Dr. Ahmad Hasan Dani, may God Bless his soul (he died a few weeks ago) was one of the most talented and brilliant archeologists in the world. He knew the Indus Valley like no one before him. Free of colonial thought, and liberated from the vestige of the British Raj, Dr. Dani spent his lifetime writing the correct version of history.
The Geographical Two Nation Theory: Pakistan existed 5000 years ago as the “Indus Valley Civilization”
This maps looks like the map of Pakistan. It is. It is the map of Indu Valley 3500 years ago. This is the map of the Indus Valley Civilization which existed 5000 years ago on the banks of the Indus. This represent the Indus Pakistanis (see Indus Saga by Ahtizaz Ahsan, and Professor Dani's prolific writings). The IVC was not Hindu. They buried their dead, wrote a non-Sanskirt pictographic language, ate beef, did not know the horse, wre not vegetarian, wrote right to left, did not know the horse (No Arjun), and did not worship any of the Hindu pantheon (Arjun, Agni, Mithra, Nag). This map shows the Indus Valley Civilization which traded with the Muslim Moses in Mesopotamia. Pakistan is the latst Muslim incarnation of the IVC. The Indus people banded together to live togther as they had lived together for thousands of years. This was the contract once the Britain left. Bharat never existed as a united country--WHAT PARTITION?. This map shows the later stages of the IVC in Lothala and part sof Gujerat. The original IVC thrived only on the banks of the Indus (http://moinansari.wordpress.com/files/2008/01/pakistan-existed-5000-years-ago-as-ivc.gif)
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Please visit http://www.pakhistorian.com for History of Pakistan
The left-leaning Indian news magazine Frontline carried Farmer’s and Witzel’s article in a cover story titled “Horseplay in Harappa – In the ‘Piltdown Horse’ hoax, Hindutva propagandists make a little Sanskrit go a long way”. The article debunked sensational claims in 1999 that the Indus script had been “deciphered”. Indus Valley code is cracked – maybeby N S Rajaram and Natwar Jha. Indus Valley code is cracked – maybe By Raja Murthy
Samadhi Ranjit Singh, Lahore
Jewellery from Sirkap, Taxila
History Through The Centuries:Text Contributed by Professor Dr. Ahmad Hasan Dani
Pakistan as it existed 5000 years ago
Pakistan, the Indus land, is the child of the Indus in the same way as Egypt is the gift of Nile. The Indus has provided unity, fertility, communication, direction and the entire landscape to the country. Its location marks it as a great divide as well as a link between central Asia and south Asia. But the historical movements of the people from Central Asia and South Asia have given to it a character of its own and have established closer relation between the people of Pakistan and those of Central Asia in the field of culture, language, literature, food, dress, furniture and folklore. However, it is the Arabian Sea that has opened the doors for journey beyond to the Arabian world through the Gulf and Red Sea right into the ancient civilization of Mesopotamia and Egypt. It is this Sea voyage that gave to the Indus Land its earliest name of Meluhha because the Indus people were characterized as Malahha (Sailor) in the Babylonian records. It is for this reason that the oldest civilization of this land, called Indus Civilization, had unbreakable bonds of culture and trade link with the Gulf States of Dubai, Abu Dabi, Sharja, Qatter, Bahrain and right from Oman to Kuwait.
St. Patrick Church, Karachi
Quaid’s Tomb, Karachi
While a Meluhhan village sprang up in ancient Mesopotamia (Modern Iraq), the Indus seals, painted pottery, lapis lazuli and many other items were exchanged for copper, tin and several other objects from Oman and Gulf States. It is to facilitate this trade that the Indus writing was evolved in the same proto-symbolic style as the contemporary cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia. Much later in history it is the pursuit of this seaward trade that introduced Islam from Arabia in to Pakistan. The twin foundations of cultural link have helped build the stable edifice of Islamic civilization in this country. All these cultural developments are writ-large in the personality of the people of Pakistan.
Lahore Fort
Hiran Minar
As in many other countries of the world, man in Pakistan began with the technology of working on old stone by using quartzite and flint found in Rohri hills and stone pebbles found in the Soan Valley. The oldest stone tool in the world, going back to 2.2 million years old, has been found at Rabat, about fifteen miles away from Rawalpindi, thus breaking the African record. The largest hand Axe has also been found in the Soan Valley. Although man is still hiding in some corner, the Soan pebble stone age culture show a link with the Hissar Culture in Central Asia. Later about fifty thousand B.C. at Sangho Cave in Mardan District man improved his technology for working on Quartz in order to chase the animal in closed valleys.
Chaukundi Tomb
Punja Sahib, Hasanabdal
Still later he worked on micro quartz and chert or flint and produced arrows, knives, scrapers and blades and hunted the feeling deer and ibexes with bow and arrow. Such an hunting scene is well illustrated on several rock carvings, particularly near Chilas in the Northern Areas of Pakistan along the Karakorum Highway – a style of rock art so well known in the trans- Pamir region of Tajikistan and Kirghizstan. However, the first settled life began in the eight millennium B.C. when the first village was found at Mehergarh in the Sibi districts of Balochistan comparable with the earliest villages of Jericho in Palestine and Jarmo in Iraq.
Seated Buddha in Dhayana Mudra Pose,
Julian Monastery Taxila
Badshahi Mosque
Here their mud houses have been excavated and agricultural land known for the cultivation of maize and wheat. Man began to live together in settled social life and used polished stone tools, made pots and pans, beads and other ornaments. His taste for decoration developed and he began to paint his vessels, jars, bowls, drinking glasses, dishes and plates. It was now that he discovered the advantage of using metals for his tools and other objects of daily use. For the first time in seventh millennium B.C. he learnt to use bronze. From the first revolution in his social, cultural and economic life. He established trade relation with the people of Turkamenistan, Uzbekistan, Iran and other Arab world.
He not only specialized in painting different designs on pottery, made varieties of pots and used cotton and wool but also made terracotta figurines and imported precious stones from Afghanistan and Central Asia. This early bronze age culture spread out in the country side of Sindh, Balochistan, Punjab and North West Frontier Province.
Faisal Mosque, Islamabad
And this early beginning led to the concentration of population into small towns. Such as Kot-Diji in Sindh and Rehman Dheri in Dera Ismail Khan District. It is this social and Cultural change that led to the rise of the famous cities of Mohenjodaro and Harappra, the largest concentration of population including artisans, craftsman, businessmen and rulers. This culminated in the peak of the Indus Civilization, which was primarily based on intensive irrigated land agriculture and overseas trade and contact with Iran, Gulf States, Mesopotamia and Egypt. Dams were built for storing river water, land was Cultivated by means of bullock- harnessed plough – a system that still prevails in Pakistan, granaries for food storage were built, furnace were used for controlling temperature for making red pottery and various kinds of ornaments, beads of carnelian, agate and terracotta were pierced through, and above all they traded their finished goods with Central Asia and Arab world. It is these trade divided that enriched the urban populace who developed a new sense of moral honesty, discipline and cleanliness, and above all a social stratification in which the priests and the mercantile class dominated the society.
Votive Stupa from Jaulian, Taxila
Jewellery from Sirkap, Taxila
The picture of high civilization can be gathered only by looking at the city of Mohenjodaro, the first planned city in the world, in which streets are aligned straight, parallels to each other, with a cross streets cutting at right angles. It is through these wide streets that wheeled carriages, drawn by bulls or asses, moved about, carrying well-adorned persons seated on them, appreciating the closely aligned houses, made of pucca bricks, all running straight along the streets. And then through the middle of the streets ran stone dressed drains covered with stone slabs – a practice of keeping the streets clean from polluted water, for the first time seen in the world.
The Indus Civilization is the first literate Civilization of the subcontinent. The cities were centres of art and craft. Where the artisan produced several kinds of goods that were exported to other countries. Sailing boats sailed out from Mohenjodaro and anchored in the port of the Gulf, which region was perhaps known as Dilmin. However, it was the city administration that managed the urban life in strict discipline and controlled the trade in their hands. The discipline is derived from the strict practice of meditation (yoga) that was practiced by the elite of the city, who appear to have trimmed their beard and hair combed and tied with golden fillets. The body was covered with a shawl bearing trefoil designs on them. Such a noble man with a sharp nose and long wish eyes shows a contrast with a bronze figurine of a dancing and singing girl, plying music with her fully bang led hand, as we find today with the Cholistan ladies having bangled hands.
Priest King from Mohenjodaro
Fasting Buddha
Obviously there were distinctive ethnic groups of people in Mohenjodaro but the dominant class of rulers and merchants appear to be distinctive from the rest of the population. It is these literate people who inter- acted with the Arabian people and continued to maintain strict discipline in the society. It is they who developed astronomy, mathematics, and science in the country along with numerical symbols, weights and measures but they thoroughly intermixed in the society and also believed in the local cult of tree and tree deities and animal totems. The most prominent animals as attested in the seals are bull, buffalo, elephant, tiger, rhinoceros, alligator and deer and ibexes. However, Mesopotamian influences are seen in the figures of Gilgamash, Enkidu, joint statue of the bull and man and other animals with several heads and bodies.
However, the unique local concept is that of highly meditative man, seated in his heels, with three or four heads, and combining in himself the power to control the animals probably with a crown of horns or some times a tree overhead. It is this supreme deity, depicted on Seals, that draws the serpent worshippers and overpowers the animals. A part from these there was no concept of nature worship as we find in the Vedas of the Aryans. The ritual consisted of offerings through the intermediary of mythological composite animals to the tree deity. These dose not appear to have been any concept of animals sacrifice nor worship of any idol or idols. The Indus civilization lasted for nearly five hundred years and flourished up to 1750 B.C. when we notice the movements of nomadic tribes in Central Asia. As a result the Asian trade system was greatly disturbed. Consequently the trade and industry of the Indus people greatly suffered with the result that led to the end of the Civilization. The cities vanished, the noble lost their position. The writing finished. The common people met with the influx of new horse-riding pastoralists who hardly understood the system of irrigated agriculture and hence the value of dams.
Such nomadic tribes are known from the large number of graves and their village settlements all over Swat, Dir and Bajaur right up to Taxila. In the Northern Areas of Pakistan different group of such tribes, known as Dardic people are known from their graves. The tribes of the plains are recognized as different groups of the Aryans from the hilly tribes of the North- the ancestors of the Kalash people and those who now speak Shina, Burushaski and other Kohistani languages. They had nothing to do with the cities as we find them building small villages nor did they know irrigation. Infect they believed in nature gods, one of them Indra destroyed the dams and spelled disaster on the local Dasyus who differed from them in colour, creed and language. These Aryans conquerors developed there own religion of the Vedas, practiced animal sacrifice and gradually built up tribal kingdoms all over the Indus Valley.
Figurines from Mehrgarh
Mohenjodaro, A forgotten City of INDUS
The most prominent being that of Gandhara with capitals at Pushkalavati (modern Charsadda) and Taxila, the last having been the older capital of Takshaka, the king of serpent worshippers. Taksha-sila (a Sanskrit word, literally translated in to Persian Mari-Qila) survive in modern Margala. It become the strong hold of the Aryans, whose great epic book Mahabharata was for the first time recited here. Since that time Takshka-sila or Taxila lying on the western side of Margala remained the capital of the Indus land, which was called Sapta- Sindhu (the land of seven rivers) by the Aryans. It because of this central location, en routs from Central to South Asia that the new capital of Pakistan has been established at Islamabad on the eastern side of Margala hill , thus giving a historical link from the most ancient to modern time and new significance to Pakistan as a link between Central and South Asia.
The city of Taxila began to grow from 6th century B.C. onward when Achaemenian kings by name Cyrus and Darius joined this city by road and postal services with their own capital at Persepolis in Iran. Here one can see the Aryan village at Hatial mound lying above the pre-Aryan bronze age capital of Takshakas (Serpent worshipers). One can also visit the Achaemenian city at Bhir mound, where old bazaars and royal palace, with long covered drain, have been discovered. Land rout trade with Iran and the west once again started with the issue of coin currency for the first time in the Indus land. But the most important was the great use of iron technology, which produced several kind of iron tools, weapons and other objects of daily use as known as from the excavations at Taxila.
Figurines from Mehergarh
Figurines from Mehergarh
Above all a new writing known as Kharoshti was developed here. At the same time the oldest University of the world was founded at Taxila, where taught the great grammarian Panini, born at the modern village of Lahur in Sawabi district of the Frontier Province. It is the basis of this grammar that modern linguistics has been developed. It is in this University that Chandra Gupta Maurya got his education, who later founded the first sub continental empire in South Asia. He developed the Mauryan city at Bhir mound in Taxila, where ruled his grandson, Ashoka, twice as governor. He introduced Buddhism in Gandhara and built the first Buddhist monastery, called Dharmarajika Vihara, at Taxila. Ashoka has left behind his Rock Edicts at two palaces, one at Mansehra and another at Shahbazgari, written in Kharoshti.
Long before the rise of Chandra Gupta Maurya the Achaemenian empire, that had extended from Pakistan to Greece and Egypt, had collapsed under the onslaught of Alexander of Macedonia. He first finished with the Greek city states, united the Greeks, and dashed forward to annex the Achaemenian empire and hence proceeded to all those places where the Achaemenian had ruled. In this march they come to Taxila in 326 B.C. where he was welcomed by the local king Ambhi in his palace at Bhir mound. It is here as well as at Bhira in Jhelum district that Alexander’s remains can be seen. However, he fought the greatest battale on the bank of the Jhelum river opposite the present village of Jalalpur Sharif against Porus, the head of the heroic Puru tribe, whose descendents still supply military personal to the Pakistan army. Alexander’s battle place was at Mong, where he founded a new city, called Nikea, the city of victory. The other city which he founded was called Bucaphela after the name of his horse that died here. However, the most captivating site is at Jalalpur Shaif, laying on the bank of rivulet Gandaria, perhaps Sikanaria, where Alexander’s monument has now been built on the spot where he stopped for about two months before launching his attack on Porus.
The Achaemenian and Alexander’s contacts with Pakistan are very important from the point of view of educational and Cultural history. The Achaemenian brought the learning and science of Mesopotamia Civilization that enriched the University of Taxila. They also introduced their administrative system here, on the basis of which the famous book on political science, called Arthasastra was written in Sanskrit language in Taxila by Kautilya, known as Chanakya, the teacher of Chandra Gupta Maurya. It is this book that was adapted for the administrative of the Mauryan empire. On the basis of Achaemenian currency the Mauryan punch marked coins. So well known in Taxila, were produced. It is their Aramaic writing, used by Achaemenian clerks, that led to the development of Kharoshti in Pakistan and trade with the Semitic world that created the Brahmi writing in India. On the other hand Alexander brought Greek knowledge and science to Taxila and introduced Greek type of coin currency.
Pakistani Trade 5000 years years ago in the IVC and outside
It is Taxila that philosophers and men of learning of the two countries met and developed science, mathematics and astronomy. Above all Alexander left behind large number of Greeks in Central Asia, who founded the Bactrian Greek kingdom in mid-third century B.C. it is the descendants of these Bactrian Greeks who later advanced in to Pakistan and built up the Greek kingdom here and built up their own city at Sirkap in Taxila. This is the second well planned city in Pakistan. The Greeks introduced their language, art and religion in the country of Gandhara, where ruled thirteen Greek kings and queens. Their language lasted more than five hundred years and their art and religion and considerable influence on the flourish of Gandhara Civilization.
This civilization was the result of interaction of several peoples who followed the Greeks, the Scythians, the Parthians and Kushans who came one the other from Central Asia along the Silk Road and integrated them selves into the local society. It is under their patronage that Buddhism evolved here into its new Mahayana form and this become the religion of the contemporary people in Pakistan. Under their encouragement the Buddhist monks moved along the Silk Road freely and carried this religion to central Asia, China, Korea and Japan.
It is again the trade along the silk road that was particularly controlled by the Kushana emperors, who built a mighty empire with Peshawar as their Capital, the boundaries of which extended from the Aral Sea to the Arabian Sea and from Afghanistan to the Bay of Bengal. It is the dividends of trade that enriched Pakistan and led to the development of Gandhara Art, which mirrors the social, religious and common man’s life of the time. It is an art that was blend of the Greek classical and local arts, which created the finest statues of Buddha and Buddhisatttvas that today decorate the museums all over the world. At the same time the sculpture depict the whole life of the Buddha in a manner that is unsurpassed. Many Greek themes, their gods, typical toilet trays, Greek life scenes showing musicians, drinking bouts and love making are presented in there natural fashion. The Kushanas period was the golden age of Pakistan as the Silk Road trade brought unparalleled prosperity to the people of the country.
The luxury items produced in the country enrich the museum at Taxila at that show the Cultural and trends of life of the time. Gandhara art is the high water achievement of the people of Pakistan. Mahayana Buddhism was the inspiring ideal of the time and the Buddhist stupas and monasteries survive in every nook and corner of the hills. It was this time that the country was known as Kushana-shahar, the land of the Kushanas, to which came the Romanships to carry the luxury goods in exchange for Roman Siler and Gold, that were used by the Kushana emperors and as a result their gold currency flooded the country and all along the Silk road. It is these Kushana kings who have gifted the national dress of shalwar and kamiz and sherwani to Pakistan. Their dress and decorations are deeply imprinted on the Indus land, that is now Pakistan.
Then came from Central Asia the Huns and the Turks who gave to Pakistan the present ethnic, their Culture, Food and Adab. The Jats, Gakkhars, Janjuas (Jouanjouan of the Chinese) and Gujars all trekked into Pakistan and made their home here. The Rajput rose and founded the feudal system in Punjab and Sindh in the same way the Pashtuns, who borrowed the surname of Gul and later the title of Khan from the Mongols, their Sardari system in Balochistan, and slowly developed the Wadera practice in the Indus delta region of Sindh. This feudal arrangements, which was the result of confederated tribes of the Huns, led to new administrative system in the country and created a new form of land management that has lasted until today. The tribes have fused into the agricultural society but their brotherhoods have survived and they have given a permanent character to Pakistan.
In the early eight Century A.D. the Arabs brought Islam in Sindh and Multan built up the kingdom of Al-Mansurah in Sindh. At the same time their east ward Sea trade introduced porcelain and called on were from China and popularized glass were from Iran Syria- new materials that can be seen in the excavations at Bambhore in Sindh. With the Muslims Turks came the Sufis and Dervishes from Central Asia. Iran and Afghanistan and they spread Islam all over the country. It is Sultan Mahamud of Ghazni who made Lahore- the city of Data Sahib as his second capital. However, the city of Multan become famous as the city of Saints although it lay en route the camel caravan that carried on trade between Pakistan and Central Asia right up to Baku in Azerbaijan. It is these cities that the famous Muslims monuments of old are to be seen. As a result of the Saintly activity Pakistan become a land of Islamic Civilization.
In several villages and cities we now find the Dargah of these Muslims Saints. While Shahbaz Kalandar is a well known in Sindh, Baba Farid Shakarganj resided over Pak Pattan in Punjab, Buner Baba rules over the Frontier region, and Syed Ali Hamdani is the real Sufi Saint in Kashmir. The capital city of Islamabad enshrines the well known Golra Sharif and Barri Imam. It is in these Saints who influenced the development of Sufi literature in all the languages of Pakistan and their monumental tombs that attract the people from all the country. In the old city of Thatta at Makli hill several tombs and Mausoleums are spread over the place that surpass in the beauty of stone carving but much more than this they evidence the historical evolution of architecture from 12th century A.D. to the Mughal time.
This was a period of great change in the historical integration of the people in Pakistan when the country was brought closer to Central Asia and the Arab world. The mixing of several tribes from both these regions transformed the ethnic complex of the country. Just as in the period of Kushanas of Mahayana type rose here and the Buddhist monks out from this land along the Silk road to carry the massage of the Buddha, now it was the Arabs and the Muslims Saints from Central Asia who came in the reverse direction and flocked in the prosperous land of Pakistan. New trade route were opened in the reverse direction from those countries into the Indus land. From the Huns to the Turks the age of cavalry dominated the life scene. Many Rock carvings in Central Punjab show men riding, even standing on horse back and brandishing their swords and shooting arrows. Hence forward Polo game become common and sword dance was common, as seen in the Rock carving near Chilas.
The foundation of Muslims state was firmly laid, in which the dominate position first occupied by the Arabs in Sindh and Multan and later by the Gaznavid and Ghorid Sultans who made the Indus country as their spring board from the onward conquest of India. A beautiful monument in memory of sultan Ghori can be seen at Suhawa on the National Highway. It was therefore in the fitness of things that the first missile made in Pakistan was named after Ghori. Several Muslims kingdoms grew up in this country. Beginning from north we find the Tarkhan ruling dynasty, who came from trans-pamir region here and become supreme in the Gilgit area. The descendent of Shah Mir founded the Muslims Sultanate in Kashmir maintained its independents until the time of the Mughal emperor Akbar. The Pushtun tribes made their movements and asserted their independence in the land watered by the western branch of the Indus River. The Langhas and later the Arghuns become the Master of Multan.
The Sama ruling dynasty started a new era of Cultural development and prosperity in Sindh. The Baluchis in concert with Brahuis leapt forward not only to build their kingdom in Balochistan but also migrated eastward and northward. Apart from these political shape of the country, there was an unparalleled development in art and architecture, literature and music, and particularly new social integration took place on the basis of the patronage of local languages, such as Baluchi, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Shina and Burushaski. All these languages received literary form with the support of the Muslims rulers and the first time their literatures began to take shape.
They received influence from Arabic and Persian and added many themes from the Folklores as well as from those of Central Asia. Such an unusual developments transformed the society with the stories from Shahnama and Hazar Dastan and with the Folk-tales from Lila-Majnun, Sassi-Punnu and Hir-Ranjha. The stringed instruments, the dholak and the dhap and also flute and trinklets gave a new tone to the life of the people of Multan, Thatta, Marha Shrif in D.I. Khan, Swat and Kashmir, and finally Gilgit, Hunza and Baltistan created the finest architecture of the time. That was the period of new religious activity in the country side when Islam become the dominant religion of the people who were directly linked in religious ties with the people of Central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey and Arab world.
The migrant people had brought the new technology of straining the horse from Central Asia and Iran. Were ever the horse galloped right up the corner of Bengal and Orissa, the Turks and Afghans advanced from Pakistan and established new empires. Here the artisans and craftsman gathered in new centre, cities began to grow with new craft mohallas, and they began to specialise in the products of Shawl and carpets in Kashmir, chapkan, chadar and dopatta in Punjab and Chitral and Northern Areas, tile work in Multan, Hala and Hyderabad, block printing in Sindh and fine carpentry in Chiniot, Bhira and Dera Ismail Khan. As a result several families occupied themselves in traditional crafts and passed them on to their own children.
However, his choicest building is the Shish Mahal, the Mirror Palace that was the constructed by the side of a Char-bagh style garden with running water channel and fountains, but later destroyed by the Sikhs, and quadrangles remodelled. Such garden, called Mehtab, can be seen in other quadrangles in the Fort. The Shish Mahal is the luxurious place of resort particularly during summer months with rest rooms of a long hall at its either end, opening on to the brilliantly dazzling Veranda that looks at the marble paved quadrangle with a fountain in the middle side. The mirror reflects the stars and the bedrooms presents, in its ceiling, the panorama of a star lit Sky. On the western side there is a unique building of Bengali style, called Naulakha, whose brilliance of precious stone outshone the natural setting of flowers and tree leaves that decorate the walls. Alas ‘ the Sikh and British soldiers have robbed many of the precious stones. Even then the Shish Mahal, even in its changed character by the Sikhs, presents a dazzling brilliance in its perfect creation by the Mughal emperor Shah Jehan. It is the climax of Mughal luxury surpassed nowhere in the world.
The exterior wall of the Shish Mahal one can see the beautiful mosaic paintings that depict everyday sport of the Mughal princes for the enjoyment of the people who used to gather below the fort not only to have a view of the emperor sitting in the Jharokha but also to admire the brilliance of colour on the wall. Here one can observe galloping horses, humped camels, elephant ride, hunting scene, animal fights, horse man plying polo or chaughan, camel fights, figures of angels, demon head sand moving clouds, horse and elephant riders crossing Swords and verities of floral and geometrical designs. There are three gates to enter the fort, all three of them showing different tastes. The Masti (or correctly Masjid) Gate on the east shows Akbar’s taste of red sand stone. The Shahburj gate on the west presents the fine mosaic decorations of the time of Janhangir. The last is the Alamgiri gate built by Emperor Aurangzeb, showing tasteful simple entrance with multiple facetted Tower at either end, crowned by Kiosks.
From Shish Mahal one can have a magnificent view of the Badashahi Masjid built by Aurangzeb on a spot regained after the river Ravi shifted further away. Its magnificent Stair way leading to the elegant red sand stone gate way on the east is highly impressive. It is on the left side that later the tomb of Allama Iqbal was built. The gate way, which is preserved the relic of the Prophet and also in one of the copy of the Holy Qur’an with brilliant calligraphy, leads into a wide open courtyard, having a washing pond in its middle, and rows of cells on its sides. On its west is the main prayer chamber of oblong shape marked by four tall corner towers. On its roof are three marble dooms of bulbous shape that attract the eye from a long distance. The interior of the mosque has chaste decoration in the mehrab chamber that opened in to equally well decorated side aisles. It has a Verandah on the front that is again tastefully decorated. But the most elegant are the tall towers at four corners of the quadrangle, from the top of which one can have an unforgettable view of the city of Lahore.
Figurines from Mehergarh
Figurines from Mehergarh
There are two other beauties in the city of which the greatest monumental gems of Lahore. The first is the most chaste fully painted mosque of Wazir Khan, which was once the centre of religious and educational activities during the Mughals period. In its original design the mosque was fronted by an open maidan that presented from a distance a marvellous view of the mosque. It was built by Ilmuddin Ansari, hailing from the old trading city of Chiniot, but later he gave rise to the city of Wazirabad. He was raised to the high post of governor by Shah Jehan for his devoted service and great skill of Hikmat. But of greater importance in his taste of decorative architecture which he has translated into this mosque. The mosque plan, which is typical Mughals style but for its squat domes has tall minarets crowned by tasteful Chhatris. The most attractive is the mosaic ornamentation of the facade, the minars, and particularly the mihrab, which remains unsurpassed in its setting and choice of decorations and calligraphic work. In its charging decoration the mosque symbolises high sense of taste and marks a magnificent attraction in Lahore, to which both Shah Jehan as well as his officials gave a new face of colour and charm.
And yet the greatest jewel of the city of Lahore is the Shalimar Bagh, the unique pleasure resort that has been gifted to the world by the Mughal emperors. With paying a visit to this garden one can hardly understand the Mughal love for pleasances. In its creation what a real pleasure they have bestowed to the people of Lahore. The garden sumbolises the elixir of life that the Mughals alone could imagine. They had long left Farghana but the beauteous charm of its terraced fields lingered behind that has been recaptured in the Char bagh style of the garden in Shalimar, as Taj Mahal in Agra is the symbol of unforgettable love of emperor Shah Jehan, in the form of unique architectural creation, for the beloved queen Mumtaz Mahal, so is the Shalimar, the epitome, of Shala (fire of love), the embodiment of the highest playful joy in life that the emperor and empress could have in this world.
Painted Pottery from Mehergarh
Painted Pottery from Mehergarh
The garden is a combination of Char baghs, water channels, fountains, Cascades, water falls and bathing hall in three different terraces, each terrace headed by beautiful pavilions for a pause of pleasurable enjoyment and then to pass on the other ponds of joy, inset with showering fountains, each terrace presenting varieties in scenic complex. Starting from a elaborate gate way in the south , with a water fountain in its middle chamber, we enter the open space, surrounded on right and left, by residential quarters, having long walkways, in the middle of either side of a channel marked by fountain, that join together on the four sides on a watery platform. And then we pass to the first pavilion that looks at a square pond remarkable sitting a cascade of a water falling down below the pavilion, series of fountains around a central seat for musicians and dancers and smaller pavilions at the four corners.
The 4 Superpowers of the ancient world. The IVC. Pakistan 5000 years ago was called the Indus Valley.The Pakistan China Nexus: The friendship higher than the Karakurrum mountains, deeper than the Arabian sea and sweeter than honey
From the top pavilion the elite royalties draw their pleasure from the scenic panorama in front and from the corner pavilions guests could roll in pleasance and enjoy the music of the running fountains coupled with the music of the singers and dancers. The next lower terrace begin with a rare bathing hall in the middle with water fountains lower down and lighted lamps in the arched niches of the walls. Here one could cool the legs during summer months- a novel way of cooling the atmosphere in the days when there were no electricity and air conditioners. And thus we find here a thrilling atmosphere where natural art has been channelised in the service of man. What a creation of charming loveliness that is combined with cooling water in various forms to soothe the evening of warm Lahore.
That is not all of Mughal architecture. If one likes to see the Mughal fondness for hunting, one can go to Sheikhupura, not far from Lahore , and admire the construction of Hiran Minar by Emperor Jahangir on the spot where his dearly loved deer died. That minar stands by the side of a tank which has in its middle a three storied pavilion for a general view around. If one is interested to see the defence arrangements of the Mughals, one can go to Attock on the bank of the Indus River, where Akbar built a magnificent fort, made arrangements for crossing the river by boat-bridge and laid a new road south of the Kabul river leading to Peshawar through the Khyber pass to Kabul. And then come to Attock the empress Nur Jahan, who constructed here a caravan serai, known as Begum Ki Serai, with a platform at its four corners and living rooms cooled by the Indus breeze. It is from one of the top platform that one could look at the magnificent expanse of the Indus River, full of flowing life and natural beauty, that perhaps will remain as the lasting memory of the Indus land, that is Pakistan.
The left-leaning Indian news magazine Frontline carried Farmer’s and Witzel’s article in a cover story titled “Horseplay in Harappa – In the ‘Piltdown Horse’ hoax, Hindutva propagandists make a little Sanskrit go a long way”. The article debunked sensational claims in 1999 that the Indus script had been “deciphered” by N S Rajaram and Natwar Jha.
The motive of this fraud was to prove that the Indus civilization was an early Hindu civilization. As proof, Rajaram and Jha produced an Indus Valley “horse” seal as evidence that the Indus people used horses, an animal commonly mentioned in the Vedas, the ancient Indian texts dating to the 2nd millennium BC – over 2,000 years later than the earliest dated Indus Valley seals. But no images of horses were found in the Indus Valley excavations, until Rajaram and Jha produced their horse seal.
Farmer and Witzel proved that the horse seal was a fraudulent computerized distortion of a broken “unicorn bull” seal. The fake horse seal was derided as the “Piltdown Horse”, an imaginary creation to fill the gap between the Harappan and Vedic cultures, just as the famous “Piltdown Man” did in 1912. That year, skeletal remains of the “missing link” between ape and man were “discovered” in Piltdown, a village in England. They were later found to be fake. Indus Valley code is cracked – maybe By Raja Murthy
Boat Village at Indus
Painted Pottery from Kot-Diji
- The Geographical Two Nation Theory: Pakistan existed 5000 years ago as the “Indus Valley Civilization”
- Please visit http://www.pakhistorian.com for History of Pakistan
- Pakistan as it existed 5000 years ago
The problem is that any new “path-breaking” Indus Valley research findings have to pass credibility tests. The Indus Valley puzzle took a more crooked dimension in the past decade. India’s right-wing political outfits that grew in this period, such as the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), have been known to make clumsy, ridiculously amateurish attempts to “rewrite” over 5,000 years of Indian history.
Such fake coloring of authentic Indian and Hindu religious history was to feed a narrow-minded sectarian, political and chauvinistic agenda. The BJP has denied such history-faking tricks. But a senior BJP worker in Kolkata, an art critic by profession, told this correspondent in 2003 that he was engaged in rewriting history textbooks. The BJP was then heading India’s central government.
This history tomfoolery included attempts to portray the Indus Valley culture as a Hindu civilization. Some fraudsters have even produced fake Indus seals as “proof” of an advanced society with rich, as yet undiscovered, literature.
But the genuine Indus symbols are merely simple non-linguistic signs common in the ancient world, according to a controversial paper in 2004 titled “The Collapse of the Indus-Script Thesis: The Myth of a Literate Harappan Civilization”. The paper was written by comparative historian Steve Farmer; Richard Sproat, a biomedical computer scientist at the Oregon Health and Science University, Portland; and Michael Witzel, an Indologist from the Department of Sanskrit and Indian studies at Harvard University. Indus Valley code is cracked – maybe By Raja Murthy
A Neolithic stone shaped like a hand held axe, dating to between 2000 BC – 1500 BC has been found near Mayiladuthurai in Tamil Nadu. What makes this find more interesting is the fact that this stone has Indus Valley signs on it. This is one great find since this brings out evidence that the Indus script had reached Tamil Nadu around the same time the Indus civilization was in its glory.
According to Mr. Mahadevan, the first sign on the celt depicted a skeletal body with ribs. The figure is seated on his haunches, body bent and contracted, with lower limbs folded and knees drawn up. The second sign showed a jar. Hundreds of this pair have been found on seals and sealings at Harappa. Mr Mahadevan read the first sign as “muruku” and the second sign as “an.” In other words, it is “Murukan.” The earliest references in Old Tamil poetry portrayed him as a “wrathful killer,” indicating his prowess as a war god and hunter. The third sign looked like a trident and the fourth like a crescent with a loop in the middle.[Discovery of a century" in Tamil Nadu via email from Anand Krishnamoorthi]
Does this mean that Harappans and the people of Tamil Nadu shared a same language? Iravatham Mahadevan, an expert on Indus Valley script thinks so.
He said: “`Muruku’ and ‘an’ are shown hundreds of times in the Indus script found at Harappa. This is the importance of the find at Sembiyan-Kandiyur. Not only do the Neolithic people of Tamil Nadu and the Harappans share the same script but the same language.” In Tamil Nadu, the muruku symbol was first identified from a pottery graffiti at Sanur, near Tindivanam. B.B. Lal, former Director-General of ASI, correctly identified this symbol with sign 47 of the Indus script. In recent years, the muruku symbol turned up among the pottery graffiti found at Mangudi, near Tirunelveli in Tamil Nadu, and at Muciri, Kerala. But this was the first time that a complete, classical Indus script had been found on a polished Neolithic stone celt, Mr. Mahadevan pointed out.[ Significance of Mayiladuthurai find]http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/01/stories/2006050101992000.htm Monday, Sep 14, 2009 http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/14/stories/2009091452280300.htmKOCHI: Archaeological findings dating back about 3,000 years discovered in the Kalady area are in peril. The Neolithic relics have ended up in private custody, prompting the State Archaeology Department to initiate a move to recover them. An archaeology enthusiast K.A. Ali had recovered 43 stone axes (Neolithic Celts) and a grinding stone from a tributary of the Periyar http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html
Now you are reaching to the bottom of the barrel. One artifact does not history make–that too discovered in Tamil nadu—which was never part of the IVC. IVC shileds with the bull have been discovered in Hawaii too–the Indus people traded with Sumer & Ur (Moses). The Indus people also traded with Aden, Somalia and what is now the UAE. The “kauri” off the coast of Mekan is used all across the Gulf as currency. It is not outside the realm of possibility that boats from Mekan reached Tamil nadu and Lanka.
There are Bharatis in Dubai, and the East Indies. Native Americans are mislabeled as “Indians”. That does not mean that they are from “India”.
With all due respect, our knowledge of the IVC transcends what is posted on the web site. We have investigated the IVC for more than 25 years. Please read the worls of Dr. Dani and Dale. One day, I may publish my book on the net. Exceprts are already on this site and other.
dear moin,
it seems u are the final authority, all other finds are inconclusive, only finds which suits ur theory is correct
pakistani history starts with invasion of sind by the arabs, and islamistion of india northwest,
have an open mind, accepts ur past,
pakistan is in denial of its past since partition
i know probably u willot post my comments,
rgds
Richie
Inability to read is a serious handicap. This article in actual fact does discuss the Indus Valley Civilization as the Pakistani Civilization.
A rock engraving, similar to a sign of the Indus Valley Civilisation, has been found at Edakkal in Wayanad district of Kerala. A recent exploration at the Edakkal Caves revealed a picture of a man with a jar, a unique sign of the Indus civilisation.
Tangible evidence
Engraved supposedly with a stone-axe in linear style, the sign has proven itself to be a tangible evidence to link it to the Indus culture. It was the first time that an Indus sign is discovered in Kerala.
“But we do not claim that the Indus people reached Wayanad; nor do we argue that Edakkal was a continuity of the Indus civilisation,” said historian M.R. Raghava Varier, who identified the sign during the exploration in August.
He said, “What is striking in the Edakkal sign is the presence of an Indus motif, which has been rare and interesting.”
Man-with-the-jar has been a recurring motif of the Indus Valley signs. Though it uses the Indus motif, the Edakkal engraving has retained its unique style. With linear strokes, the engraver has tried to attain a two-dimensional human figure.
“The ‘jar’ is the same as in Indus ‘ligature.’ But the human figure is slightly different. This is where the influence of the Edakkal style predominates,” said Dr. Varier.
Unique
Though rock art sites are plenty in different continents, the rock engravings at the Edakkal Caves are unique in the world. The Indus Civilisation has been dated between 2,300 BC and 1,700 BC. The Edakkal culture, however, is yet to be identified with any particular time.
Historians say Edakkal represents quite a long period. The figures of ritualistic nature found at Edakkal represent different stages of human development, both historic and pre-historic. “But this one is definitely pre-historic,” Dr. Varier said.http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/26/stories/2009092661621200.htm look at this son ofthe arab dog
man:
Interesting but insignificant
We read the story. There is no significance to this find. IVC bulls have been found as far as Hawaii. The Meluhha’s traded with Aden, Somalia, and the GUlf area–and some small boats even crossed the Atlantic or traders got the goods to the Americas.
“But we do not claim that the Indus people reached Wayanad; nor do we argue that Edakkal was a continuity of the Indus civilisation,” said historian M.R. Raghava Varier, who identified the sign during the exploration in August.
He said, “What is striking in the Edakkal sign is the presence of an Indus motif, which has been rare and interesting.”
PS: I wrote this before I saw your last sentence which forced me to delete your abusive post. Any further abuse will ban you permanently.
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Hello from Wexford Ireland, I enjoyed the article. Very Good.
Thanks Gerg
Beautiful article and pics. Kudo!!!
I am glad that Katas Raj pic does not appear. You are wise enuff to realise that not every part of Pak’s heritage is worth appreciating!!!
Dev Kant
Post IVC temples were not part of the article. The Katas Raj temple has been nominated by the Government of Pakistan to the World Heritage Foundation for preservation. Bharat should send experts to preserve and restore it.
Unfortunately the Hindus in Punjab don’t pay any attention to their religious places of worship and the government has to take care ot the temples–with obvious in built inefficiencies.
We have always supported religious tourism in Pakistan.
i cant accept that the cuklturre is pakistanis.this land is the last brother of india
The land of the Indus bleongs to the Indus people–not those who live on the Ganges. The Pakistanis are the Indus people. “Indians” should call themselves Gangians.
Moin ansari saheb,
Not all Bhartis live on the banks of the Ganges. What shud Bhartis who live on the banks of Brahmaputra, Godavari, Krishna, Kaveri etc call themselves?
Dev Kant
Brahmans, Godavians, Kevarians
Another Pakistan monger’s article with sole intent of justifying Pakistan’s identity. Reality is Pakistan was part of India until the muslim barbarians did ethnic cleansing.
We wish Pakistan remain a seprate identity and nothing to do with anything Indian. Thank God!
There is a 85% probabily that based on the fact that you live in “India”. there is a 60% probablity that your name is not Sikandar. There is a 90% probability that you are not a Muslim based on the content of your comment. There is a 100% probability that you are not Sikandar based on the fact that there is conflict between published name and yout fake email id.
Therefore any comment you make has no credability.
As such your expertise in history in nil, null and void.
Pakistan as a geographic entity existed 7000 years ag–way before Bharat was a twinkle in the ey of Arjun–who came on the cahrriots much much much later.
Pakistan was never part of India. “India” means nothing–the British called everything non-british India–Columbus called the Cherokkes Indian. He even named it West India. The French thought of “India” as Laos Cambodia and Vietnam–thjey called it “Indo-China”. The Dutch thought “India” was Indo-Nesia. the British “Indian” EMpire included Iraq, Aden, Somalia at times–and even Lanka, Afghanistan, Burma–”India” according to Winston Churchill is as ephemeral as the Equator”.
You are not on the Indus–so why name your country on the Indus–a Pakistani river. You should call yourself Gghangians–becuase you live on the Ganges. Bharat could be a sustitute–but you don’t want to use your constitutional name.
In the Pakistani IVC, there was to Agni, no Mithra, no Shiva, No Ram, and no Arjun–they came alter to the Gnages valley with was their rural civilization…the IVC was urban (unlike the stories of Mhabharat and kaura Panda wars–which are rural)
QED
As the saying goes whoever controls Indus river, controls the subcontinent. Indus was the basis for holding power on the subcontinent. Indus valley, Alexander the great, delhi sultanate, Ghazni, Ghauri, Mughals and then british all came to know the importance of Indus. 1857 Mutiny didn’t work because Punjabi dominated Indus didn’t support the rebels.
The british mostly used Punjabi Rajputs to suppress the rebellion. The entire Punjab, the province in which the Upper Indus flows, remained loyal to Britain, It confirmed earlier assessments, such as those made after the Sir Alexander Burnes expedition (who was the first Westerner to explore the Indus River) of the strategic importance of the Indus that Britain could control the region if they held the Indus, and consequently, the Punjab.
The british didn’t care about congress party antics as long as they controlled Punjab and had the support of marshall race of Punjab. The first muslim general in British army was also Punjabi Rajput as well as Pak army. It was only after 1946 election in which Muslim league power house in Punjab ended the support of foreign rule that british were assured that they have lost Punjab and thus Indus which makes up subcontinent.
This is not about glorifying Punjab but indus which is mostly controlled by inhabited and controlled. Ghauri and Ghaznavids have also made their capitals at Lahore. 1857 mutiny was largely bengali mutiny, Pakistan lost bengal because of bengali mutiny and again in 2009 mutiny in Bengal. [...] Punjab have always been loyal to country and army there is no doubt why India, Bangladesh, bugti, pushtun and sindhi separatist hate punjabis.
Dear Moin Ansari
If you were to publish your research on the “Dark Matter” you will be a sure shot for next years Nobel Prize in Physics. Good luck.
the quote on this article is from Dr. Dani–one of the foremost archeologists of the century–who has published more than two dozen books on the archeology of Bangaldesh, Pakistan, Central Asia and Bharat. Dr. Dani has been nominated for and received many awards from across the planet including Bharat.
Of course your temple indoctrination cannot allow you to read any sensible history of South Asia–other than the one written in Mahabharta
This tashfin guy is just super. Mr Ansari, you don;t have any Knight’s Cross with Oak leaves & Diamond to award to him??
All heil tashfin..the thane of knowledge…for history shall be written thereafter!!!
Dear [...], does not matter how much you down grade India and how much falsifications you make to call Pakistanis as IVC people, [...]
Since you could not argue with the content–you will continue repeating your personal insults. This is what intelelctually bankrupt people who have no logic do.
People with my last name span the globe. You cannot put me in any box–we are the conscience–and will continue to publish the truth on this site and dozens of other sites that you may or may not know about.
Millions visit our site(s)–so your opinion is not worth much. We have repeatedly told you–if you dont like the content don’t visit us.
Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words shall never harm me.
Pakistani Textbooks and many people from Pakistan feel Mohd-bin-Qasim was the “First Pakistani”, do you agree?
He is called “Mujahid e Awal” which doesn’t really translate to what you have written. It translates to the “First freedom Fighter”.
It is correct that he was the first freedom fighter against oppression, illiteracy, and the jahaliya
So according to you, Mohammed-bin-Qasim being referred to as “First Pakistani” is an incorrect translation and anyone calling him in such away is wrong. Okay, I will be sure to correct my Pakistani friends when they say something like that in future.
First of all please use the your correct name. Secondly show me some references of what you are talking about. I have seen Mujahid a Awal.
I guess you have only heard of “Mujahid a Awal” and have never heard of Mohd-bin-Qasim be refered to as “First Pakistani” and since my references are considred unreliable by you (Wikipedia and Pakistani friends!!), then I will assume “First Pakistani” should be incorrect and I will be sure to correct the person who insists on calling Mohd-bin-Qasim “First Pakistani” .
My name is Adil Shah. I’m surprised you don’t bieleve me.
“Adil Shah”. What is the last letter of what you say—when in rukuh?
I have not seen any source.
The only reference I have is not considered valid by you, the reference is Wikipedia.
Below link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim
So, according to you, it is a mistake for anyone to call Muhammad-bin-Qasim as “First Pakistani”. I will be sure to point that out to the next person who uses the phrase “First Pakistani” for Muhammad-bin-Qasim. I will tell that person he/she is wrong (according to the rupeenews website).
Mr. “Adil Shah”:
Your failure to answer the basic question tells us that you are neither Adil nor Shah. Wiki is not even acceptable at the KG level in the USA. We do not accept the Bharati infested source which does not present the other point of view.
Our sources on the Pakistani Indus Valley Civilization are as follows:
1) The Indus Saga by Ahtizaz Ahsan
2) History of Pakistan by Ahmed Hasan Dani
3) Various sources given in the article itself.
You were unable to give us any sources, so it is time to move on
I am gradually making my way through this site and am utterly flabbergasted. The logic here, if translated into Europe and it’s vast mix of identities (from Russia to Iceland and everything in between including the Protestant north, Catholic south and Muslim Bosnia, which as we all know, are the parts that constitute the European sum), would elicit disbelief. Whilst I can objectively understand a passionate sense of national destiny in the bid to rediscover one’s sense of being, yet to deny the proximity of the various components of the greater Indus civilisation, rooted as it is in food, language, culture, literature and all the things we take as distinctly representing an identity uniquely Pakistani/Indian to those of us who are not, is, well, frankly, wasted effort that is better employed elevating your country from the deep poverty and ignorance it is synonymous with.
As I said, according to you and your sources Muhammad-bin-Qasim is not the “First Pakistani”, so I will be sure to tell any Pakistani who uses that phrase, that he/she is wrong. Yes, please move on. I’m sure there are other more important things for you to do.
Also, don’t you notice that I’m agreeing with you 100% so it is a little strange to see you with such antagonism!!! I mean I agree with you that Muhammad-bin-Qasim is not the “First Pakistani”
gr8 work done. Pakistan existed 7000 years before. [...] u r such a gr8 historian.Tell me either u r a mujahir or a punjabi or a sindhi? ur country is greatest obnoxious weed on earth as u say 7000 years old.
Jake: Can you define what you said in English.
Please use your correct name. You have been unable to answer the question proving that you are Muslim. Please quit repeating yourself.
Please have a look at this video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Dy2q1ml4M&feature=related
and see for yourself the Indian cities which were lost to the sea after ice age. Islamic and Arabic influence reached subcontinent hardly about 1000 years back. Carbon dating proves that Dwarika existed as a well developed city 9000 years back. Mohan Jo Daro, which is about 5000 years old, was part of post Mahabharat civilisation. Mohan is another name of Lord Krishna by the way.
Moen jodaro is NOT Indian–it is a Pakistani city belonging to the Pakistani Civilization.
9000 is stretching it–the IVC reached its peak at 3500 BC. It existed mainly on the banks of the Indus which is a Pakistani river not a Bharati river. The IVC was a contemporary of Musa who lived in Urr and Sumer, and the IVC Meluhhan’s traded with them.
The ICE melted around 6000 BC. So a city in the ice age is not only comical it is absurd.
The IVC is not Hindu, never was and never will. Moen is NOT Mohan, Moen spelt different ways means mound of the dead. It has nothing to do with Hinduism’s Mohen. Moenjo daro is as much Hindu as the Ram truck made by General Motors.
As stated in the article, the IVC Pakistan ate beef, did not worship the Hindu pantheon, they did not know the Hindu pantheon (Arjun, Agni, Ganesh, kali Devi etc.), they buried their dead, lived in ruban cities, did not speak or write Sanskrit, wrote right to left, did not know the horse, wrote a pictographic language, did not ride chariots, were not rural, and did not use any of the Hndu symboloy–that came later–much later.
“Mahabharta” is a figment of the imagination of the Hindu mahasabah.
Everything that needs to be said, has been said, now we are simply repeating ourselves–no value add. After our last discourse and your comment of the ambilical cord, we are not going to waste any further time with you. This topic is now closed.
“After our last discourse and your comment of the ambilical cord, we are not going to waste any further time with you. This topic is now closed.”
Dear Editor , yor above closing remarks shows that you are simply incapable of handling others’ view points. This is your website and you are free to close any topic you wish. Even in Pakistan people don’t buy your logics of history. What have you to say of the name ” Lakhan Jo Daro” ? Is Lakhan not a Hindu name? Have a look at this Pakistani website and see for yourself;
http://pakistaniat.com/2009/07/18/lakhian-jo-daro/
This is what it says;
“Lakhan-jo-Daro is a Sindhi word and it means The Hill of Lakhan in English and ‘Lakhan ka Teela’ in Urdu. Going by the same nomenclauture you can also guess what the famous site Mohen-jo-Daro means.”
I am sure you will come out with another meaning of Lakhan.. good for you. Now you can close the topic. It was fun interacting with you and know your distorted version or rather reactionary versions of history.
This subject is now closed. All that needs to be said, has been said from our side. We have nothing more to add. We don’t have the bandwitch to continue a discussion ad museum–specially since flame baits like “umbilical cord” are thrown our way–in the midst of an intellectual discussion.
I am in possession of every major book on the IVC, have read than and am in the process of completing my own book. Some of the material has been acquired from discussion–however we see no value add to this particular thread.
If the level of discussion is “A Hindu name” (At a time when Hindusism didn’t exist in the area or in the time-frame), and the ref is a web aggretor site–then we may not have the time to continue this. You are not willing to learn–you simply want us to accept your point of view–that essentially could only happen if we converted to your dharam.
“Pakistaniat” is a great news aggregator site that uses many many of our articles. It used humor to point to an innuendo —Pakistaniat does not claim to be authority on history.”Lakhan” means “millions”. “Hill of the millions”
Pakistaniat has used our articles in the past. Here is one on Lakhan jo daro.
http://rupeenews.com/2009/01/23/the-7000-year-old-pakistani-civilization-new-cities-discovered-in-sukkur/
We have written enough on this subject.
You can continue to argue with yourself
Bravo! with so much hatred implanted against India (Bharth) what the people of pakistan are going to achieve?!!! There is nothing but only Hatred, Hatred and Hatred which can be seen here. May God save you and your soul rest in peace.
“The friendship higher than the Karakurrum mountains, deeper than the Arabian sea and sweeter than honey”. What an imagination? How can you prove it that it was sweether than Honey?!!! deeper than Arabian Sea?!!! All figments of imagination. Commend yourself out of nothing and push your ideas of Hatred against India. Please come out of this fool’s paradise. There is no point in fooling yourself and also trying to fool the whole world.
The saying ““The friendship higher than the Karakurrum mountains, deeper than the Arabian sea and sweeter than honey” was coined by Mao Zedung and is based on a Chinese proverb. It has been used by the Chinese and the Pakistanis for several generations.
Ram–you will never find out how sweet friendship between nations is–becuase Bharat has no friends–only enemies, former friends, and transactional relationships.
Pakistanis have an emotional bond with their Chinese friends and a broad spectrum of political though in Pakistan supports this friendship.
The friendship is mutual with malice towards none.
Pakistan is in a state of embarrasment. You guys are not able to make who were your fore fathers. You and whole world admit that Islam is 1300 year old baby. But you guys who dont know or can not swallow what was behind that are simply saying you are some 7000 year old.
My god. What makes you write like this . I am really stunned. As i quoted some where , you gys might end up saying DINOSAUR was a muslim, [...]
My dear editor have some sense and stop using anti hindu rhetoric. Dont be in state of denial for your glorious hindu past.
Islam as i said is 1300 year old baby dont start selling it as your father.We personally honour every religion . And if you are this much allergic to your hindu origin & neighbour hood then tery and see where you can find a place where hindu/ buddists roots have not reached
Its like a tag team–one name comes forward, then the other one on the same subject. With all due respect you should stick to the subject that you know a lot about –bigotry, racism and hatred.
Please don’t take it personally but there are huge anomalies of nomenclature in the land of the Ganges. The name of the country is the biggest embarrassment of all. The country was named in the 50s–and it was a colossal mistake. Why would anyone name the country on the river that does not exist in that country. “India” was named by the Arabs who called it Sindh and Hindh. Why would Bharat call itself on a river in Pakistan. It should call itself Ganghia (Ganges river people). Even the name of the religion was given by foreigners and the British. There is no mention of “Hindu” even in the old scriptures. All this started when Pandit Radhakantta began re-writing the history under the guidance of Sir James Princep. Ashoka was invented at the time. No such name exists in the annals of South Asian history–either Greek or local. Even the so called pillars do not have Ashoka’s name. Some of the pillars preceded Buddhism itself.
There was no Akhand Bharat—ever.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/09/10/did-ashoka-exist-did-pandit-radhakantta-create-him-for-james-princep-in-1837/
Your pithy knowledge of Islam smacks of illiteracy and ignorant claptrap. You should not go where you do not have knowledge.
Islam is not 1400 years old, Adam and Abraham were Muslims. There is a quote in the Quran, that Abraham was neither Christian not a Jew–he was a Muslim. Prophet Muhammad always called it Din e Ibraheemi. There is an overwhelming body of evidence on this subject. You can read Islamic jurisprudence and current facts. The Patriarchs mosque (where Prophet Abraham is buried) in Palestine is under the joint ownership of Jews and Muslims, and Muslims pray there every day. Tombs of ancient prophets are visited by Muslims on a daily basis.
The Indus Valley was not Hindu. Pakistan’s 7000 year old Civilization (Indus Valley and Mehargarh Civilization) was not Hindu. They did not speak Sanskrit, ate beef, buried their dead, did not write left to right, were not rural, did not know the horse, wrote right to left in a pictographic Non-Sanskrit script, did not worship the Hindu Pantheon (Arjun, Sita, Ram, Ganesh, Kali Devi, Agni Mithra or the other 33 million), the did not use chariots (Arjun), lived in an urban setting, were not in any way connected to the stories of Ram and Sita (which were in a rural jungles of the Ganges), preceded Buddhism, and did not cremate the fallen. In language, dress, cuisine, religion they had nothing in common with the Hindus of the Ganges–the Indus Pakistanis were not Hindu in any sense of the word.
We are not going to repeat all the points that have already been made in the article and supported by Ahtizaz Ahsan, Dr. Dani, Porpola. Dales, and Allchin.
Your deprecating remarks about Islam have been deleted.
Most Muslims do not make fun of the Gods of other people. Since ths is not a religious site we do not discuss religion here. However we can make fun of your religion–beleive me it won’t be hard.
Please refer some details about Ashok from some of the worlds most acknowledged history books
Swearer, Donald. Buddhism and Society in Southeast Asia (Chambersburg, Pennsylvania: Anima Books, 1981) ISBN 0-89012-023-4
Thapar, Romila. A?oka and the decline of the Mauryas (Delhi : Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1997, 1998 printing, c1961) ISBN 0-19-564445-X
Nilakanta Sastri, K. A. Age of the Nandas and Mauryas (Delhi : Motilal Banarsidass, [1967] c1952) ISBN 0-89684-167-7
Bongard-Levin, G. M. Mauryan India (Stosius Inc/Advent Books Division May 1986) ISBN 0-86590-826-5
Govind Gokhale, Balkrishna. Asoka Maurya (Irvington Pub June 1966) ISBN 0-8290-1735-6
Chand Chauhan, Gian. Origin and Growth of Feudalism in Early India: From the Mauryas to AD 650 (Munshiram Manoharlal January 2004) ISBN 81-215-1028-7
Keay, John. India: A History (Grove Press; 1 Grove Pr edition May 10, 2001) ISBN 0-8021-3797-0
Falk, Harry. Asokan Sites and Artefacts – A Source-book with Bibliography (Mainz : Philipp von Zabern, [2006]) ISBN 978-3-8053-3712-0
And Here are some books about the Origin OF Islam
Armstrong, Karen (2000). Islam: A Short History. Modern Library. ISBN 978-0679640400.
Bloom and Blair (2000). Islam:A Thousand Years of Faith and Power.
Esposito, John (2000b). Oxford History of Islam. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0195107999.
Hart, Michael (1978). The 100:Ranking of the most influential persons in history. New York: Carol Publishing Group. ISBN 0-8065-1057-9.
Holt, P. M.; Bernard Lewis (1977a). Cambridge History of Islam, Vol. 1. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521291364.
Holt, P. M.; Ann K. S. Lambton, Bernard Lewis (1977b). Cambridge History of Islam, Vol. 2. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521291372.
Hourani, Albert; Ruthven, Malise (2003). A History of the Arab Peoples. Belknap Press; Revised edition. ISBN 978-0674010178.
Koprulu, Mehmed Fuad; Leiser, Gary (1992). The Origins of the Ottoman Empire. SUNY Press. ISBN 0791408191.
Lapidus, Ira M. (1988). A History of Islamic societes. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-22552-3.
Lewis, B. (1993). The Arabs in History. Oxford
University Press. ISBN 0-19-285258-2.
Rahman, F. (1982).
Islam & Modernity: Transformation of an Intellectual Tradition. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0-226-70284-7.
Nasr, Seyyed Hossein (2003). Islam:Religion, History and Civilization. New York: HarperCollins Publishers. ISBN 0-06-050714-4.
Sonn, Tamara (2004). A Brief History of Islam. Blackwell Publishing Ltd. ISBN 1-4051-0900-9.
Ankerl, Guy (2000). Coexisting Contemporary Civilizations: Arabo-Mulsim, Bharati, Chinese, and Western. INUPress. ISBN 2-88155-004-5.
Hourani, Albert (2002). A History of the Arab Peoples. Faber & Faber. ISBN 0-571-21591-2
You should re-write the history and for your information these books are not from any Indian author and are some of the worlds best refereed history books
The Bharati authors have the written after the British arrived in Bharat. Show me sources predating James Princep and Pandit Raddhakantta
If you had read the article you would seen a more potent and credible list of books which are questioning the existence of “Ashoka”.
BTW you list includes books that have nothing to do with Ashoka–I own some of the books. Nasr, Lapidus, Hourani, Lewis.
Falk actually disputes that all the pillars attributed to Ashoka belong to him
I know Esposito personally have have had intensive discussions on Islam with him. He has written nothing on Ashoka
I own all books of Karen Armstrong. She says nothing about Ashoka. She is a former Catholic non–who writes about Islam. She has not written anything about Ashoka.
Where did you get the list? It seems way of the subject.
In summary, the list is bogus–randomly copied from somewhere.
another nutcase Pakistani
Obviously Bharatis weaned on temple indoctrination cannot handle the truth and cannot comprehend real history–hence the puerile and juvenile reactions.
Listen chap, you are so filled with confusion, hatred and agony because of suffering from an identity crisis which can’t be solved by rewriting twisted articles about the history of the Indian subcontinent.
You really seem to have a problem with Hindus and their ‘Bharat’ but don’t hesitate to embrace their Buddhist past as yours when it comes to dealing with your identity crisis, what a shame! I just feel sorry for Pakistanis like you; you just don’t know what history you belong to. Curse should be on Jinnah;)
Listen chippe—Buddhism is not part of Hinduism–we know they teach you taht in your temples–but neither Koreans, nor the Dalai Lama, nor the Chinese, nor the Lankans buy that. They are Buddhists not Hindus.
The IVC was not Hindu–get it? Obviously not. the IVC was a Pakistani Civilization.
Read all about the curses on mohandasgandhi.wordpress.com
Your comment about Buddhism is baloney again. People can occupy lands but not their history;)
Good thing is that we can distort history (like Pakistanis like you do) but we can’t change the history (your bad luck). Maybe Jinnah didn’t think about such things when he wanted a different land for the ‘Pure’. Heck, the whole world knows how pure Pakistanis are today.
Going by what they taught you in the mandir? Let me guess you will claim that you don’t believe in Hinduism–or better still are an achiest–I have seen many of these–scratch the surface and you signs of puja pat.
What they taught you in school is propaganda. Thats not history you know! Your so called “Worlds largest Nehuistocracy” should allow other opinions too–the history of South Asia is not the history of the Indian National Congress–with all those who opposed to the INC as villains and all those who supported it heroes, including the racist failure Anti-Semite, Hitler lover called Gandhi.
So grand one who has a monopoly on truth prey tell us which Buddhists are Hindu?….Is the Dalai Lama a Hindu? All the Koreans, Thais, Cambodians, Laoations, and Tibetan are Hindu?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. “Pakistan” was not coined by Quad e Azam, Mohammad Ali Jinnah–it was coined by Chaudhry Rehmat Ali.
The Northwest was to be called PAKISTAN
P=Punjab
A=Afghania
K=Kashmir
I=Islam
TAN=Balochistan
The Northeast was to be called BANGISTAN
Read about the Bharmin Buddhist wars. Includes quotes from Jawahalal Nehru
http://rupeenews.com/so-asia/brahman-persecution-of-buddhists/
What a fantastic read..
It is very true the character, culture, religion, language, history and DO NOT FORGET ETHNICITY of the Indigenous IVC was no the same as Bha-RAT.
But the RAT seeks the comfort of the warm home.. and has hijacked our history while Pakistan has been silent.
It is a failing on Pakistan’s fault but it has more pressing matters like RECLAIMING and SECURING it’s nation.
PAKISTAN must also RECLAIM our glorious history.
BHA-RATTIES never went out of Somnath other than on raids and attacks on the caravans laden with raw and synthetic aterial along the silk route and then loaded on ships along the Arabian Sea.
These maruaders and pirates still have the traits of a their pirateering ancestors.
Hisotry has a strange way of repeating tiself, i is Allah Azuwajjal’s way of never letting the truth die.
Today he child of the Indus sits on the strategic route once more and the silk roue is to be re created from China to the Arabian Sea. The Child of he Indus will once more link Central and SE Asia ot he rest of the world.
BHA-RATTIES need to be driven back to the sewer.
This article made me laugh out loud. I suppose by the retarded logic of the Pakis[tani], Greece’s ancient philosophical tradition belongs to turkey because the historical city of Miletus now resides within Turkey’s borders. India created 2 civilizations in its long history, and the Pakis[tani] drew a line on a map and viola! instant history!
Anyhow, turning to reality, the Indus valley inhabitants shared the same genetic characteristics as south India’s Dravidian population. The dancing girl figurine clearly and proudly displays austroloid/negroid features, shared by many in south India today. Your average Pakis[tani] who aspires towards a fair complexion would never associate him/herself with such a race. Furthermore, most of the Pakis[tani] I’ve met claim to be descended from Arabs, Persians or pashtuns, which is what makes the above article a complete joke.
Thanks for the laugh people.
Monkey say. Monkey Do! Using British-trash racial epithets which denigrate Pakistanis, Indians, Lankans, Nepalese, Carribean peoples, and Bangladeshis may help the Skinheads show-case their bigotry in England, but Bharatis using the same self-deprecating epithets is the height of stupidity. Emulating White-trash shows ignorance. We will not allow posts with using racial bigotry
@Mel
Another temple indoctrinated Bharati who cannot fathom real history, and banks on what was taught to them in temples. Inability to see the other point of view is a typical Bharati which claims to boast the worlds largest Nehruistocracy. One town in Turkey (Miletus) doesn’t make a Civilization. One city in Petra doesn’t extend Greece to Jordan.
The Mehergarh Civilization is Pakistan in every sens of geographic, archeology, sociology, and history. Similarly the Pakistani Civilization was based on the banks of the Indus–hence the name Indus Valley. The Pakistani Civilization did not extend to the Ganges—the Ganges had its own Civilization. Naming India on the Indus is the height of silliness. No country on the planet names itself on the river in a nearby country.
Pakistan is the latest avatar of Melhulla, Bactrai, Gandhara (from Sikandar–Alexander), Khorasan and the Indus Valley. The Valley flourished when there was jungle in Bharat.
Toys for children are no factor to judge the racial or social condition of the IVC. Ken and Barbies come with Negroid features and sold in Swede. That doesn’t mean that Sweden is inhabited by Africans.
You need to meet more Pakistanis, and read some real history. Read “Indus Saga” by Ahtizaz Ahsan, and “History of Pakistan by Ahmed Hasan Dani–one of the worlds foremost archaeologist.
The Pakistani Indus Valley Civlization was hardly a “Line in the sand”–it flourished as a separate, distinct and sophisticated entity for thousands of years–while Bharat was in “Hunter gatherer” stage of human evolution.
Just because the British called 40% of South Asia “India” didn’t make is country. The Dutch called “Indo-nesia” “India”, and the French called Vietname “INdo-China” India. Columbus called the Native Americans “Indians” and a Caribbean island “West Indies”–that didn’t give them any unity–and the nomenclature were inaccurate.
“”Another temple indoctrinated Bharati who cannot fathom real history, and banks on what was taught to them in temples. “”
I’m not a Hindu fyi, but now I suspect you will predictably accuse me of being a jew, protestant, apostate, or whatever strikes the fancy of your paranoid mind. Lets try and debate the topic instead of my identity.
“One town in Turkey (Miletus) doesn’t make a Civilization. ”
It was the genesis of the Greek civilization. The city was home to great minds such as Thales, Anaximander and anaximenes who jump started philosophy. Get an education. Should the Turks claim credit for Greek civilization because the city now falls within their borders? How ridiculous. Your argument sounds dumber than Israelis claiming that falafels and humous are Jewish food and not arabic.
“”The Mehergarh Civilization is Pakistan in every sens of geographic, archeology, sociology, and history.”"”
That’s hilarious considering Pakistan did not even exist until 1947, and niether was the region (which is now pakistan ) seen as something separate and distinct from India. When Babar made his incursions into the region that is pakistan TODAY, he did not see himself invading Pakistan, he was invading India. Was he a temple brainwashed Brahman too?
“Naming India on the Indus is the height of silliness. No country on the planet names itself on the river in a nearby country.”
And the Indian’s didn’t name it, if I recall, you have the ancient Persian’s to thank for that.
“Pakistan is the latest avatar of Melhulla, Bactrai, Gandhara (from Sikandar–Alexander), Khorasan and the Indus Valley. The Valley flourished when there was jungle in Bharat.”
India is a land of contrasts and diverse geography. There is no single Indian race. Just as the continent of North America is comprised of glaciers and blazing deserts, India too is varied. Despite wide genetic diversity, all the people of India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka share a common genetic makeup as they all fall under the H haplogroup. Get a clue buddy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_%28Y-DNA%29).
“Toys for children are no factor to judge the racial or social condition of the IVC.”
On the contrary they are. Ancient peoples created idols and statues in their own image. Even the ancient philosopher Xenophanes noted this as he saw the diverse set idols found in Greece, western Europe and Africa, which lead him to state that if pigs and horses had hands to draw with, their idols too would resemble pigs and horses. Again, get a clue.
“You need to meet more Pakistanis, and read some real history.”
Real history? Like claiming that Pakistan is a 7000 year old civilization whereas the word itself is 63 years old? LOL!
“Just because the British called 40% of South Asia “India” didn’t make is country.”
SO did the Persians, greeks, moghuls.
Again, thanks for the barrel of laughs, this made my day.
@ Mel
Your usage of racist epithets automatically deletes your post. Please correct your behavior and you can see your posts published.
@ Mel
Whether you claim to be a Hindu or not is immaterial. We meet thousands of “Non-Hindus” on this site, who are agnostics, aheists, and even Christians from Bharat–scratch the surface and they are all brainwashed by the temple indoctrination.
Inability of Bharatis to see a different point of view on history is a special trait of Bharatis who live in the world’s largest Nehruistocracy. The US has various versions of its history. There is the popular “How the West was won”–but there is also the Native American version of history which says “How the West was lost”. The US history is not monolithic. There is no official version. While most schools teach the regular history, and a few still eulogize Custer–most discard that version–and teachers bring out “Peoples History of the United States”. Howard Zinn is an icon ans sells millions of books. Noam CHomsky and others have rewritten American history.
Bharat has a billion people–ony one version of history exists. After 63 years, one person wrote a book sulogizing Jinnah (only slightly)–and he had to resign his position. The fact does not matter whether Jinnah was good or evil–it is pedagogical to note that no eulogy of Jinnah exists in a nation of more than 1 billion people. This is not creativity–it is intellectual asphyxiation–the results are seen in a monolith version of robots–incapable of creativity or thougth.
The Bharati version of events in South Asia are not universally accepted, and Pakistanis historians have presented their point of view.
1) The Pakistani Civilization is 7000 years old
2) Islam existed at the time of Moses. Moses, Abhraham, and even Adam were Muslim
These are belief systems of Pakistan and Pakistanis. You do not accept that Abraham was a Muslim–you may be wrong. Muslims accept that version of history.
You are incapable of understanding that Pakistan existed as Melhulla, Bactria, Khorasan, Gandhara in pre-history—and is today called Pakistan. You cannot fathom the historical fact that the geographic unity and topographic contiguity of the people of the Indus is an important factor in the resurrection of Pakistan.
The IVC only existed on the banks of the Indus. The Meherghar Civilization only existed in Pakistan. Therefore they are Pakistani Civilizations. neither the IVC nor the Meherharh people were Hindu. Bharat was jungle then–still in the “hunter-gatherer” stage of evolution.
The Egyptian Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations sparked the Greek Civilization. However the major poleis were Sparta and Athens.
The Greeks actually worshiped their idols, the IVC people did not. No matter how much “mirach masala” you put on the the toy figurine and the bearded toy–they had nothing to do with any of the Hindu icons as we know them today–Ram, Sita, Arjun, Kali Devi, Ghanesh etc. etc. No IVC temples pay homage to Ganesh or Hanuman–because they did not exist in the vicinity—they actually were in a different part of the world———————in Bharat and Lanka
The Peoples Republic of Chins is also 62 years old. Did they have a Chince Civlization? The Arab republic of Egypt is also 62 years old. Was there an Egyptian Civilization? Iraq became independent in the 1920s–is there is an Iraqi/Mesopotamian Civilization? Yes the answer this in the affirmative.
“India” was never a country–it has always been a conglomeration of states. It was around 570 states when the British arrived. During the company raj it had 570 states. During the height of the Crown rule, London had control of only 40% of South Asia–so there was not one country but many with varying degrees of affiliations with Delhi/London.
The myth of Ashoka was created by the British to let the Hindus think that they would be delivered from the Muslims once the Brits left. Ashoka never existed. There is no proof of any contemporary historian talk about him or write about him.
The Arabs called it Sindh and Hindh–but that was in the 8th century–nothing to do with the Indus Valley Civilization. Many Mughals called it Hindustan–and the parameters of Hindustan were limited to the areas that they ruled. Babur was the ruler of Hindustan but that “Hindustan” was a sliver of territory of Northern Bharat.
The French “India” was Vietnam, the Dutch “India” was Indo-Nesia, Columbus’ “India” was America, etc etc etc. Churchil said it best “India is as ephemeral as the equator”.
“Bharat” named itself “Bharat” in its constitution–the actual legal name is Bharat and the constitution says “also known as India in English”
Once again the Pakistani Mehargarh and the Pakistani Indus Valley Civilization had nothing to do with Bharat.
If you want to laugh please visit hinduunity.org, don’t waste our time
At least learn the spelling before claiming it as your own. It is spelled Meluha or Meluhha, not Melhulla as you seem to think. I think you should research more, the truth will enlighten you.
Ravi:
Pray tell which Melhulla to English dictionary did you consult for the spelling. Melhulla is spelt in different ways. I used the spellings used by Dr. Ahmed Hasan Dani, one of the foremost historians and archaeologists of our times.
The word Melhulla is from the Pakistani word Mallah–phonetically it makes sense to place emphasis on the double “L”.
Editor
This is a bit of advice given in good spirit. I see that you have to often repeat your points while the Indian participants consistenly, abusively and ridiculously fail to see your reason and logic behind your assertion.
Your article deserves intelligent responses. Therefore, I request you to refrain from publishing the ignorant articles of these Indian participants who arrogantly despise Pakistan for obvious reasons.
You don’t have to repeatedly clarify your position. Just put one of their negative responses once, rebutt it and then don’t allow them to post the 2nd episode of the same response.
You are simply wasting the precious bandwidth and storage
Dear [...]
I came across interesting article on this topic(written by a Pakistani)
I recommend you read.
http://blog.dawn.com/2010/11/05/dr-q-t-khans-concise-history-of-pakistan-pt-1/
It might help you see the reality.
I am glad that many Dawn.com readers are sensible enough to see the truth and accept it.
If you want your comments to be published please address them to the Editor, or we will trash them. Thanks
Mr. Paracha: We are sure you have written this article because your name appears on it.
However it is an amazing coincidence that your article is very similar to what Mr. Najam Sethi’s said in an interview last week (in which he described Pakistani stories). That interview was a regurgitation of Mr. Amin’s article published in the Dawn a few months back. Amazingly this is exactly was was written in an article posted on HinduUnity.org and repeated on the Indian Express, and Sify.com–in short this is the BJP theme.
With all due apologies, here is our response to your article and Mr. Sethi’s interview.
http://pakhistorian.com/2010/11/03/refuting-mr-najam-sethis-irrationality/
http://rupeenews.com/2010/11/02/refuting-mr-najam-sethis-blasphemy/
Was Salaam
Editor Rupee news
http://www.rupeenews.com
This is the same as the ridiculous Islamic position that Islam started with Abraham and that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all teaching “Islam.”
Like it or not–this is the faith. I know this temple indoctrinatoin doesn’t allow you to see the reality, but this is it, live with it.
It must be nice for the temple indoctrinated to have a monopoly on truth and veracity. It always amazes us that denizens of the worlds largest Nehruistocracy cannot look at any other version of history, except their own. What is most astounding is the fact that that the temple indoctrination in Bharat does not allow any dissenting point of view on history, and only lets the brainwashed population to accept the temple version of events.
One of the oldest civilizations in the world, the Indus Valley civilization flourished over 5,000 years ago in most areas now in Pakistan. Fossilized remains of Stone Age man have also been discovered in the Chakwal district of the Punjab province of Pakistan.
In many ways the Indus civilization was very advanced. It’s great cities with good streets, fine houses, drainage and water systems, police, stable government and peace and prosperity were better than anything that followed in the subcontinent for the next 3000 years. During the same period, those very things existed in civilizations in the Fertile Crescents, Egypt, Crete, and China.
There is more historic and scientific credence of Arabs from Ismael from Abraham. There is more credence even for non Muslims that Islam is a continuation of the Judaeo-Christian faith and every much a Abrahammatic faith then there is on when the blinking hell did Hinduism begin.
There is no real credible recorded history of when Hinduism evolved, but much credence on how it was conjured up by the British.
There is no authentic vedic revelation let alone authentic scripture. people in glass houses should not throw stones – we follow the semitic faith that was perfected in Arabia 1400 years by a descendant (pbuh) of the great semitic prophet and our spiritual father Abraham (pbuh). The orgins of Islam are deeply rooted in the Abrahamamtic faith, traditions, practices, laws and beliefs and we have a complete geneology of our faith where as your kind lives on myths, folklore and pretentious legends.
The Irony is that people trying to prove the science /history of another faith are the very people who belief in 100,000′s of idols of part men and part monkey, part elephant, several armed goddesses painted blue. The Greek Civilisations evolved from mythologies but the Hindu civilisations completely believe the absolute impossible and completely incomprehensive but dare to question others – quite comical really.
HISTORIANs of Mother india;
This perhaps has been most provocative article for aryo centrics, Dravideo-centrics, and all other rscist/creationists of both varieties, biblical and hinduic.
Editor, has really detailed the state of art in ” socio-archealogy/anthropology ; Later on he has also integrated my own perspective ” out of africa and babylon ” the birth of man ,his language/civilization and its later dispersal to all over. Religious labels, hinduic, Abrahamic civilization seems to be clear ” out right political priescraft” as referenced in my work on urdu/hindi an artificial divde–african heritage. The fact is that after Egypto-mesopotamian discoveries ( aby 19 th cent) judeo-christian, hinduic myths/racism has been fully exposed as ” fraudulent priescraft”–NON HISTORY.Their historians look for cover and defence of their bussiness.
As mentioned aready by you one gets to see many fraud off and on to prove indus valley as ” horse driven aryan’ system, comdemned as fraud by Dr Witzel as commented. Also some try to prove the seal signs to read dravidian language–another NO NO. One new one reads sanskrit into it as refenced ( page 361)by me; This one by a USA based group, Fuerestein, KAK & Frawley; They say abt the SEAL:
” THE seals follow the grammatical rules similar to that of sanskrit”
It is very amazing that without even khnowing what is written there they discover Skt’s grammar.
However there has been some truth full linguist/historian; Dr Chatterji had positioned that Civilization from west india ( now pak) to mediteranian/mideast areas had been one continuum for 1000s of yrs. It is so very clear, when one reads ancient arabic ( aramaic) words, rah, maliks, biddat etc used by king Ashoka ( see my book ( page 361-365) in 280BC. And moreover the revelation that all indian scripts are rooted in Aramaic has really killed all notions of ” aryan-hindu/dravidian-hindu” as a separate entities.
NO wonder indian university syllabi even now dont teach egypt/mesopotamia as ” man,s cradle”–acclaimed world wide.
Pakistan as the “Child of Indus” is a meme created by the upper class secularist minority. The purpose is to create a false region based identity for Pakistan as opposed to a religious one. When Pakistan was made Bengal was also a part of it. Is Bengal also a “Child of the Indus?”. What of Baluchistan? Not much Indus there!
Pakistan is actually a federation of many different ethnic & national groups, united only by Islam. The one who claims that Sindhis & Pakhtuns form part of the same Nation is both racially and geographically incorrect. Such a claim may only be made on the basis of religion.
You sir are parroting the Bharati line. If you had the ability to read, you would see that all those questions have been answered. THe British Indian Empire included at times IRaq, Aden, Burma, Lanaka, Afghanistan–that didn’t mean that those countries were part of the so called non-entity defined as ‘India’
In fact the Mehargarh civilization preceded the IVC and all of Pakistanis were part and parcel of that civilization. The Bengalis joined the Indus Valley Civilization now called Pakistan, but they are not geographically part and parcel of it–they belong to the Brahmaputra lands.
Pakhtuns, Baloch, Sindhis, Punjabis, Kashmiris liven up or down the Indus and are part of the same stock