and share same culture and religion. There is such a striking similarity that Pakistans in 2000BC spread from arabian sea to Himalayas and today is the same. Chinese travelers and merchant used to visit Pakistan one of the the famous travellor was Xuanzang and today is the same.
While 4 thousands years ago Pakistan was the first country to produce civil and hydraulic engineers, first to make drainage and sewerage system, street lighting system and urbanised cities, the bricks they manufactured are so solid they are still standing 5000 years later, seals and inscription have been found which tells it had high literacy rate where as gangnas were still hunter gatherers and living like monkeys and doing Kama sutra the proof is everywhere you go to temple.
Archeologist have discovered a long defensive wall in eastern side of mohen jo daro which clearly proves gangan barbarians were attacking civilised and peaceful people of Pakistan even 4000 years ago. Of course no one would want his ancestors to be those monkeys. So bharatis start claiming all the central asia and Indus valley was hindu.
The remains of 2nd century budhist monastery around mohenjodaro and from account of Xuanzang in 630 AD clearly shows state religion of Pakistan before the arrival of Islam was budhism and this is the time when the Hindu gupta empire and other hindus dominated Pak subcontinent. Throughout Pak history we have produced brave and honourable people.
When Pak was part of persian empire during 4th to 6th century BC a force made up of Pakistan was instrumental in conquering Greek. King Xerxes was so impresed by this valiancy that he formed a regular regiment of Indus.
It is worth saying Pakistan was the only place Alexander met the fiercest opposition where ever he went from his assault in Bajaur to Multan and none of rulers were hindus Whoever conquered Pak Subcontinent the resistance came from honourable Pakistanis not from hindus who were busy raping women even today.
Zain: This site has several dozen articles on the subject.
Begin with:
http://rupeenews.com/2007/11/27/the-geographic-two-nation-theory-pakistan-existed-5000-years-ago/
There was no “partition”
http://moinansari.wordpress.com/for-britain-india-included-somalia-iraq-burma-etc/
Why we Created Pakistan?
http://moinansari.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/why-we-created-pakistan-the-pakistan-ideology/
http://www.pakhistorian.com has been created to publish Pakistani History. Please visit it to see the very articles that you want to see. Also on the front page of Rupee News, you will see the major listings–several pages list the articles to make it easy for search.
Keep visiting pakistanledger.com and dawn.com.pk for republication of these articles
All these are sources for news.google.com so that these articles reach the widest possible audience.
The best way to search the site is to go to google.com and type in “Rupee News” Indus Valley Civilization or go to google.com and type in “Rupee News” Pakistani Civilization or go to Google.com and type in “Rupee News” Why we created Pakistan. Use the quotation marks as listed. You may search any subject. We have 4000 articles on this site which are republished all over the internet.
Hope this helps.
So this is what they teach you in the temples. Alexander had to more appetite for more conquest–actually had a rebellion on his hands.
Bud! You got the year right this time–but got the geography wrong.
300 BC is still not a “civilization”–a civilization of the Pakistani IVC is 3500 Bc to 1500 BC. The Pakistani Mehargarh civilization is 7000 BC
Also–beyond Hollywood, the fact remains that he met Porus on the river Jhelum–and never ventured beyond the Beas–sorry to say..but Alexander never crossed the current Paksitani border with Bharat.
Hellenistic Greece and Buddhism started when Alexander the Great conquered Asia Minor, the Achaemenid Empire and ancient Pakistan in 326 BCE, defeating Porus at the Battle of the Hydaspes (near modern-day Jhelum) and conquering much of the Punjab region. Alexander’s troops refused to go beyond the Beas River — which today runs along part of the Indo-Pakistan border — and he took most of his army southwest, adding nearly all of ancient Pakistan to his empire. Alexander created garrisons for his troops in his new territories, and founded several cities in the areas of the Oxus, Arachosia, and Bactria, and Macedonian/Greek settlements in Gandhara, such as Taxila, and Punjab. The regions included the Khyber Pass — a geographical passageway south of the Himalayas and the Hindu Kush mountains — and the Bolan Pass, on a trade route connecting Drangiana, Arachosia and other Persian and Central Asia areas to the lower Indus plain. It is through these regions that most of the interaction between South Asia and Central Asia took place, generating intense cultural exchange and trade.
The Greek empire included all of Pakistan–and that Hllenistic influence, and combination of Buddhist-Greek culture is called Gandhara (named after Sikandhar or Alexander). This culturally separated Pakistan from Bharat in 350 BC
Our original discussion was about the IVC–you are posting comments in the wrong section.
So lets see–you are claiming that Rig Vedas were around 600 BC. OK! Buddha was born in Nepal–all part of the Gangetic-plain–nothing to do with the IVC and Pakistan. The Rig Vedas are placed at certain time periods. Since Buddha never mentions them, there are doubts that they could have preceded him–
Rig Vedas mention oceans: The ‘Rig Veda’ itself has nearly 100 references to ocean (samudra), as well as dozens of references to ships. Vedic ancestors like Manu, Turvasha, Yadu and Bhujyu are flood figures, saved from across the sea. The Vedic God of the sea, Varuna, is the father of many Vedic seers and seer families like Vasishta, Agastya and the Bhrigu seers.
There is no evidence of Rig Vedas singers heading Eastwards—to Pakistani Gandhara Civlization.
OK Thanks, This site is a huge encyclopedia, never ends, still i have so much to learn from rupee news. SO many great articles in it. Erase the durand line is my favourite article ever i cant wait for the day when pakistan and afghanistan become one it was the dream of Quaide-Azam to join West pakistan with Afghanistan and East Pakistan with Malaysia and indonesia. I hope it happens very soon so that we can live in peace. It will be a great victory for Islam. We are slowly coming together. In Turkistan(central asia) more and more people are becoming more islamic leaving behind secularism. Mosques which were destroyed during soviet era are again being restored. Islam is fastest growing here down under(Australia) and in Europe. Turkey is lifting visa restrictions from many of its former territories and wants to establish caliphate within this decade.
Rupee News Zindabad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
If you need help on any topic go to google.com and type in “Rupee News” type topic here
For example if you need to search Afghanistan—go to google.com and type in “Rupee News” Afghanistan and should see a listing of all articles on Afghanistan published on Rupee News
For history go to http://www.pakhistorian.com
For Military strategy go to http://www.milstrategy.wordpress.com
For news you can go to news.gogle.com and site in site: Rupee News or news.gogle.com: http://www.rupeenews.com
For Pakistani news go to http://www.pakistanledger.com news.gogle.com: http://www.pakistanledger.com
For news about the region go to http://www.thedawn.com.pk aslo availble on
news.google.com: http://www.thedawn.com.pk
Why obfuscate?? If the 16 Mahajanpadas during the time of Buddha was speaking in Pali..then the language has travelled from Vedic to Sanskrit to Prakrit to Pali……4 generations…that would at least take a couple of thousand years. Unless the Rg Vedic guys oroginated in India they came from the west. They are also closely tied with Avestic religion and myths..so this clearly shows a division happening between like tribes in Central Asia. So a group of Rg Vedic nomads…rural and singing hymns..and destroying cities on the way..much like mongols in later age..were travelling east. Of course they crossed water bodies…..these were called sindhus…nobody said they mentioned ocean..unless Mr Ansari has a viking origination theory for the Aryans…..
They couldn’t have floown from Afganistan….so like it not not they happily sat and sang their Vedic hymns for centuries in the Pak lands!!! And Porus were a shaivite…read a little more catholically…he was not a buddhist!!! And Alexanader turned back not because of the soldiers rebellion…he answered Cletus and willynilly the soldiers followed him….when he reched beas…news reached him about two armies (actually greek histories only mention the gangaridies) assembled on the other shore with 5000 war elephants. That was the clinching argument.
Four generation take a thousand years? wow–they must live 200 years per generation!
It was not water bodies and it wasn’t “Sindhus”—Rig Veda over 70 times mentions sumandara–that means sea–nothing else–nothing more. Please do not give us interpretations–the word is very clear-and the word means the exact same as it always has. With all due apologies Rig Veda is not a great source of history–it is short and mentions a lot of things–they are hymns–like David’s Psalms–they cannot be used as historical evidence. No scripture should be used to discuss history.
Kindly let us know how great Bharat extended all the way up to Central Asia? Any proof or just temple indoctrination? Please do not use religious texts to prove anything, so that we do not have to refute scripture and hurt your feelings– or be accused of blasphemy–good thing we don’t have to apply for Qatari citizenship.
>>5000 war elephants. That was the clinching argument.
You hedged again–Porus was on Jhelum, not in the Gangetic plain. Whether he was green blue or yellow–331 BC and in the Gangetic plain–who cares about his shoe size or his religious affiliation! Our discussion was that the IVC was NOT Hindu–you keep bringing up much later stuff.
Plutarch and a host of authors from Vincent Smith, to G.H. Gense clearly state that Alexander invaded in 326 AD. King Ambhi, ruler of Taxila, surrendered his city, a notable center of Buddhist faith, to Alexander. Alexander fought an epic battle against Porus, in the Battle of Hydaspes in (326 BC). Alexander met and defeated the Porus king and released him because Porus asked to be treated like a king.
To repeat Alexander DEFEATED PORUS AND CAPTURED HIM. 5000 war elephants or not, Alexander had decided to leave the land of the Indus–because his soldiers would not support world conquest. Elephants didn’t scare him–his own illness compelled him to leave.
I am not willing to argue over facts–Sify news doesn’t change facts.
Hind and Sindh is a much later connotation–the Arbs called the areas under Qasim— Sindh, and the area beyond he Indus Hind.
Talking about US and Pakistan.
This website (along with other conspiracy nuts) maintain the 2008 Mumbai attacks was Indian planned and executed operation.
Well, in the below link you will go to a news article of a person pleading guilty in an US court (not Indian!!) of being responsible of murdering more then 160 innocent people in league with Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (a Pakistani group).
I’m sure you will have a spin on this fact too, it will be interesting to read it.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/18/headlley.mumbai.profile/index.html?hpt=C1
I meant four generation of language…not human live. Repeating again ….Vedic to Sanskrit to Prakrit to Pali by 600 BC….in Gangetic plain. So pls place Vedic language at ur suitable time.
As for Alexander….”When he (Alexander) moved forward with his forces certain men came to inform him that Porus, the king of the country, who was the nephew of that Porus whom he had defeated, had left his kingdom and fled to the nation of Gandaridai… He had obtained from Phegeus a description of the country beyond the Indus: First came a desert which it would take twelve days to traverse; beyond this was the river called the Ganges which had a width of thirty two stadia, and a greater depth than any other Indian river; beyond this again were situated the dominions of the nation of the Prasioi and the Gandaridai, whose king, Xandrammes, had an army of 20,000 horse 200,000 infantry, 2,000 chariots and 4,000 elephants trained and equipped for war”…. “Now this (Ganges) river, which is 30 stadia broad, flows from north to south, and empties its water into the ocean forming the eastern boundary of the Gandaridai, a nation which possesses the greatest number of elephants and the largest in size. “—-Diodorus Siculus (c. 90 BC– c. 30 BC). …
“Now this river, which at its source is 30 stadia broad, flows from north to south, and empties its waters into the ocean forming the eastern boundary of the Gangaridai, a nation which possesses a vast force of the largest-sized elephants. Owing to this, their country has never been conquered by any foreign king: for all other nations dread the overwhelming number and strength of these animals. [Thus Alexander the Macedonian, after conquering all Asia, did not make war upon the Gangaridai, as he did on all others; for when he had arrived with all his troops at the river Ganges, he abandoned as hopeless an invasion of the Gangaridai and India when he learned that they possessed four thousand elephants well trained and equipped for war. ]“—Megasthenes (c. 350 BC-290 BC). Quoted from the Epitome of Megasthenes, Indika.
some happy bengalis put the kingdom in bengal….but more likely it was nearer west in Prayag…where the confluence of Ganga and Jumna might have been construed as sea.
Btw…you shuld ban oliver stone’s alexander in pakistan. Ptolemy kept repeating that then they went to India…..oliver stone also said trhe same in his director’s cut interview!!! they should not commit such mistakes!!
Oliver Stone?! Surely you jest–certainly all your info is based on that paragon of Historical knowledge.
His JFK was almost “banned” in the US!!!
I guess in your toolkit “Gandhi” would depict the real life of Mohandas!!!
>>with all his troops at the river Ganges,
I rest my case–
After conquering ALL THE TERRITORY UP TO the Ganges–the Greeks were tired and left–
Please use your real name–Using pseudonyms destroys your credibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPy0fKSQXMU
Headley did not admit to all charges–only some–to avoid deportation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpJ73xIYES8&feature=fvw
Headley was a double agent of the CIA and had links to RAW–read the entire transcript of the trial. It further implicates Bharati officialdom. That is why the US won’t deport him!
Here is a story from Times of India on the same subject
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Headley-may-rat-on-Lashkar-aide-to-escape-death/articleshow/5695634.cms
WASHINGTON/NEW DELHI: Pakistani-American terror suspect David Coleman Headley aka Daood Gilani, accused of scouting targets that led to the Mumbai terrorist attack of 26/11, will plead guilty to charges, in what is seen by Indian officials as a deal with the US authorities which may help him dodge death sentence in exchange for information on fellow Lashkar terrorist Tahawwur Hussain Rana.
Headley, 49, an LeT operative who had pleaded not guilty to the 12-count superseding indictment filed against him on January 14, has moved for a “change of plea” hearing on Thursday before US district judge Harry Leinenweber, the court said in a one-paragraph filing.
It was not clear if Gilani, who changed his name to David Headley to facilitate entry to India, will plead guilty on all 12 counts. Six counts charge him with conspiracy to murder and maim, and another to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organisation. They carry a maximum sentence of death penalty.
Authorities in New Delhi were keeping their fingers crossed over the development. To many in India, Headley’s volte-face seemed to confirm the estimate that he was a double agent who turned rogue after being brainwashed by the jihadis he was asked to infiltrate. The history of deals Gilani cut with US authorities in the past, when the sentence he was serving for drug pedalling was reduced after he squealed on fellow traffickers, reinforced the suspicion.
A lighter sentence for him would validate the “double agent” assumption, besides possibly putting Headley out of reach of Indian agencies forever.
US law forbids access to convicts without their consent, while those released as part of plea bargain are also helped to disguise their real identity to protect them against any retaliation.
A senior source, however, played down the fear of Headley being allowed to get away this time, reasoning that the jihadi was trying to escape a death sentence by offering to provide information on Rana, his fellow accused. While Rana, who is from Chichawatni in Pakistan — a known Lashkar stronghold — is supposed to be deeply enmeshed into the web of jihadi terror, FBI so far does not have enough evidence on him. A testimony from Headley against his fellow accused who has refused to plead guilty can help CBI fill in crucial blanks.
“This (change of plea) is result of discussions with the government,” his lawyer John Theis told reporters.
Also see: IS THE US PROTECTING HEADLEY
http://qna.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/index.php?ref=permalinkquestion&question_id=290926
Hmm…nothing about they were afraid of the coming war with the ‘gangans’!!! so when the mighty indus fell the greeks shook in their shoes and turned tail from ganges.
Btw..the treturn was not smooth too..for chanakya, pity he was not buddhist, teamed up with candragupta and harrassed them and within a few years of alexander’s death had driven seleucus back almost to hindukush!! chap had to give his daughter in marriage to save his state…………
You can believe your temple indoctrination–has no relationship to history. Not even Bharati textbooks teach this version of events.
After Porus was defeated, there was no resistance to his army anywhere.
Chan Akya was in Taxila–what was he doing in the Ganges?
a brief example of whar chanakya was doing……not from ‘wiki’
“When Alexander wanted to continue to the nearby sea in April, the states in his rear revolted. The rebellion was inspired by the Brahmans, who seem to have had some kind of academy in a town called Harmatelia. The Macedonians killed many rebels; the Brahmans were hanged and king Musicanus, who had supported the revolt, was crucified. King Sambus escaped. The Brahman rebellion spread to the northern regions as well; the satrap of Gandara was killed, but eventually, the Macedonian garrison pacified the country.
…..”
Some more from standard western histories…again not Wiki…..giving some info on defeat of seleucus by chandragupta
“Alexander’s conquests had been spectacular, but he had not conquered India. On the contrary. Not even the Punjab and the Indus valley were safe possessions of his kingdom. Before Alexander had died in 323, he had redeployed nearly all his troops west of the Indus. For the first time, he had lost part of his empire. On the other hand, his invasion changed the course of Indian history. In Taxila, a young man named Chandragupta Maurya had seen the Macedonian army, and -believing that anything a European could do an Indian could do better- decided to train an army on a similar footing. In 321, he seized the throne of Magadha. The Mauryan empire was born.
Chandragupta, who belonged to the caste of warriors (kshatriya), was a pupil of a famous Brahman teacher, Kautilya. His coup was more than just the take-over of a kingdom, it was a religious counterrevolution, because the lawful kings of Magadha, the Nanda dynasty, had not belonged to the warrior caste. They had been mere commoners, said to be descendants of a barber. When Chandragupta claimed the throne, their heresy came to an end and orthodox Brahmanism was vindicated. Or so it seemed.
Once Chandragupta had conquered the Nanda throne, he invaded the Punjab. He was lucky. In 317, one of Alexander’s successors, Peithon, the satrap of Media, tried to subdue the leaders of the eastern provinces, who united against him. This civil war offered Chandragupta the opportunity he needed and he was able to capture Taxila, the capital of the Punjab.
When the situation in Alexander’s former kingdom had stabilized, one of his successors, Seleucus, tried to reconquer the eastern territories, but the war was inconclusive, and the Macedonian and Chandragupta signed a peace treaty. The latter recognized the Seleucid Empire and gave his new friend 500 elephants; Seleucus recognized the Mauryan empire and gave up the eastern territories, including Gandara and Arachosia (i.e., the country northeast of modern Qandahar). Finally, there was epigamia, which can mean that either the two dynasties intermarried, or the unions of Macedonians/Greeks with Indians were recognized.
Chandragupta had now united the Indus and Ganges valley – a formidable empire. There was a secret service, there were inspectors, there was a large army, and the capital at Patna became a beautiful city. His adviser Kautilya wrote a guide to statecraft which is known as Arthasastra. A Greek visitor, Megasthenes, gives a very strange description of the caste system (accepting seven instead of the usual four classes of people), and it is likely that he describes an attempted reform. This is certainly not impossible, because Chandragupta turned out to be not deeply attached to orthodox Brahmanism. According to the ancient scriptures of the Jainists, the king abdicated at the end of his life (in 297?) in favor of Bindusara, and converted to the Jaina faith; he died as an ascetic, having fasted to death. ..”
this from the plutrach himself….see how alexander was afraid of crossing the ganges….maybe plutarch was also temple indoctrinated!!!!!
“The battle with King Porus made the Macedonians very unwilling to advance farther into India. They had overcome Porus with the greatest difficulty, as he brought against them a force of twenty thousand infantry and two thousand cavalry, and now offered the most violent opposition to Alexander, who wished to cross the river Ganges. This river, they heard, was thirty-two furlongs wide and a hundred cubits deep, while its further banks were completely covered with armed men, horses and elephants, for it was said that the kings of the Gandaritæ and Præsiæ were awaiting his attack with an army of eighty thousand horsemen, two hundred thousand foot soldiers, eight thousand war chariots, and six thousand elephants; nor was this any exaggeration, for not long [Pg 364]afterwards Androkottus, the king of this country, presented five hundred elephants to Seleukus, and overran and subdued the whole of India with an army of six hundred thousand men.
Alexander at first retired to his tent in a rage, and shut himself up there, not feeling any gratitude to those who had prevented his crossing the Ganges, but regarding a retreat as an acknowledgment of defeat. However, after his friends had argued with him, and his soldiers had come to the door of his tent, begging him with tears in their eyes to go no farther, he relented, and gave orders for a retreat. He now contrived many ingenious devices to impress the natives, as, for instance, he caused arms, and bridles and mangers for horses to be made of much more than the usual size, and left them scattered about. He also set up altars, which even to the present day are reverenced by the kings of the Præsiæ, who cross the river to them, and offer sacrifice upon them in the Greek fashion”
and plutrach tells nothing of the illness that apparently drove alexander back from india…..and of which only mr ansari knows and nobody else…
Mr. Ansari: Dont fall in trap set by hindus. Hindus are not marshall race they cannot fight muslims or any other nations face to face unless they are sure of wining. King Porus was not hindu, even the Bharati infested wikipedia says he was not hindu, if he was hindu he would have run away or would have surrendered but he acted like a real brave and honourable Pakistani. Hindus can only do 2 things they can either stab us in the back while we are making peace deal. One famous hindu terrorist was Shivaji Bhosle which is also father of indian navy and mumbai airport named after him. When Aurenzeb’s representative General Afzal Khan invited Terrorist Shivaji for peace deal, Shivaji stabbed Afzal khan number of times when the latter was embracing him for Peace. The 2nd best thing they can do is to make deadly terrorist Forces like Mukti Bahini, LTTE, TTP, BLA, Shiv Sena, BJP and Jandulah. Please Remember no hindu king has ever ruled Pakistan when ever they have it is very short lived like Terrorist Ranjit singh rule was mere 30 years
Zain: YOU may enjoy these:
http://rupeenews.com/2009/07/12/pak-bharat-meet-will-singh-use-another-shivaji-dagger-during-embrace/
http://thedawn.com.pk/2009/06/18/manmoahan-singhs-shivaji-attack-during-an-embrace/
Ranjit Singh was Sikh–not Hindu
In this battle Alexander’s horse, Bucephalus, was wounded and died. Alexander had ridden Bucephalus into every one of his battles in Greece and Asia, so when it died, he was grief-stricken and founded a city in his horse’s name.
Alexander’s next goal was to reach the to travel south down the rivers Hydaspes and Indus so that they might reach the Ocean on the southern edge of the world. The army rode down the rivers on the rivers on rafts and stopped to attack and subdue villages along the way. During this trip, Alexander sought out the Indian philosophers, the Brahmins, who were famous for their wisdom, and debated them on philosophical issues. He became legendary for centuries in India for being both a wise philosopher and a fearless conqueror.
One of the villages in which the army stopped belonged to the Malli, who were said to be one of the most warlike of the Indian tribes. Alexander was wounded several times in this attack, most seriously when an arrow pierced his breastplate and his ribcage. The Macedonian officers rescued him in a narrow escape from the village. Alexander and his army reached the mouth of the Indus in July 325 BC and turned westward for home.
http://faq.macedonia.org/history/alexander.the.great.html
We can do this all day long–its not in my mind–its history! I have to dig up my greek books so get the real and complete quote from Plutarch–I don’t buy this partial quote
Please provide the source which shows Chan Akya on the Ganges river!
Chan Akya supposedly existed during the era 350–283 BCE
Alexander lived 356–323 BC–there is no overlap when Alexander was in South Asia
Now you are moving to a different era.
Your selective cut and paste does not change history..
From YOUR source
Alexander had decided to return, but how? The easiest route would be to go to the kingdom of Porus, Pauravas, to Taxila and Gandara; it would not be too difficult to reach Alexandria in the Caucasus, where his army had started its expedition to India. On the other hand, this would look as if the Macedonians returned after a defeat. So, the Macedonian supreme command decided that it was best to go to the Ocean, and to ship the army back to Persis and Babylonia.http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander14.html
Please do..its in third volume of Plutrach, Stewart and Long edition, 1892, London. Pages 300 to 378. The necessary paras are in page 364.
Subsequently it also says how Sandrocottas overran the entire country. More in Arrian..but i too will need to get that book.
Its very clear from Plutarch that Alexander actually considered it to be a defeat. So he deliberately took the other path so that it gives an impression of detour and exploration.
The journey as stated was not easy…there were enough resistance on the way..and alexander was wounded by arrows…presumably by a buddhist tribe(?)….so much for your zero resistance after Porus theory. And u can read Livius to see how thew Brahman’s resisted and fought and killed the satrap at Gandhar. The same source will also tell you how the Maurya’s overran the rump greek state in three years and captured Taxila.
will you please please please read some history??? Afzal Khan was a general of Adilshahi sultanate of Bijapur and had fought many wars against the mughals. He had nothing to do with Mughals or Aurangzeb.
Chan Akya supposedly existed during the era 350–283 BCE
Alexander lived 356–323 BC–there is no overlap when Alexander was in South Asia
Did not understand……what is preventing Alexander and Chanakya both from being at Taxila and Western Punjab in 326/325 BC?? Why are you saying there is no overlap???
Chanakya was from Taxila according to Jain and Pali sources. His main area of activity was Punjab during Alexander..but after Chandragupta moved to Pataliputra and overthrew the Nandas Chanakya moved with him as his prime minister.
Thanks, the article looks great will read it very soon,
This discussion is becoming inane–you wanted to say that Chan Akya was defeating Alexander’s successors forces–whihc was not possible.
Now you acknowledge that Chan Akaya was in Taxila not the Ganges.
My name is Adil, I’m not a Muslim. Adil is not restricted to Muslims. Even non-muslims can have this name. My last name is Shah, it is a very common last name in Western India (among non-muslims).
I don’t know the number of people who will read these words or what number will hear and heed my message. Regardless, it is imperative that as many people as possible learn that US and Pakistan’s long-term goals are the perfect delivery system for tactless, malignant behavior. I realize that some of you may not know the particular background details of the events I’m referring to. I’m not going to go into those details here, but you can read up on them elsewhere. US and Pakistan’s ability to capitalize on the economic chaos, racial tensions, and social discontent of the current historical moment can be explained in large part by the following. There’s something I’ve observed about US and Pakistan. Namely, it may not know how to spell “heterochromatization”, but it unmistakably knows how to make our lives a living hell. I’ve further observed that if I withheld my feelings on this matter, I’d be no less lecherous than US and Pakistan. That’s our situation today, in very rough outline. Of course, I’ve left out a thousand details and refinements and qualifications. I’ve not mentioned that US and Pakistan’s janissaries are just as bad as US and Pakistan is, if not worse. And I’ve ignored officialism altogether. I’ve simply pointed out one key fact: US and Pakistan’s cultists are currently in the streets, burning, robbing, and looting.
of course you want to drsaw this to a close as
- Chanakya were at Taxila and Ganges both at different phases of his life..just like chandragupta
- Its a fact that alexander’s successor forces were routed from Taxila by Chandragupta and Maurya dynasty. Your preferred sources like Livius say the same thing too
- did not understand what you meant by that is not possible…Chanakya was Chandragupta’s prime minister..so it is both of them who routed the greeks and fought seleucas to a stalemate…
- In fact chanakya survived Chandragupta and possibly played a hand in later sucessions also.
You need not read or look for things when truth becomes uncomfortable for you….please just end the discussion!! It will take sometime to make debate hold the last word in pakistan…why blame the generals who keep taking over and push the country to brink?
OK! I hear you–I have to validate.
Dirt Road—I remember reading about Adil Shahi a very long time ago.
OK!
Chandragupta (321-297) was in Taxila–not in the Ganges.
In 326 B.C. Alexander the Great entered the city with his armies and was greeted by King Ambhi. The Greeks lauded the city as the “greatest of all the cities” in the area. Alexander annexed the area as part of his enormous kingdom, but his weak sucessors were unable to hold on to the prize. In 300 B.C. Taxila was conquered by the Mauryan Empire of India under Chandragupta. Taxila served as the capital of India’s western province.
Ashoka (or Asoka), the great Indian king, ruled here as Governor under his father Bindusara. After the bloody conquest of Kalinga, which claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, Ashoka converted to Buddhism and as Emperor, constructed a large number of Buddhist monuments and monasteries throughout the empire, including some at Taxila. Dharmarajika Stupa is a particularly good example, where he enshrined relics of the historical Buddha.
Taxila’s position in on the open Asian steppes left it open to conquest. As the Mauryan empire disintegrated the Bactrian Greeks, the successors of Alexander, conquered the area in 190 B.C. Their king moved the city to a new location – Sirkap – which they believed would be more defensible. The new city was built with a fortified acropolis and a large defensive wall of coursed rubble.
The Bactrian kings kept a foothold on the area till about 90 B.C., when the Scythians overran the area and occupied the city. Just a century and a half later, the Kushans, originally from China’s Gansu province, invaded Ghandara (the name of the region around Taxila) and established a dynasty. The Kushan kings ruled well, supporting both the arts and Buddhism. Trade flourished with the Roman Empire, which led to almost unimaginable wealth. This era is justly described as Taxila’s golden age.
The downfall of the Kushan kings came in 230 A.D. when the Sassanian Emperor Shahpur annexed it as part of his Empire. The Sassanian rule as very short, however, and power soon passed to the Kidara Kushana, an offshoot of the dispossessed Kushan rulers. They established a strong dynasty that endured till the second half of the 5th century. Though not as magnificent as the Kushan rulers of the past, the Kidara Kushana founded many Buddhist monasteries and reinvigorated Taxila with wealth and magnificence.
Taxila’s downfall came in the 5th century A.D. when the White Hun hordes sacked the area, destroying monasteries and looting the city’s treasures. When the famous Chinese Pilgrim monk Hsuan Tsang visited the area in the 7th century (while looking for Buddhist Sutras), he described it by saying “monasteries are half ruined. The country is depopulated and now a dependency of Kashmir.”
The poor chap’s capital was in pataliputra… thats modern day Patna…which is on Ganges. Megasthenes visited Pataliputra.
Harappans and Rig Vedic Aryans were NOT Hindu !
There has been a strong campaign by Hindu fundamentalists and Indian
nationalists in trying to make wild hegemonic claims on ancient peoples
who have very little to do with them. Unfortunately, a few respected
scholars have also been manipulated into promoting their agendas and
vested interests. This article in particular covers the ancient peoples
of Indus Valley (Pakistan) called Harappans and Rigvedic Aryans (who
were the ancestors of most Pakistanis) with facts that prove they were
not Hindu debunking those Hindu/Indian claims. There is no evidence
whatsoever to suggest that Harappans and Rig Vedic Aryans were Hindu.
Harappans:
Not a single Hindu idol/deity/temple has been excavated at Indus sites.
Plus evidence shows that Harappans ate beef and buried their dead. This
is what the renowned historian John Keays states on the religion of
Harappans:
“The religion of Harappans is unknown. No site has certainly been
identified as a temple and most suppositions about sacrificial fires,
cult objects and deities rest on doubtful retrospective references from
Hindu practices of many centuries later. Such inferences may be as
futile as, say, looking to Islamic astronomy for an explanation of the
orientation of the pyramids. In short, these theories are all fanciful
and do not bear scrutiny.
“Depicted on some Harappan seals, is that of a big-nosed gentleman
wearing a horned head-dress who sits in the lotus position, an air of
abstraction and an audience of animals. He cannot be the early
manifestation of Lord Shiva as Pashupati, `Lord of the Beasts.’ Myth,
as has been noted, is subject to frequent revision. The chances of a
deity remaining closely associated with the specific powers – in this
case, fertility, asceticism, and familiarity with the animal kingdom -
for all of two thousand years must raise serious doubts, especially
since, during the interval, there is little evidence for the currency
of this myth. Rudra, a Vedic deity later identified with Shiva, is
indeed referred to as Pasupati because of his association with the
cattle, but asceticism and meditation were not Rudra’s specialties nor
is he usually credited with an empathy for animals other than kine.
More plausibly, it has been suggested that the Harappan figure’s
heavily horned headgear bespeaks a bull cult, to which numerous other
representations of bulls lend substance.
“Similar doubts surround the female terracotta figurines which are
often described as mother goddesses. Pop-eyed, bat-eared, belted and
sometime miniskirted, they are usually of crude workmanship and
grotesque mien. Only a dusty-eyed archaeologist could describe them as
`pleasing little things.’ The bat-ears, on closer inspection, appear to
be elaborate head dresses or hairstyles. If, as the prominent and
clumsily applied breasts suggest, they were fertility symbols, why
bother with millinery? Or indeed miniskirts?”
The Harappan seals depicting the sitting man/deity wearing horned
headdress (which Hindus claim as so called Shiva) is as follows:
Similar to this horned Harappan man/deity is the horned Celtic
Cernunnos that was worshipped in parts of ancient Europe:
On the other hand, Hinduism’s Shiva looks totally different:
So obviously Harappans did not worship Shiva, not even close! With
Hindu hegemonic claims would ancient Europeans also be considered Hindu
since the Celtic Cerrunos looks very similar to the horned Harappan
deity? By the way, it is the cow that’s worshipped in Hinduism whereas
bull has a minor role. Bull was much more sacred in ancient
Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures similar to the popular
Harappan bull.
This is further supported by Encyclopaedia Britannica:
“The Bull Cult was a prehistoric religious practice that originated in
the eastern Aegean Sea and extended from the Indus Valley of Pakistan
to the Danube River in eastern Europe …. The Bull Cult continued
into historic times and was particularly important in the Indus Valley
and on the Grecian island of Crete. In both places the bull’s ‘horns of
consecration’ were an important religious symbol.”
On the non-Hindu beliefs/customs of Harappans, Richard K. Hines states:
“Similar to the cultures of ancient Middle East, it appears that the
Indus religion recognized some type of life after death. Unlike Hindus
who practice cremation, Indus people carefully buried their dead in
wooded coffins with their heads facing north and the feet pointing
south. Included in the graves were pottery jars containing food and
weapons for use in the afterlife.”
And on beef as a common aspect of Harappan diet, Dr. Kamal Lodaya
states:
“Meat was an important part of Harappan diet which included beef,
mutton, fowl, fish, and other animals.”
Rig Vedic Aryans:
Now coming to the Aryans.. The concept of Aryan Race is nonsense
invented by the Nazis. But what is historically correct is that Aryans
were an ancient people who originally inhabited Central Asia and later
migrated southwards to the regions stretching from Iran to northwest
India. These early Aryans had a similar language, race, culture, and
religion with many variations. The Aryans of Iran were later influenced
by the Elamites and Babylonians. The Aryans of Pakistan were later
influenced by the Harappans. The Aryans of north India were later
influenced by the Dravidic-Mundic natives giving birth to Hinduism. Of
course in later centuries other peoples also invaded/migrated bringing
other influences/mixing.
The Aryans associated with the Rig Veda and Sapta Sindhu (i.e. today’s
Pakistan region) were definitely not Hindu because they did not follow
the Hindu caste system, they ate beef, sacrificed cows, culturally were
closer to Avestan Iranians, forbade idolatry, etc. Also, not a single
Hindu idol/temple has been excavated from the Rig Vedic Aryan period.
Here are some excerpts that support my views:
“The evidence of the Rig Veda shows that during the centuries when
the Aryans were occupying the Punjab and composing the hymns of the Rig
Veda, the north-west part of the subcontinent was culturally separate
from the rest of India. The closest cultural relations of the
Indo-Aryans at that period were with the Iranians, whose language and
sacred texts are preserved in the various works known as the Avesta, in
inscriptions in Old Persian, and in some other scattered documents. So
great is the amount of material common to the Rig Veda Aryans and the
Iranians that the books of the two peoples show common geographic names
as well as deities and ideas”. (Pakistan and Western Asia, By Prof.
Norman Brown)
According to A. L. Stravrianos on the non-Hindu nature of Rig Vedic
Aryans:
“The word Veda means knowledge. There were originally four Vedas, but
the most important is the Rigveda, which is also the oldest. The
Rigveda is a primary source for study of the early Aryans; it is in
essence a collection of 1028 hymns arranged in ten books. Per the
Vedas, Aryans worshiped elements of nature in personified forms, and
idolatry was forbidden.
“In Rig Veda, the gods of Dyaus is the same as the Greek Zeus (Roman
Jupiter), Mitra is the same as the Graeco-Roman Mithras, Ushas is the
same as the Greek Eos (Roman Aurora), and
Agni is the same as the Graeco-Roman Ignis.
“The image of the Aryans that emerges from Vedic literature is that of
a virile people, fond of war, drinking, chariot racing, and gambling.
Their god of war, Indra, was an ideal Aryan warrior: ‘he dashed into
battle joyously, wore golden armor, and was able to consume the flesh
of three hundred buffaloes and drink three lakes of liquor at one
time’.
“When they first arrived in the South Asia the Aryans were primarily
pastoralists. Their economic life centered around their cattle and
wealth was judged on the basis of the size of herds. As the newcomers
settled in fertile river valleys, they gradually shifted more to
agriculture. They lived in villages consisting of a number of related
families. Several villages comprised a clan, and several clans a tribe,
at the head of which was the king. The king’s authority depended on
his personal prowess and initiative, and was limited by the council of
nobles, and in some tribes by the freemen.
“The outstanding characteristics of this early Aryan society was its
basic difference from the later Hinduism. Cows were not worshipped but
eaten. Intoxicating spirits were not forsaken but joyously consumed.
There were classes but no castes, and the priests were subordinate to
the nobles rather than at the top of the social pyramid. In short,
Aryan society resembled much more the contemporary Indo-European
societies than it did Hinduism that was to develop in later centuries
in the Gangetic Valley.”
Further supports how a few Aryans who later migrated eastward towards
India slowly became Hindu because of Dravidic-Mundic influences:
“The castes were hardened by the time the Aryans occupied the middle
land i.e., the Gangetic Valley and distinguished themselves from their
brethern in Sind and the Punjab who were despised by them for not
observing the rules of caste …. and for their non-Brahmanical
character.” (Sindhi Culture, By U.T. Thakur)
“While some Aryans had by now expanded far into India, their old home
in the Punjab, Sind and the north-west was practically forgotten. Later
Vedic literature mentions it rarely, and then usually with
disparagement and contempt, as an impure land where sacrifices are not
performed.” (The Wonder that was India, By A.L. Bhasham)
This is further supported by Dr. Gurupdesh Singh:
“From geographical information in the RigVeda, the Vedic Period
(1500-500 BC) was confined to the northwest. The hymns composed by
Vedic mystics/poets of the northwest (Saptha Sindhva) tell that the
Vedic peoples worshipped non-Brahmanical Gods (Indra, Varuna, Mitra),
ate cows, elected their chiefs, drank liqor, considered the Punjab
rivers to be sacred, and refer to people living to the south in the
gangetic region as ‘Dasyas’! None of the gangetic Brahmanical gods (e.g
Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, etc.) are mentioned in RigVeda hyms nor
do they appear in connected Aryan Avestan texts and Hittite tablets.
Avestan terms for soldiers (‘rathaestar’) and citizens (‘vastriyo’) are
similar to Vedic-derived terms (kshatriyas, vasihyas) but the Avestan
term for priest (‘athravan’) is not even close to ‘Brahmanas’.
Moreover, central Gangetic religious texts like the Mahabharta and
VarnaAshramDharma of Manu call the Vedic Aryans in Saptha Sindhva
‘mlechas’, ‘sudras’ and ‘vratyas’; ‘forbid Brahmins’ from even visiting
the northwest country (‘Vahika-desa’); and depict dark Dravidian Gods
like Krishna fighting and defeating Vedic Aryan gods like Indra
(Mahabharta). Similarly, the RigVeda contains taboos and injunctions
against the ‘dasya-varta’ region to the south of Saptha Sindhva and
praises Indra (god of thunderbolt) for victories over ‘dasya-purahs’
(dasya cities).
“Both early RigVedic and gangetic Puranic sources clearly point to
ethnic, cultural and religious differences and a ‘clash of
civilizations and nations’ at the ganga indicating that the Vedic
people and culture of the northwest did not accept the gangetic
priests, their gods, shastras, religion, culture and Brahmanical caste
ideology. The eastern gangetic heartland is not only historically a
separate region, but geographically resides over 1500 miles to the
southeast of the Saptha Sindhva country. Uptil the advent of Mohammed
Ghori in the 13th century, the northwest was politically unified with
southasia only 92 years under the Mauryas (out of 27 centuries) since
the start of Saptha Sindhva’s Vedic period (1500 BC).
“A few Vedic tribes from Saptha Sindhva broke RigVedic norms and
migrated southward. These numerically outnumbered groups expanding into
the trans-gangetic region near the end of the Vedic period (8-6th
century BC) tried to use the indigenous Dravidian priesthood to
entrench themselves as the new ruling order. Within a few generations
of acquiring control over the foreign Gangasthan, the minority Vedic
tribes were usurped by the indigenous ‘borrowed’ priesthood; their
Aryan religion, gods and customs mostly deposed and supplanted with
indigenous gangetic gods and mythologies; and their new social order
(varna or color based) replaced with the pre-existing profession (jati)
based Brahmanical caste system (‘chatur-varna’ ). Through religious
manipulation and intrigue, the Vedic in-comers to Gangasthan were
usurped and made to surrender their political rule and soon
pigeon-holed into becoming the loyal obedient chownkidars of their
‘superior’ dravidic Brahmanas.”
Now coming to idolatry which is an integral part of Hinduism, there are
clear evidences of early Aryans rejecting it :
“They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in
ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the
uncreated, eternal prakrti-the material cause of the world-in place
of the All-pervading God, but those who worship visible things born of
the Prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in
place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words,
they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow,
and suffer terribly for a long time.”-Yajur Veda 40:9.
“The Formless Supreme Spirit that pervades the universe can have no
material representation, likeness or image.”-Yajur Veda 32:3.
Also, early Aryans had a Monist belief of worshipping elements of
nature (in non-idolatrous personified forms): “There is only one God,
worship Him” (Rig Veda, Vol. 6, Hymn 45 vs 16 ) and “Do not worship
any one beside Him” (Rig Veda Bk. 8, Hymn 1, Vs 1)
Then there are clear evidences in the Rig Veda that Aryans regularly
ate beef and sacrificed cows for religious purposes which are strictly
forbidden in Hinduism:
Hymn CLXIX of the Rig Veda says: “May the wind blow upon our cows with
healing; may they eat herbage … Like-colored various-hued or single-
colored whose names through sacrifice are known to Agni, Whom the
Angirases produced by Ferbvour – vouschsafe to these, Parjanya, great
protection. Those who have offered to the gods their bodies whose
varied forms are all well known to Soma” [The Rig Veda (RV), translated
by Ralph H. Griffith, New York, 1992, p. 647]. In the Rig Veda (RV:
VIII.43.11) Agni is described as “fed on ox and cow” suggesting that
cattle were sacrificed and roasted in fire.
Rigveda (10/85/13) declares, “On the occasion of a girl’s marriage
oxen and cows are slaughtered”, and Rigveda (6/17/1) states that
“Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo.”
Quoting from Rigveda, historian H. H Wilson writes, “the sacrifice
and consumption of horse and cow appears to have been common in the
early periods of the Aryan culture.”
Conclusion:
Finally, to claim that Hinduism has been evolving is simply a very weak
argument. Every religion is identified with a set of beliefs and
customs making it distinct and recognizable from others, including
Hinduism. Any people and religion can claim of their beliefs and
customs evolving, but when a change occurs it represents a new
identity. For example, Catholic Christianity is not the same religion
as ancient Roman Paganism. Therefore, since Harappan and Rig Vedic
Aryan religions were very different from Hinduism’s beliefs and
customs, they cannot be Hindu. Additionally, Harappans and Rig Vedic
Aryans of Indus/Pakistan region were geographically a distinct people
having no association with Gangetic Valley and the rest of most India
where Hinduism was born in later centuries, nor did they call
themselves Hindu.
In conclusion, all the evidence proves that Harappans and early Aryans
were not Hindu. The hegemonic and imperialistic Hindu fanatic and
Indian nationalist claims on them are simply false propaganda based on
myths and distorted history.
THE ORIGINS OF THE WORD HINDU
Hindu/India” (derived from ‘Sindhu’ in present day Pakistan –
btw the people of Sindhu continue to call themselves Sindhis,
not Hindus/Indians) was exclusively the non-religious geographic
foreign term for only Indus Valley (Pakistan) in ancient times.
It had nothing to do with the religion of Hinduism, nor the region
of present day India. This is proven in the Achaemenian inscriptions
(at Persepolis) and Greek texts (like those of Herodotus).
It was many centuries later that the term “Hind/India”
was used by some foreigners to further encompass much of South Asia,
again as a geographic term having no religious or national meaning.
The broadening of this term’s usage was no different than how the
word “Farangi” (derived from Franks/France) became the term for all
Europeans used by Middle Easterners (and South Asians) during the
Middle Ages due to French interaction (Crusaders) with them. Indus
Valley is located at the entering point (from west) into South Asia,
thus its geographic term was later used by a few foreign visitors
and invaders for the whole region. However, others used ‘Hind’ for
present day north India and ‘Sindh’ for present day Pakistan.
The bottomline is that the term/word “Hind/Hindu/India” was foreign
(for their own references), and had no religious or national meaning.
It was no different than how the words ‘Africa’ and ‘America’ were used
— i.e. foreign geographic terms encompassing many different
peoples/religions.
Not a single South Asian text/inscription (Vedic, Buddhist,
Brahmanic, etc.) mentions any word ‘Hindu/Hinduism/India’. It was only
with the arrival of Muslim invaders (Ghorids — 12th century AD)
that the foreign term ‘Hindu/Hindustan’ was imposed in South Asia to
denote its ruled subjects and lands. It was also starting from this
period that the word ‘Hindu’ started to gain a religious color. It was
easy for the new invaders to differentiate their religion from the
countless local ones with just a single word. Later on, with the
arrival of the British, their introduced term ‘Hinduism’ became widely
in use.
The foreign word ‘Hinduism’ simply became the term for many different
local religions of South Asia. Hinduism is a meaningless term in the
sense that it can include any thing or nothing. Contradictory or
opposing aspects are quite common in it, and as quoted by many
scholars it cannot be truly defined. Hinduism as a “civilization of
Hindus” is another hollow definition in the same way “Western
civilization” can include many different religions, peoples,
regions, etc. To say Hinduism has been evolving since ancient times
is a farce as the term/word itself has recent origins, and humans
and their ideas/beliefs have been evolving since time-immemorial all
over the world.
Present-day India was created one day after Pakistan’s creation …
that’s a fact! Pakistan was created by the Pakistanis themselves.
On the other hand, the British conquered the various
countries/peoples/kingdoms of South Asia and for the ease of
administration consolidated them into a single unit called India;
no country with such name or/and size existed before the British.
Upon the departure of British, their colonies were divided,
with present day India being a direct descendent of that British
creation. In the words of Winston Churchill, ‘India is no more a
country than the Equator’. It is no wonder there are many separatist
movements in India, having many distinct nations, races, languages,
cultures, religions, histories, etc.
Pakistan might be a few decades old, but the land and its people
have a history dating back to thousands of years. Indus Valley
Civilization is their heritage, the continuity is obvious in many
aspects of their culture and race, absorbing and/or adopting the
many different waves of migrants/invaders throughout the centuries.
Pakistan—the land and people of Indus directly inherits one of the
greatest ancient civilizations of the world, just the same way
present-day Iraq, Greece, and Egypt (all three countries also
recently created) inherits their own great ancient civilizations.
It is irrelevant that the descendents of Harappans are now
mostly Muslims! Descendents of ancient Mesopotamians and Egyptians
are also now mostly Muslims, descendents of ancients Greeks and
Romans are now mostly Christians! So what! And also, if lets say,
today’s Syrians are mostly Muslims, should Christians of today’s
Nigeria claim the heritage of Syria just because Syria was once
mostly Christian? No!
The region of Pakistan was never part of present day region of India
except for 100 years under the Mauryans, 522 years under the
Muslims, and 100 years under the British. These are historical facts
that no one can deny! Most Indians have no right to claim the
heritage of Pakistan (Indus Valley Civilization, Rig Vedic Aryans,
Gandharan Civilization, etc.) because the region was rarely part of
India, with its mostly distinct religion, culture, language, etc.
since ancient times! Why should a Tamil (Indian) claim the heritage
of a Punjabi (Pakistani)? Or why should a Vishnuvite of Bengal
(Indian) claim the heritage of Kalasha’s Kafirs of NWFP (Pakistanis)
or Buddhist ancestors of Sindhi Muslims (Pakistanis)? And let’s say,
even if the ancestor of a Pakistani was Shaivite, does that mean that
Shaivites of Indonesia can claim the heritage of Pakistan? Of course not!
On the meaning and origins of Hinduism:
“The term Hinduism … [ was ] introduced in about 1830 AD by British
writers. ” [Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519 ]
“The term Hindu was first imposed on south Asian nations by the Afghan
dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was neverused in south
Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found inearly (pre-12th
century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such aterm and concept has
no historical depth in any social, religious,ethnic or national sense
past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghorifor the first time named his
conquered subjects Hindus.” [G. Singh, Sakasthan and India, Toronto,
1999, p. 20]
“Hinduism, as a faith, is vague, amorphous, many-sided, all things to
all men. It is hardly possible to define it, or indeed to
saydefinitely whether it is a religion or not, in the usual sense
ofthe word.” [Jawaharlal Nehru, The Discovery of India, New
Delhi,1983, p.75]
“Frankly speaking, it is not possible to say definitely who is a Hindu
and what Hinduism is. These questions have been consideredagain and
again by eminent scholars, and so far no satisfactoryanswer has been
given.” [Swami Dharma Theertha, History of Hindu Imperialism, Madras,
1992, p. 178]
“Hinduism defies definition… It has no specific creed.” [Khushwant
Singh, India: An Introduction, New Delhi, 1990, p. 19]
“The more Hinduism is considered, the more difficult it becomes
todefine it in a single phrase… A Hindu may have any religiousbelief
or none.” [Percival Spear, India: A Modern History, Michigan,1961,
p.40]
Hindu/India” (derived from ‘Sindhu’ in present day Pakistan –
btw the people of Sindhu continue to call themselves Sindhis,
not Hindus/Indians) was exclusively the non-religious geographic
foreign term for only Indus Valley (Pakistan) in ancient times.
It had nothing to do with the religion of Hinduism, nor the region
of present day India. This is proven in the Achaemenian inscriptions
(at Persepolis) and Greek texts (like those of Herodotus).
It was many centuries later that the term “Hind/India”
was used by some foreigners to further encompass much of South Asia,
again as a geographic term having no religious or national meaning.
The broadening of this term’s usage was no different than how the
word “Farangi” (derived from Franks/France) became the term for all
Europeans used by Middle Easterners (and South Asians) during the
Middle Ages due to French interaction (Crusaders) with them. Indus
Valley is located at the entering point (from west) into South Asia,
thus its geographic term was later used by a few foreign visitors
and invaders for the whole region. However, others used ‘Hind’ for
present day north India and ‘Sindh’ for present day Pakistan.
The bottomline is that the term/word “Hind/Hindu/India” was foreign
(for their own references), and had no religious or national meaning.
It was no different than how the words ‘Africa’ and ‘America’ were used
— i.e. foreign geographic terms encompassing many different
peoples/religions.
Not a single South Asian text/inscription (Vedic, Buddhist,
Brahmanic, etc.) mentions any word ‘Hindu/Hinduism/India’. It was only
with the arrival of Muslim invaders (Ghorids — 12th century AD)
that the foreign term ‘Hindu/Hindustan’ was imposed in South Asia to
denote its ruled subjects and lands. It was also starting from this
period that the word ‘Hindu’ started to gain a religious color. It was
easy for the new invaders to differentiate their religion from the
countless local ones with just a single word. Later on, with the
arrival of the British, their introduced term ‘Hinduism’ became widely
in use.
The foreign word ‘Hinduism’ simply became the term for many different
local religions of South Asia. Hinduism is a meaningless term in the
sense that it can include any thing or nothing. Contradictory or
opposing aspects are quite common in it, and as quoted by many
scholars it cannot be truly defined. Hinduism as a “civilization of
Hindus” is another hollow definition in the same way “Western
civilization” can include many different religions, peoples,
regions, etc. To say Hinduism has been evolving since ancient times
is a farce as the term/word itself has recent origins, and humans
and their ideas/beliefs have been evolving since time-immemorial all
over the world.
Present-day India was created one day after Pakistan’s creation …
that’s a fact! Pakistan was created by the Pakistanis themselves.
On the other hand, the British conquered the various
countries/peoples/kingdoms of South Asia and for the ease of
administration consolidated them into a single unit called India;
no country with such name or/and size existed before the British.
Upon the departure of British, their colonies were divided,
with present day India being a direct descendent of that British
creation. In the words of Winston Churchill, ‘India is no more a
country than the Equator’. It is no wonder there are many separatist
movements in India, having many distinct nations, races, languages,
cultures, religions, histories, etc.
Pakistan might be a few decades old, but the land and its people
have a history dating back to thousands of years. Indus Valley
Civilization is their heritage, the continuity is obvious in many
aspects of their culture and race, absorbing and/or adopting the
many different waves of migrants/invaders throughout the centuries.
Pakistan—the land and people of Indus directly inherits one of the
greatest ancient civilizations of the world, just the same way
present-day Iraq, Greece, and Egypt (all three countries also
recently created) inherits their own great ancient civilizations.
It is irrelevant that the descendents of Harappans are now
mostly Muslims! Descendents of ancient Mesopotamians and Egyptians
are also now mostly Muslims, descendents of ancients Greeks and
Romans are now mostly Christians! So what! And also, if lets say,
today’s Syrians are mostly Muslims, should Christians of today’s
Nigeria claim the heritage of Syria just because Syria was once
mostly Christian? No!
The region of Pakistan was never part of present day region of India
except for 100 years under the Mauryans, 522 years under the
Muslims, and 100 years under the British. These are historical facts
that no one can deny! Most Indians have no right to claim the
heritage of Pakistan (Indus Valley Civilization, Rig Vedic Aryans,
Gandharan Civilization, etc.) because the region was rarely part of
India, with its mostly distinct religion, culture, language, etc.
since ancient times! Why should a Tamil (Indian) claim the heritage
of a Punjabi (Pakistani)? Or why should a Vishnuvite of Bengal
(Indian) claim the heritage of Kalasha’s Kafirs of NWFP (Pakistanis)
or Buddhist ancestors of Sindhi Muslims (Pakistanis)? And let’s say,
even if the ancestor of a Pakistani was Shaivite, does that mean that
Shaivites of Indonesia can claim the heritage of Pakistan? Of course not!
Guns? Absence of religion? Lack of self-esteem? Poor parenting? The entertainment industry? Who’s to blame for Alexander The Great’s uncouth half-measures? Numerous professionals (and not-so-professionals) have speculated and mulled, publicly and privately, over what has caused Alexander to feed blind hatred. Before I launch into my main topic, I want to make a few matters crystal-clear: (1) He always tries to rationalize his taradiddles with compelling gobbledegook about some “greater good”, and (2) as a result of that, unlike him, I stand for progression, not regression. Now that you know where I stand on those issues, I can safely say that he is an opportunist. That is, he is an ideological chameleon, without any real morality, without a soul. I have just enough stomach left to address one last instance of Alexander The Great’s vindictive imbecility: He sincerely believes that ignominious drug addicts have dramatically lower incidences of cancer, heart attacks, heart disease, and many other illnesses than the rest of us.
Will get back on this….good to battle on a new front. But pantheistic religions do not have specific names as they swallow and grow….as with Hellenistic, Roman or egyptian religions.
These are mlostly Pagan ideas…in sync with the times, environmemt and culture. Often the philosophies grow much after the religious protocols.
The strength of these lie in their adaptability and easy acceptance of facts.
Anyway..will come back on this.
This J Lat chap is great. How do they all gravitate to Mr Moin Ansari? May be some introspection required here?? :-)
Sorry–perhaps people want to stay away from dirt!!–nothing personal–maybe a reinvention and change in deodorant would help!
you said turkey wants to establish caliphare within this decade?? please don’t give poor chaps a heart attack..they are trying their best to get into the EU. caliphate??? the army will just take over and sit on everybody’s head!!! why dont you visir turkey and see how it is there??
Dirt Road:
Here you go again–displaying your temple indoctrination. We used the term ECO–for which Turkey are Pakistan are working fevereshly.
Please read the statements by Erdogan, and Gul–they belong to a very conservative Islamic party–something like the Jamat e Islami. I know your blinders cannot differentiate between the Jamaat and the Lashkar, but there is a huge difference. The Jamat has a parliamentary presence, where the Lashkar does not.
Turkey has a look East policy–because realistically they have given up on joining the EU. They will never get a seat in the EU–it it does, Eurabia will be intolerable to France, Holland and Cyprus.
in fact Afzul Khan once came very close to defeating and killing Aurangzeb at Khadki, (now called Aurangabad.) He had a mandate to crush the newly found Maratha Empire by capturing Shivaji on behalf of Adilshah, not Mughals. Shivaji brilliantly played the Mughal and Adilshahi rivalry to establish his own empire, which at it’s zenith included Atak (Now in Pakistan)
The reason for overthrowing the Magadh was not caste. Chnakya had advocated that the Magadh king sends his troops to defeat Alexander at Sindhu insted of waiting for his attack on Magadh. When his recommendation wasn’t upheld, he architected the coope with the help of his deciple Chandragupta and overthrew the Greek invasion beyond Hindukush.
Well, i have seen some articles. I am conviced that there are about 4 articles that keep on comming in diffrent forms on this site. Running out of content Mr. Ansari?
Well, I believe that India did not exist 5000 yrs back. But I belive that neither did pakistan.
Temple indoctrination will surely make some blind and deaf.
Inability to read is a serious handicap? Did you look at the map of the IVC?
It may dent your conviction.
Browsing the articles? You may want to read them–and you will find most of them very unique.
Shivaji was a terrorist! He waged guerilla warfare and killed using sniper attack tactics.
His outfit was similar to the outfit of the LTTE or the Bharati sponsored TTP.
well, you calling him terrorist doesn’t change the fact that he was the founder of great Maratha empire that ended the Mughal rule over India (today’s Pakistan included) and formed the basis and inspiration for the freedom stuggle of 1857. which was planned and executed by Maratha premiers Nanasaheb Peshwa and Tantiya Tope. And this was a Secular empire just like that of what shivaji admired , Akabar the great. It had many muslim officers.
What point in reading all the rubbish you are repeatedly posting? You can create 4000000000000 article and still say the same rubbish all over again and again. So do you expect everyone to read 4000000000000 pages trash to be called enlightened?
I did look at the map. and yes it’s not a map of Pakistan. It’s a Map of IVC not Pakistan. IVC wasn’t Islamic Republic of Pakistn which was created just like Secular and Democratic Republic of India was created in August 1947.
The only diffrence is that this same republic continues to thive in india based on the constitution adopted in 1950. I don’t know what happened to Islamic Republic of Pakistan found in 1947. You might be knowing probably where it’s heading.
Yeah we are a union of states. So we would survive in the form of 50 states and one Nation, come what may. And not only survive, we will prosper and lead a better life for our future generations.
I don’t know about Pakistan. I don’t know if an average Pakistani is as confident in his future as an average Indian is. You know it best. So I leave it to you to decide where you concentrate your energies. If you choose to be engaged in hate campagin about india it’s your choice. All the very best
Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do? Careerism resonates with the body’s natural alpha waves? All minorities are poor, stupid ghetto trash? These are all claims made recently by Delhi.
For practical reasons, I have to confine my discussion to areas that have received insufficient public attention or in which I have something new to say. Delhi’s dupes actually believe the bunkum they’re always mouthing.
That’s because these types of witless prophets of escapism are idealistic, have no sense of history or human nature, and they think that what they’re doing will somehow improve the world sometime soon. In reality, of course, if you read Delhi’s writings while mentally out of focus, you may get the sense that Delhi understands the difference between civilization and savagery.
But if you read its writings while mentally in focus and weigh each point carefully, it’s clear that it is the picture of the insane person on the street, babbling to a tree, a wall, or a cloud, which cannot and does not respond to its complaints.
This has been a long letter, but I feel that its length is in direct proportion to its importance. Why? Because Delhi’s ignorance is encyclopedic.
We present unbiased news and views. We present authenticated and referenced news and views.
We criticize all countries of the world–China, Saudi Arabia, Holland, the UK, the US, Bangladesh, Lanka and Pakistan. Why should Bharat be an exception?
Bharati news sources never say anything positive about Pakistan, Muslims or the Islamic world. We appreciate all cultures, races and religions.
We will continue to speak up against the slavery of the Dalits, the wrong policies which supported the LTTE terrorists, the ill conceived adventures into Sikkim, and Bhutan, and the support of terrorism in Pakistan.
You may not like what we say. Certainly we don’t like what you say. You proudly claim that you are from a “democratic” state–however you are totally unable to comprehend the other point of view. Your ‘democratic’ credentials are tainted–when you reject all other opinions and have nothing but contempt for other people, their systems and this aspirations.
Your derogatory comments about all your neighbors do not bode well for the future of the country called “Bharat”. The future of the people who want 50 states–all of them asking for independence from Delhi is the future of Hindustan. The democratic veneer of the conglomeration of 560 states are tarnished by the happenings of Maharashtra which wants to implement Ram Raj, and the genocide of Muslims in Gujarat, and the enslavement of 450 million Dalits.
Inability to comprehend the profoundness of the Pakistani state is a disease residing in the Bharati mentality. Facing authenticated graphical evidence of the political unity of the lands on the Indus–you begin to retort and bank on your security blanket which presumes that all states surrounding Delhi are temporary. This is the virus introduced into the Bharati mind–hence Bharats perpetual wars with all her neighbors.
These wars are responsible for 40% of Bharati land in the hands of the Naxals–Kashmir in open revolt, Assam wanting secession, Nagaland asking for their rights—the entire country of Hindustan wracked by as many insurrections as there are states–the future is fifty states–each independent, each separate from Delhi.
The Pakistani civilization is 7000 year old
He is a terrorist which harassed the Mughal Empire–weakening it allowing the British to invade the lands.
The Marhatta compliance to the East Indian COmpany against Tipu Sultan and Hyder Ali is matter of historical record.
If the Marhattas had joined Mysore, and the Nizam, there would have been no East India Company in South Asia.
The Marhattas palyed a horrid game of cat and mouse, cunning and craftiness-which led to 200 years of colonialism
I appreciate ur comment.
Through this letter, I intend to serve as a facilitator who will help you draw your own conclusions about The Hindus. That is, I’ll be your “guide on the side”, not a “sage on the stage”. With my assistance, you’ll soon gain a deep understanding of how The Hindus’s every utterance drips with know-it-all condescension and sarcasm. When writing this letter, I had originally intended to segregate the pure errors of fact in The Hindus’s comments from the assertions of questionable judgment where there could be room for dispute. I eventually decided against that approach because not only does The Hindus create a climate of intimidation, but it then commands its idolators, “Go, and do thou likewise.” The Hindus says that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups. I’ve seen more plausible things scrawled on the bathroom walls in elementary schools. One final point: Even The Hindus’s horoscope says it’s avaricious.
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Excellent. Why only neighbouring countries. Its own country is one big chaotic mess. I want China-America-Israel-Britain-ISLAM-Europe-Australia combination to restore order & governance within India.
Once Faizal Nazir writing here made the following profound observations about India. I completely agree with him.
“…It only increases my belief that Indians are an artificial nation-state, only glued together with excessive and brutal use of force. Such societies do not live long. If Hindus have been ruled by outsiders for centuries upon centuries upon centuries, there must be a hell of a reason for that. There is some self-destructive mechanism built-in and severe deformation in the core of Hindu society. To me, the culprit is the universally disgraceful Hindu caste system. Societies with poverty can survive but the ones with injustice can never….”.
There is more information in the comments than in article itself.i need a weekend to read all carefully.
1. Propaganda by pakistan is lame. Muslims faith is beaten by Indian patriotism. Kashmir is owned by Hindu Armed forces.
2. You guys talks about poverty in India. It would be good to know % of poor is same in pakistan.
3. You believers energy is just a waste. Pakistan can’t say “No” to the US. Pakistan couldn’t save osama.
4. Even believers can’t win against Israel.
5. Pakistan can’t award bounty on head of maker of anti-islam movie. The US awarded bounty on the head of hafeez saeed, enemy of India
I really enjoy all these facts. You muslim brothers keep digging 5000 years old history of back.