War is inevitable in South Asia. Pakistan has no choice but to fight. Bharati (aka Indian) intransigence and insistence on war mongering will inevitably lead to war which surely will escalate to a nuclear exchange. Bharti insistence on punitive sanctions on Pakistan and a host of boycotts is not reverberating with Washington or London. While both capitals are empathetic to towards Delhi, both capitals are unwilling and unable to take action against Islamabad. Bharat’s military strategy banks on archaic and pre-1998 philosophy does not take into account the new realities in South Asia.
Pakistan Army is equally strong in armor, capable of giving a fitting response to any Indian military adventure. Main Battle tanks Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar are the backbone of Pakistan’s armor Corp’s. Both are Pakistan made. Pakistan’s tank armory comprises :five hundred Al-Khalid MBT’s; 320 Al-Zarrar type 85 II MBT’s, 500 Al-Zarrar MBT’s; 450 79II AP (Chinese type 81 upgrade, and 570 T-80 UD MBT of Ukranian make. In addition Pakistan has 880 Type 59, which were procured from China in 1970.This makes a total of three thousand six hundred and twenty tanks. All Pakistani MBT’s except T-59′s have 125 mm smooth barrel guns. Indian armor offensives in Kashmir, Punjab, and Sind would be effectively challenged by Pakistani armor and mechanized formations, depending on PAF’s ability to keep the skies over the battle areas clear of Indian Air Force. Pakistan Observer. Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R)
Bharat has superiority in numbers in aircraft and men. However, there are huge issues with the aircraft. Bharat’s Flying Coffins make up the bulk of the air force and these are unreliable. In a pre-1998 conflict Bharat would utilize planes to bomb targets. The IAF would then wait for the PAF and then engage it on Pakistani soil and in Bharati air. The would send waves of air craft to disable the PAF. The strategy would be to gain superiority in the air and then take out any army that is advancing towards Bharat to engage the advancing Bharati army.
Air power is likely to play a key, if not a decisive role in any future major or minor India-Pakistan armed conflict. The aim of Indian pre-emptive strikes will be maximum destruction by surprise air attacks, combined with shock commando action. A possibe scenario is; intensive bombing of the target to be followed by attacks by armed helicopters and ground assault by heliborne Commandoes. An overview of Indian Air Force and Pakistan Air Force will help comprehension of IAF’s offensive capabilities, and defensive capabilities of Pakistan Air Force. Indian Air Force has 3000 aircraft including training, transport, helicopters and 800-1000 combat air craft, which operate from sixty air bases, including Farkhor airbase in Tajikistan.. Six hundred IAF’s strike and air defense fighters are expected to be operational. Pakistan Air Force has 630 aircraft, which include 530 combat aircraft, with 400 operational at any time. In 1996 India signed an agreement with Russia for the purchase of 90 Su 30 Mk-1 multi-role fighter-bombers.
Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | ??????? ????? | ???? | Roepienieuws | Rupi Nyheter | ??????? | Notizie di Rupia | PAKISTAN LEDGER | ???????? ????? | RUPEE NEWS | January 14th, 2008 | Moin Ansari | ???? ??????? | ????? ????? |
In 2004 a multi-billion licence was signed for building additional 140. 240 Su30-Mk-1′s were ordered, 120 are already in service. With a maximum speed of Mach 2.3 and range of 8000 Km with refueling and ability to carry tons of conventional munitions and nuclear weapons, it is a lethal and menacing weapon system for the strike and interception role. Other IAF’s advanced strike and combat aircraft are: 51 Mirage-2000 (of Kargil fame), 60 Mig-29′s (for air defense), 250 old Mig-21′s (110 have been refurbished with Israeli help), 47 Jaguars and 70 Mig-27′s for ground attack. 220 LCA Teja’s under manufacture at HAL Bangalore will start entering service in 2010… IAF’s fighter pilots are well trained and have out shone American pilots during joint exercises. Pakistan Observer. Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R)
This conventional wisdom has been made obsolete by three factor:
1) Pakistan has a very large of potent arsenal of short, medium, long range and cruise missiles.
2) Pakistan has more than 150,000 reserve soldiers that are trained to go deep into Bharati territory and cause mayhem and chaos in Bharat.
3) Pakistan has a very large inventory of Nuclear Bombs which will surprise many experts.
The Conventional wisdom dictates that Pakistan will respond with planes. This may not be what will actually happen. Pakistan may simply respond to Bharati attacks with missile attacks on Bharati bases of Udhampur (near Jammu) Leh, Srinagar, Udhampur, Jammu, and Pathankot (total 96 aircraft). Oher targets for Pakistan Hataf 3 and Hataf 4 missiles are the Bharti bases in the Punjab at Amritsar, Adampur 17, Halvara, Chandigarh, Ambala, Bathinda, Sirsa and Suratgarh (Total 332 Aircraft).
Indian Army has eighteen Corps with 34 Divisions including four Rapid Action Divisions, which would spear head ground offensives. Pakistan Army has ten Corps and twenty five divisions. Indian Army has eighteen Infantry, ten Mountain, three Armored, and two Artillery Divisions. Besides it has five Infantry, one parachute, thirteen Air Defense, and four Engineering Brigades, designated as independent formations. In addition there are two Air Defense Groups, and fourteen Army Aviation Helicopter units. This is a sizeable force, capable of launching major offensives from several fronts. The decentralized command structure will be an advantage, as compared to Pakistan’s centralized Army command organization. Pakistan Army has an active force of 620,000 well trained personnel, with 528000 reservists, and 150000 para-military troops. Pakistan armed forces are seventh largest in the world. Pakistan Army’s doctrine of “Offensive Defense”, evolved by General Mirza Aslam Beg was put to test in 1989 in Exercise Zarb-e Momin. The doctrine is to launch a sizeable offensive into enemy territory, rather than wait for enemy strikes or attacks. In case of Indian land offensive Pakistan Army and Air Force will respond with land and air offensives to gain and hold enemy territory. Before embarking on further offensive, gains shall be consolidated. In 1990 the Central Corps of Reserves was created to fight in the desert sectors , where enemy land offensives are expected. These dual capable formations trained for offensive and holding actions are fully mechanized. Pakistan Observer. Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R)
The Shaheens may also land on Rajasthan and Maharshtra. where the Bharti Its fighting units are based at Bikaner, Jaisalmer, Agra, Jodhpur, Uttarlai, Jamnagar and Pune (total 263 aircraft). The Shaheen can also reach Bharat’s two Squadrons of Mirage 2000H at Gwalior which could be a threat to Pakistan (36 aircraft). Within minutes of the strikes against Pakistan 753 of Bhaarti combat aircraft, almost the entire IAF would be in jeopardy.
Pakistan Air Force has 200 rebuilt Mirage- 3′s ( for night air defense) and Mirage-5′s for the strike role. They can carry nuclear weapons. They have been upgraded with new weapon systems, radars, and avionics. Additionally the PAF has 42 F-16′s, 150 F-7′s including 55 latest F-7 PG’s. Manufacture of 150 JF 17 Thunder fighters (jointly designed) is underway at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra. The JF -17 Thunder is a 4th generation fly by wire multi-role fighter aircraft. Eight are already in PAF service. An order has been placed with China for the purchase of 36 JF-10, a Mach 2.3 -5th generation multi-role fighter, comparable in performance to the Su-30 Mk-1 with the Indian Air Force. PAF is on Red Alert, and is maintaining full vigil to intercept and destroy IAF intruders. During the recent air space violation, the IAF intruders were in the sights of PAF’s F-16′s, but were allowed to escape unscathed to avoid a major diplomatic crisis. PAF pilots and technicians are well trained, high professionals, who will be able to prove their mettle in the future battle with India. A comparison of Indian Navy and Pakistan Navy reveals that Pakistan Navy could inflict substantial damage to the Indian Navy. Indian Navy has 16 submarines; Pakistan Navy has ten, some are brand new. Indian Navy has 27 war ships, Pakistan Navy has ten. Indian Aircraft Carrier Veerat, will be a menace, and must be sunk by submarine or air attacks, if it attempts to block Pakistan’s sea lanes or ports. Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R). Pakistan Observer
Pakistan can also take out the Bharti tanks and infantry of the following Bharti corps:
- XI Corps at Jullunder,
- 7th Infantry Division (Ferozepur)
- 9th Infantry Division (Chandimandir)
- 15th Infantry Division (Amritsar)
- 23rd Armoured Brigade
- 55th Mechanised Brigade
- two Strike Corps being two Corps and X Corps at Ambala and Bhatinda, respectively.
- The 2 Corps has 1st Armoured Division, 14th RAPID Division, 22nd Infantry Division and 14th Independent Armoured Brigade while X Corps has the 18th and 24th RAPID Divisions, 16th Infantry Division and 6th Independent Armoured Brigade.
The Pakistani machine is built on missile defense..
Pakistan Army has ten Corps including the newly formed Strategic Corps. The Army has twenty six divisions (eight less than India). Two more divisions were raised as Corps reserves for V and XXXI Corps. Pakistan Army has two armored divisions, and ten independent armored brigades. Presently one hundred thousand troops are stationed on the Pak Afghan border to fight terror. Special Service Group-SSG comprises two airborne Brigades i.e. six battalions. Pakistan Army has 360 helicopters, over two thousand heavy guns, and 3000 APC’s. Its main anti-tank weapons are Tow, Tow Mk II, Bakter Shiken and FGM 148 ATGM. The Army Air Defence Command has S.A- 7 Grail, General Dynamics FIM-92 Stinger, GD FIM Red Eye, and ANZA Mk-I, Mk-II, Mk-III and HQ 2 B surface ti air missiles. Radar controlled Oerlikon is the standard Ack Ack weapon system. The ballistic missile inventory of the Army is substantial. It comprises Ghauri III and Shaheen III IRB’S; medium range Ghauri I and II and Shaheen II, and short range Hatf I- B, Abdali, Ghaznavi, Shaheen I and M -11 missiles. All the ballistic missiles can carry nuclear war heads. Nuclear and conventional weapon capable Babur Cruise missile is the new addition to Pakistan’s strategic weapon inventory. Number of ballistic missiles and war heads are almost the same as India has. So there is a parity in nuclear weapons, which is a deterrent. Pakistan Observer.Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R)
Pakistani missiles can also reach:
- A new naval base that has been built between Mumbai and Cochin at Binaga Bay
- An advance base at Dwarka.
- and the Navy’s Missile Boat HQ is at Colaba.
Indian armor is of Russian origin. Out of 2295 Indian Army’s Main Battle tanks, 2235 are of Russian origin. The main battle tanks are; 310 T-90-S Bishsma’s (300 are on order), 1925 T-72M Ajeya’s.. The T-90 and the T-72 have 125 mm smooth barrel guns. T-72 though old is the backbone of Indian Armor Corp’s. 268 Ajeya’s have been upgraded with Israeli Elbit thermal imaging systems. 1000 T-72 MBT’s are awaiting up-gradation. There have been several instances of T-72′s gun barrel bursting. 124 Indian made Arjun (heavy 56 ton) MBT are on order. Sixty Arjun’s are in operational service. Arjun’s engine overheating problem has not been solved. Arjun has a 120 mm gun, but is unfit or desert operations. Pakistan Observer. Air Marshal Ayaz A Khan (R)
Bharati brinkmanship banks on the fact that Pakistan will not use Nuclear weapons and destroy 250 Bharati cities ending life for South Asia. This calculation may be misplaced. Pakistan under attack will use Nuclear weapons.
One must look at the India’s possible deployment vis-à-vis Pakistan, based mostly on the Indians’ Order of Battle (ORBAT) during the 2002 crisis. The Indian Army has five Commands. The Northern Command at Udhampur near Jammu looks after Kashmir, the Western Command, at Chandimandir, looks after Punjab and Rajasthan with the borderline at Bikaner, the Southern Command at Poona looks after Gujarat and Maharashtra, the Central Command at Lucknow has a Strike Corps, including the 31st Armoured Division meant for the western border and the Eastern Command at Calcutta looks after Counter-Insurgency in Assam and the NEFA border with China. The Pakistani Armed Forces essentially face India’s Northern, Western and Southern Commands. India has troops earmarked against Pakistan as Army Reserve in both the Central and Eastern Commands.
The Northern Command consists of three Corps: XV Corps at Srinagar comprising the 19th Infantry Division (at Baramula) and the 28th (Gurais). XIV Corps at Leh comprising 3rd Infantry Division (Leh) and 8th Mountain Division (Nimer). XVI Corps at Nagrota (Jammu) is a Corps plus with five Infantry Divisions, the 10th (Akhnur), the 25th (Rajauri), the 26th (Jammu), the 29th (Pathankot) and the 39th (Yol). It also has three Independent Armoured Brigades, the 2nd, the 3rd and the 16th. There is an Artillery Brigade with each Corps. The 39th Infantry Division and the three Armoured Brigades are engaged in Counter-Insurgency duties and form the Command Reserve. The other Divisions are all deployed at the Line of Control (LoC).
The Western Command consists of three Corps, XI Corps at Jullunder, deploying 7th Infantry Division (Ferozepur), 9th Infantry Division (Chandimandir) and 15th Infantry Division (Amritsar), 23rd Armoured Brigade and 55th Mechanised Brigade, the two Strike Corps being two Corps and X Corps at Ambala and Bhatinda, respectively. The 2 Corps has 1st Armoured Division, 14th RAPID Division, 22nd Infantry Division and 14th Independent Armoured Brigade while X Corps has the 18th and 24th RAPID Divisions, 16th Infantry Division and 6th Independent Armoured Brigade.
The Southern Command consists of the XII Corps (Jodhpur) with 11th and 12th Infantry Divisions deployed at Ahmedabad and Jodhpur and the XXI Strike Corps (Bhopal) with 33rd Armoured, 36th RAPID and 54th Infantry Division. There are three Direct Reporting Units, 30th Artillery Division, which usually moves to Western Command. The 50th Independent Parachute Brigade and 333rd Missile Groups (India’s nuclear artillery unit having Prithvi missiles) are meant to be deployed from the Southern Command Area to Punjab and Rajasthan. During the 2002 crisis some formations moved from the Eastern Command to areas facing Pakistan, 57 Mountain Division, 2nd Mountain Division and 27 Mountain Division.
The Indian Aerospace Forces (IAF) consists of five operational commands, Western Air Command (New Delhi) controlling air operations from Kashmir to North of Rajasthan, Southwestern Air Command located at Gandhinagar controlling air operations from Rajasthan to Maharashtra, Central Air Command at Allahabad, Eastern Air Command at Shillong and Southern Air Command at Trivandrum. Pakistan is primarily concerned with Western Air Command and Southwestern Command, with 8air deployments from the other Commands.
Western Air Command has an Air Operation Group at Udhampur (near Jammu) dedicated to occupied Jammu & Kashmir. Its fighting units are based at Leh, Srinagar, Udhampur, Jammu, and Pathankot (total 96 aircraft). In Punjab its bases are at Amritsar, Adampur 17, Halvara, Chandigarh, Ambala, Bathinda, Sirsa and Suratgarh (Total 332 Aircraft).
Southwestern Air Command was previously under operational control of Western Command, it now controls air operations in Rajasthan and Maharshtra. Its fighting units are based at Bikaner, Jaisalmer, Agra, Jodhpur, Uttarlai, Jamnagar and Pune (total 263 aircraft). To back these Central Air Command has two Squadrons of Mirage 2000H at Gwalior which can be switched to the other Commands facing Pakistan (36 aircraft). Total deployment against Pakistan in 2002 was in excess of 753 combat aircraft, almost the whole of the IAF.
India’s Navy has three Naval Commands. Western Naval Command at Mumbai provides naval defence of the Arabian Sea. A new naval base has come up between Mumbai and Cochin at Binaga Bay, with an advance base at Dwarka. The Navy’s Missile Boat HQ is at Colaba. Eastern Naval Command, is based at Vizagaptam with a submarine base, it provides naval defence of the Bay of Bengal. The Southern Naval Command at Kochi is mainly a training base. Both the Western and Eastern Naval Commands will be involved in operations against Pakistan. Their surface fleet consists of one aircraft-carrier, 7 guided-missile destroyers, 7 guided-missile frigates, 3 frigates, 4 corvettes, 10 large patrol craft, 5 fast patrol boats, 3 fast-attack missile boats and 18 minesweepers. They have 1 nuclear-powered submarine and 13 diesel-powered submarines in service (1 Foxtrot Class, 9 Sindhughosh Class and 3 Shashikumar Class). India’s Naval Air Arm with HQs at Goa consists of a squadron of Jaguars and Sea Harriers each, other than 6 Sea-Kings and 20 Cheetak helicopters. The Jaguar squadron (at Poona) is operated by the IAF.
The Indian Navy, which focuses on anti-ship capabilities with an emphasis on attack submarines, has the capacity to support a multi-service heliborne-cum-para-cum amphibious operation, provided it has adequate air cover. This amphibious capability is built around 304th Army Independent Brigade at Vizagapatam. Their Marine Commando Force (Marcos for short) is based at Mumbai, Cochin and Vizagapatam. The Indian Navy has a heavy lift capacity with 2 new 5,600-ton Magar Class Landing Vessels with 4 Landing Craft Vehicles and Personnel (LCVP). Four Polnochny-class vessels have helicopter platforms. They also have 7 locally built 500-ton Landing Craft Utility (LCU). They also have 11 Cosmos midget submarines of Italian origin that can ride the back of Foxtrot-class submarines.
The Indians can deploy four Strike Corps against Pakistan, one each against the Southern part of Azad Kashmir, Central Punjab, Southern Punjab and one against Sindh. They have the necessary balance to focus their attack in a combination of two or even three corps but time and space dictate they cannot move more than one strike corps on any axis and they have to cater for our counter-offensive. Since no ground offensive is possible in the desert without heavy air cover, their air deployment in 2002 suggested that the focus of their strike corps could well be in the south (Western and Southern Commands). One should expect a combined heliborne, para and/or amphibious operation. Both the Indian Strike Corps, 2 Corps from Western Command at Jaisalmer and 21 Corps at Barmer from Southern Command could be reinforced with additional Divisions from Eastern Command (moving through Jodhpur) and have integral Helicopter Attack Squadrons, Engineer, Artillery and Air Defence Brigades. The deployment of the Army’s Direct Reporting Unit, 30th Artillery Division will give the fulcrum of the lines of attack. Jodhpur in 2002 had a concentration of heavy lift MI-8/M-17 helicopters, supplemented by AN-32s at Agra, Gwalior and Chandigarh. Agra is the peace station for another Direct Reporting Unit, the 50th Independent Parachute Brigade.
With all 3 Armoured Divisions and all 4 RAPID Divisions and at least 2 out of 5 Independent Armoured Brigades concentrated in Rajasthan, the resource allocation makes their offensive targets obvious, along the Jaisalmer-Rahimyar Khan axis or along the Barmer-Mirpurkhas axis, most probably both. They could also possibly attempt helicopter troop transportation/amphibious LST and launch XXI Strike Corps for a link-up. They practiced this in 2002. The area between Badin and Sujawal east of the Indus thus becomes vulnerable. Given Pakistan’s counter-riposte potential this could end up being “a bridge too far.” The Indian Navy cannot blockade Karachi Port with the same impunity they did in 1971, our Exocet-armed Mirages and enhanced submarine fleet will keep them well off-shore, even outside our 200 miles territorial limit. Our Navy would love to get the Indian aircraft-carrier within combat aircraft range.
In 2002 Indians moved Directly Reporting Unit 333rd Missile Group consisting of 3 Prithvi Batteries with 4 launchers each to the border areas. Their two Strike Corps in the Rajasthan Desert (2 and XXI) provide a better target for a possible Pakistan tactical nuclear strike. If at anytime our conventional forces lose ground threatening our North-South communications, we will use the weapons at our disposal.
Pakistan has no desire for war but it may be forced on us. We will certainly have grievous casualties and horrific damage in a conventional war even without a nuclear exchange. Unfortunately, we have no option but to fight.The writer is a defence and political analyst. Email: isehgal@pathfinder9.com. India’s possible war deployment, Thursday, January 15, 2009 Ikram Sehgal
Delhi’s war deployment details: Pakistan has no choice but to fight
Delhi’s Cold Start Strategy frozen DOA (Dead on Arrival)
Pakistani response to India’s Cold Start Strategy
Neutralizing Delhi’s Surgical strikes
Hot War: A response to Cold Start
Pakistan is not Hizullah and Bharat is not Israel
India’s Cold War Strategy and the Pakistani Nuclear Response
Pakistani defense based upon Missle Nuclear deterrent Shaheed, Ghauri, Babar, & Abdali
Nuclear Armeggedon in South Asia: Analysis
Between the Devil & the Deep Sea–India’s vulnerability in the Malacca Straits & the Ariabian Sea
If you are so much powerful then why have you lost 1971
Proof
http://im.sify.com/sifycmsimg/dec2007/News/14576041_1.jpg
Priyanka: You said that there was nothing going in in Assam. We showed you a lot. Instead of admitting your incorrect information you switched subjects on us.
Remember the Battle of Panipat? Whenever you want to gloat about the happening of 1971 think about the 1000 years of defeat, slavery, humiliation and conquest from 750 AD to 1857. Also Bharat lost two wars in 2002 and 2008 without firing a bullet. Your great victory in 1948 led to the liberation of Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir which was supposedly Bharti territory signed over to Delhi. Where is that now? In Pakistan
Oh! Yes, discuss December 16th, 1971, but forget the 1000 years of servitude by Muslims. You eulogized the great Northeast, the poorest state in Bharat and the world, but discuss the RAW agents which are being exterminated like vermon in Swat.
Oh yes, let me say, every time you want to celebrate 1971, remember what happened to the Rakhi Bhani and Mujib on 14th August 1975. BD is making sure that all of Bengal, Orrissa and Bihar will be a Muslim majority area in the next 20 years. The 450 million dlaits will eventually convert to Islam…they have no choice.
Its great to look down on your PC and mention 1971…just go outside and LOOK UP…in Delhi, Mumbia, Kalkota, Lucknow, even Benaras.The towering minarets and the domes of mosques will remind you of the thousands of defeats which led to the conquest of Bharat by Muslims from 750-1947..and it continues today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFmCM9DAHAY
I am also a muslim too
Priyanka:
Then you should be ashamed of yourself siding with Brahman thinking which has attempted to brainwash into thinking that Gandhi was something that he was not and thinking about Pakistan through Hindu eyes.
Will the real Priyanka please stand up!
The Battle of Panipat was between India and Pakistan………………great…………………we can really mould the history by the twisted words?
Then perhaps when APJ Abdul Kalam became President of india, then India became a part of Pakistan??????????????????????????
On which account Bharat lost two wars in 2002 and 2008 ………….and ………..Pakistan own……………..and by the way i think in your opinion Pakistan deserved the two wars where India did a great mistake by avoiding it?
And after loosing a part of your own land still you expect more war? Or you have gifted the land to Bangladesh and Muslim brothers living there?
When Muslims ruled India then India was ruled by Pakistan………………again a great theory…………………….so invariably all the Muslims living through all ages and all all regions were Pakistanis.
And today IRAQ, IRAN, ARAB, GULF, BANGLADESH etc .etc. all are part of Pakistan……………………………….Quite interesting
my real name is Tarique but my email ID is priyanka.
and i am not against any 1 I am just wy my contry.every muslim must love his contry.being an indian muslim i love india
Of course Pakistan is a successor state to Mahmud of Ghazni and the Mughal Empire and draws it’s inspiration from all the Mughals, specially Aurenzeb the greatest Mughal
Turkey is the successor state of the Ottomans and Egypt is the successor state to the Seljuks
Iran is the successor state to the Sassanids
What is so strange about this?
Nothing wrong with loving your country but I don’t know of any Muslim who speaks against a Muslim country
Read 2:62
Priyanka: If you are Muslim, kindly answer this quesiton which EVERY Muslim knows. What is the first letter during sigda? and the last letter during rukuh.
hahah…a nation which consists of all the converts(hindu to muslim)…thinks they are the successor of the moguls and turks..very funny….and this pseudo-intellectual Moin is quite fun reading…you pakistanis just try to take our afghan identiy…in the end you are a nations of converts…you bring a bad name to islam,,and do nt deserve it,you converts..
An bigoted Bharati (aka Indian) sitting in Delhi with an email address of NYC, acting as an Afghan, lamenting about Pakistanis—Wow! This guy has less credability than a used car salesman selling a defunct idealogy and a dying cult called Brahmanism.
The world awaits the liberation of 450 million Dalits and Untouchables–held in bondage to the mentality that forces 40% of the worlds poorest to call themselves Bharatis.
The spit shine on the Veer Chakkar doesn’t hide the disgusting mentality that still considers 170 million Muslims as former-Hindus–even after a thousand years of repeated repudiation of that warped thinking.
The Hindus were also Buddhiss and Jians and animal worshippers at one time–as they came down the riverines–they are now facing a Non-Hindu Bharat as defined by Dr. Kancha’s latest book “Post-Hindu India”.
Muslims are all equal and Islam was spread in South Asia through Sufis–not invasion
I really wonder … who is killing those inocent people praying in the mosque’s … Shias… and Sunnis too …
Why is Saudi attacking Yemenis ?? Why are Saudis afraid of Iranians ??.. why Dadulla is fighting Iranians … Why .. TTP is exploding Bombs inside pakistan.. eventhough they are pakistanis by birth …
Now dont enhance my knowledge by saying the same mantra as everybody … Its RAW…
as if u say that ,,, it will be RAW who will be ruling saudi ..technically speaking …
If ur taught K to be read as Y… right from ur birth time … u will never ever forget that .. and u will also think that it is the right thing … same as ur taught ur history wrongly … u think otherwise … Ur history starts at being a muslim and ends at being a muslim … ignoring the fact that Mohenjedaro and Haddapa civilisations are there right under ur nose… which ur denying … that ever exisited ..only becaus its pre muslim era … what else proof u want of ur ignorance of history …. Be realistic… and check the history which is NOT taught by ur histrory teachers …and belive me .. this is for ur own good …try reading books which are not written by pakistanis …only then u will have some kind of enhancement in ur knowledge… i mean .. the real thinggy …
Zoro–Another product of the Bharati temple indoctrination. Pakistan history begins 150,000 years ago on the banks of the Soan where the first Pakistanis roamed–then in the oldest agricultural civilization on the planet in Mehargarh–then in the heart of Pakistan–the IVC–the latest avatar of the IVC is of course Pakistan resurrected as a political entity–what has existed for 7000 years as a political reality
PS: We do not accpet any free advice from anyone…so you can save it. When we need advice we pay for it and get it from professionals we trust
The Bharati merecenaries supporting the TTP thugs are murdering Muslims
People (both pakis[tani] and Indians),
What you pple fail to understand and keep on crying is the utter nonsense that the political and military guys want you to believe. For my paki[tani] friends, Pakistan is still fighting over Kashmir, for the people on the outside (I mean off course India and the non muslim world)its difficult to understand why . Off course at first go you would say its your Muslim brethren and off course being a muslim dominated region it should have come to you. But the real reasons lie somewhere else. Where was this insurgency prior to late 1980s. the answer is Punjab. The fact is Pakistan bcoz of Bangladesh defeat and humiliation had to give a tit for tat; and that if I am in a Paki[tani] general’s shoes off course understandable. I am not denyin it.
Second, The siachin issue again it was a breach.
Third, Pakis[tani] have to keep india in check or else India could rise to a level where Pakistan cold not further keep them in check. Now you would argue We have you in check and all. But plese for heaven’s sack dont rant up any problems goin on in india, every nation goes thru it. No nation is immuned to it. For that matter You right now have a home grown pitbull which you had for India, bittin your own master.
Thitrdly pakis[tani] want Kashmir and mind you this is the primary reason “The water dispute”. All the three rivers that end up in Pakistan orginates in Kashmir. However India could fiddle around and yes it is fiddling, and thereby render the agri business and thereby cripple the agri economy. Now the Pakis[tani] hav tried in past 65 yeasr or so to get a proper justice but couldnt and yeae they resorted to the last thing available “proxy war” to secure this region.
To my Indian friends, news fed to Pakis[tani] are usually propganda we all know it. But then you have to understand, no govenrment can survive in pakstan without self manifistation. That has how things been in Pakistan. Forget all the other 1971, 1999 wars. No matter how much you argue or give the facts, they will not accept that they lost it. The recent ajmal kasab case too many Pakis[tani] refuse to accpet he is a Paki[tani] (atleast I have read it in various paki[tani] forums). This was inspite of that fact that it was accpeted by the government,exposed by their own media and accpeted by ajmal’s parents as well.
I wont be surprised if I get totally evasive responses for this post. Anyways that’s how usually the pakis[tani] respond. However it would be appreciative if I could get a constructive response on this.
Editors Note: Please do not use the deragatory four letter word for Pakistanis, if you wish your comments to be published. To avoid being banned, please use the proper term Pakistani
Another specimen of temple indoctrination.
Not sure how one can respond to someone who has a monoploy on all facts–and will not consider anyone else’s point of view. If you reject the other’s opinion and have a low opinion of the others–surely isn’t this seed for conflict.
Not sure what “news fed to Pakistanis” means. Pakistani cable network carry Bharati channels, VOA, BBC, Radio Deutchevella, Al-Jazeera, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, AIR, Akashwani, TNN, CBS etc etc and about 80 Pakistani news and views channels covering a spectrum from leftinst communist to rightist view points. Nor sure what your comment meant. Of course it showed ignorance about Pakistan. Pakistanis also get the Indian radio and magazines and newspapers over the net and in print form. Your comment is silly at the least and bigoted at worse–trying to put Pakistanis is some sort of sterotypical box.
Pakistan also has WiMax and the largest concentration of cell phones in the world. Pakistan access to the planet.
But you wouldn’t know that–your version of Pakistan places all Pakistanis as gun toting beareded mullah. Right? Well wrong.
Obviously you don’t have access to history books or you would have learned about the Poonch insurrection against the Dogra in Mirpur Khas, and the Gilgit insurrection against Srinagar in in 47 and even before. Obviously your libraries do not carry Alistair Lamb’s books which clealry describe Kashmir history. The sad thing is that even Rajatarangini’s Kalhana is not taught in Bharat because he describes Brhaman massacres in Kashmir. Jawarlal Nehru wrote about all this in “Glimpses of world History“. But who can compete with those who know it all.
Our entire site is a response to your mentlaity. There are 4000 articles on it which all respond to the mental illness of those who cannot see truth. 2 million readers have visited out site in the past few weeks and we provide stories to all the search engines as a news source. We are also growing exponentially and many corporations purchase our conntent.
The struggle for Kashmiri lilberation started before the indepdence of 1947. For Muslims there is not difference.
1931: Kashmir’s first organized protest: The people of Kashmir hold their first organized protest against Maharajah Hari Singh’s cruelty. The 1931 protest led to the “Quit Kashmir” campaign against the Maharajah in 1946, and eventually to the Azad KashmirAzad Kashmir
March 23, 1940: Pakistan Resolution passed: The Pakistan Resolution is passed at Iqbal Park. The resolution demands the establishment of an independent state comprising all regions in which Muslims are the majority. The letter “K” in the word “Pakistan” represents Kashmir.
The current uprising of the people of Kashmir starts out as a protest against inefficiency and corruption and terrorism sponsored by Pakistan.
1948: India brought the issue to the United Nations Security Council in January 1948. The rebel forces had been joined by volunteers from Pakistan and India charged Pakistan with having sent “armed raiders” into the state. It demanded that Pakistan be declared an aggressor in Kashmir. Furthermore, India demanded that Pakistan stop aiding Militants, and allowing the transit of tribesmen into the state.
After acceptance of these demands, coupled with the assurance that all “raiders” were withdrawn, India would allow a plebiscite to be held under impartial auspices to decide Kashmir’s future status.
January 24, 1957: UN Security Council reaffirms 1948 resolution:
1965: The Indian Parliament passes a bill declaring Kashmir a province of India. Kashmiris revolt and are aided by Pakistanis and Afghans.
December 8, 1989: Kidnapping of Rubaiya Sayeed1989 kidnapping of Rubaiya Sayeed
The 1989 kidnapping of Rubaiya Sayeed was an act carried out by members of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front, a Kashmiri Muslim militant organization, on December 8, 1989 in Jammu and Kashmir. Rubaiya was the daughter of Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, the then Home minister of India in the V. P. Singh…
February 5, 1990: Solidarity day is observed throughout Pakistan ever year. Kashmir this year too was shut down to confirm solidarity with Pakistan. http://rupeenews.com/2010/02/07/kashmir-chenab-solution-confirmed-by-un-resolutions/
Jaswant Singh also talks about the history but who can say anthying against one who has all encompassing truth under his belt.
Bharat has been sending terror to Pakistan all through the ages. One of the worst terror incidents in Pakistan was the blowing up of 300 innocent civilians in Bohri Bazaar Karachi–carried out by Khad/RAW/KGB and many in Khad and the KGB have admitted to it. Bharat sent bombs into Pakistan to dissuade Pakistan from supporting their Afghan brethren. It did not stop Pakistan then and it will not stop Pakistan now.
Obviously you have your opinions on Pakistan. The world has rejected the Bharati point of view and excluded Delhi from the London Conference on Pakistan. Pakistan is now the gatekeeper of Kabul–and henceforth there will be a confederation between Afghanistan and Pakistan–and consolidation of EU the Muslim Common market like the EU (all the former Soviet republics, Iran, Turky, Afghansitan and Pakistan).
You remind Pakistanis about 1971 while you are bent low in a room staring at your screen and typing. Stop! Go outside and look at the skyline. You will see minarets and domes reminding you of 1000 years of Muslim rule–in Delhi, Mumbai, Benaras, Agra, andy Bharati city. It will remind you of who ruled these lands, and walk softly and don’t make too much noise…or they will come back. One day you may comprehend the difference between a battle and a war. Post 1971, Pakistan became a Nuclear Power, and de fanged the numerical advantage of Bharat.
Bharat today faces belligerent Bangladesh growing towards Brihot (Greater Bangldesh) which growing encroachments into West Bengal, Bihar and Orissa. So 1971 was ephemeral and just another day–while the Muslims of Bengal are growing by leaps and bounds in numbers. Worse still, Nepal wants to be pro-Chinese and will be if the Naxals have anything to do with it.
If anyone has to introspect, it is Delhi–why is it that Lankans, Nepalese, Maldivians, Chinese, even Bangladeshis, and Pakistanis all hate Bharat and Bharatis. The same countries are freinds with each other and with China and their neighbors. So there must be something wrong with Bharat and your thinking.
Forget about what Ajmal’s parents said–read the court proceedings. He has denied that he was part of the Muambi massacre. He blamed it on the local Indians. He was incapable of reading or writing a confession in Marhati. The local Indian spoke Hindi and used Mubami dialect–words not used by Pakistanis (Hindustan Times Story). How could the terrorists get into the Taj–the front entrance was blocked with metal detectors. They went through the kitchen through entrances known only to employees. How did the terorists evade the worlds most fortified seashore, walk from the beach and then hail a cab when they were carrying so many arms?
The problem for Bharat lies in Khalistan, Mizuram, Bodoland, Talingana, Assam, Kashmir, and 40% of the land that is in the control of the Naxals and Maoists. Dr. Kancha a Dalit has written a recent book called “Post Hindu India” in which he predicts that the 450 million Dalits will be liberted when the convert fom “Hinduism” to Christianity and Buddhism. Bharat will then be left with a rump “Hindu”–Brahman minority engulfed in a sea of Non-Hindus. Will it break up into 50 states–possibly a few. Shiv Sena is making sure that Maharashtra becomes the republic of Maharashtra and Modi is making sure that Gujarat becomes the republic of Gujarat. Assam and Kashmir don’t want anything to do with Delhi.
General Maknekshaw in his book wrote that he drafted 80,000 Hindus from all over India into the Mukti Bahni…that, Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, RS Sangh, and the BJP are the root of all terror in South Asia.
The recent finding that one of the perpetuators of Mumbai was an Indian secret service agent confirms our point of view that Mumbai was a duplicate of Samjhota Express which was blown up by Prohit a member of the Indian Army who used Indian Army issued explosives.
You have gotten direct answers. Obviously you will not accept them. The purpose of this response was not to force you to accept them–you already know all truth on the planet.
Slumdog India will be defeated
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http://www.BoycottIndia.wordpress.com
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http://www.HinduTERRORISMinPakistan.wordpress.com
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http://www.Gandhi-Bath-Gandhi-Douche.webs.com
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Slumdog India is not a foolish country and it knows very well that if it stupidly commenced the onslaught of a terrorist Gandhi attack against Pakistan, then :
1) Brave and highly professional Pak army will teach Slumdog India and its Slumdog Hindu army a painful lesson.
2) Entire Pakistani nation will rise and join our Brave Pak army to teach a painful lesson to Slumdog India.
3) Talibans of Afghanistan & Uzbekistan will proceed towards Pakistan to join us in our International Jihad against Slumdog India.
4) Mujahideens from all over the world will start to arrive in Pakistan to participate in this International Jihad against Slumdog India.
Slumdog India is only issuing periodic threats to Pakistan and Merciful China, because it is presently backed by the three biggest terrorists of the world, Nazi USA, Cockroach Britain & Genocidal Israel.
Hey, you Slumdog India —— We will see you in the battlefield and then —— Slumdog India will go down the same road as Russia.
And then, there will be peace in the entire region of ASIAN SUBCONTINENT.
Our region is called, Asian subcontinent and not Indian subcontinent.
Finally, come to Germany and ask the Srilankans about Slumdog India. You will find over 90% Srilankans expressing their deep hatred against Slumdog India because of its support for the Tamil terrorists. Those who are unaware of this fact, must know that the LTTE (Tamil) terrorists were created by Fascist Gandhi – 1 (Indra Gandhi) and nourished by Fascist Gandhi – 2 (Rajiv Gandhi) and then were fully supported by the successive governments and prime ministers of Slumdog India.
Slumdog India is deeply and fiercely hated by the Srilankans and rightly so.
Sultan Salahuddin Ayyubi
Germany
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Boycott_Slumdog_India@yahoo.com
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http://www.IslamicHeroes.wordpress.com
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http://www.BoycottIndia.wordpress.com
I’m worried that the Pit bull requires a particular sort of proprietor…these pet dogs, no matter how ‘trusting’ still have teeth, are nevertheless animals with out moral principles and when they DO bite, won’t allow go. As in all creatures…some tend to be a lot more suseptable to instinctual behavior and time and time again, this breed tends to accomplish just that.
Hmm…I never got to know what book Manekshaw wrote!!! It can be like the Mormon Bilble or the quaran….Ansari saab read the book in his dreams!!!
So the number game in west bangal is required to claim this oneday as a muslim land!! But the same number game cannot hold for Hyderabad (83% hindus) because it had a muslim prince. and the same prinely logic cannot work in Kashmir because now you must count the numbers.
And the muslim sites for 100 years must be recokned with but the Sahi dynansty of Kabul was some stray ephemeral event and the 1000 years before that quickly passed by in pakistan coz we are embarrassed to think of that.
And Maoist and insurgents in Khalistan and Mizoram are freedom loving patriots but Mujib was a traitor and Akbar Khan Bugti an infamous dacoit and RAW plant. and all uncircumcized uzbeks are hindus!!! This fact can benefit India greatly……
And of course Bollyewood is pornography as we have closed cinema halls all over pakistan coz we stand for virtue. Wonder why can’t the glorious people in a pure land see the virtuous cinema instead of buying smuggled dvds?
About afgans…I shot a documentay in Afganistan in 2008. The driver told me when a dog dies it becomes Pakistani. No point in mentioning it as ultimate proof of anything..he of course was a common man. It is just to inform Mr Ansari that people do go around and everything is not hankydory between across the durand line.
you think muslims do not follow caste system in india? I could have given other links..but decided to give this from a islamic web-site….its a Q&A and see a muslim asking a very practical question about caste systems within muslims in India.
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212394716007&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
Further, a few days back the Supreme Court denied a PIL raised by a muslim body asking for reservation under OBC quota.
Hmmm…..
How is it decided tha Pakistan is a successor state to mughals? By the gardens of Lahore??
During the 1857 war, what role did the great Punjabi, Sindhi, Baloch and Azad Kasmiri muslims play to come to help the last Mughal emperror?? The muslim and hindu sepoys came from the so called land of Ganges…from Kanpur, Meerut, Lucknow, Jhansi, Allahabad, Ambala, even in Dhaka……but not much besides the banks of Indus..one must observe.
The sucessor state of Mughals remained pretty quiet then it seems. And going by the now famous IVC DNA theory that proves beyond doubt that all pakistanis are from IVC and no such trace is extant in Ganges…one must..sadly if, come to the conclusion that this particular DNA does not make men proud or patriotic enough to come to rescue of their great prent civilization of which they demand sucessorhood. Very sad indeed.
Do you still claim sucessorhood???
The US claims the legacy from the Romans and the Greeks. Looking at the architecture of America, it went through the Moorish period, and the Moorish based Gothic architecture–and then it finally settled on Greek and Roman architecture. The Greek and Roman symbology is everywhere–in history books, in arts, literature, and painting.
Similarly, the symbology of the Mughals and the Ottomans is omnipresent in Pakistan–in its architecture, currency, cuisine, dress, language, music etc etc. The Nizam of Hyderabad had aptly captured a lot of this–and in 1947 it was transferred to Karachi and used in Pakistan. Look at any coin, or any currency note–you will see Ottoman and Mughal symbols in them.
Your inability to differentiate between geography and ideology is typical of the temple indoctrination that cannot get beyond the constraints of ethnicity and and linguistic bondage, and caste slavery. Other nations do not think the way you guys do. Ethnicity is number five on a list of identification factors. Even then, it is at very low intensity. This is incomprehensible to Bharatis, so we do not expect you to understand this. The usual retorts fail to comprehend the shallowness of this approach. Bharat’s states based on ethnicity have been a colossal failure. Pakistan is now proposing new provinces (walayats) which are not based on language or ethnicity.
Your selective use of facts from 1857 represents the usual diatribe against the Muslim majority provinces. Another way to demonize Muslims in Bharat and make them feel alien, or represent the PUnjabis and the Pathans are anti-freedom In actual fact it was just a few feudal lords and the Sikhs who forcibly recruited the poor farmers to fight for the British.—just like the forced the Rajputs, Gorkhas and the Sikhs and many others.
It is not me that claims successorhood–the entire Pakistani nation revolves around the Mughal era–in every aspect of their lives. Much to your chagrin, Aurenzeb is the hero, and Akbar the villian!
The term “caste” in Pakistan has a totally different connotation. It is not the same. In the Punjab the caste could be “Gujjar” or Arain”—this does not create untouchability or superiority–it simply identifies people. The Gujjar Caste member may think his ‘caste” is better, and the Arain may feel his “caste” is better. It ha no relevance to any law, or social status. There are rich Arians and poor Gujjars, and poor Arians and Rich Gujjars. It is as meaningless as the Mcdonald or Oriel Clan in Scotland–with their symbols and banners.
There are not untouchables in Pakistan. If Indian Muslims are constrained by society to treat Dalits a certain way–that is a Bharati problem based on Hinduism. Hindu influences on Muslims are being purged in Pakistan–and all this sort of nonsense has to be thrown into the dustbin of history. The Pakistani constitution does not recognize caste as any factor in anything–neither do any other laws.
Your quote contradicts your point of view. The best you could do was to find a discussion group? The only authentic sources of Islamic jurisprudence is Quran, Hadith, Fiqah and Sunnah–none can contradict the Quran. I am not under any compulsion to believe anything any so called scholar says–I have the book and it tells me what to do…it tell me that all Muslims are equal
Every Muslim knows that Allah said what means:
*{the best amongst you at the sight of God are the most pious.}* (Al-Hujurat 49:13)
The Prophet also said:
“An Arab has no advantage over a non-Arab, a white person has no advantage over a black person, and a black person has no advantage over a red person, except with piety and good deeds.”
TO SOMEHOW JUSTIFY THE HORRID CASTE SYSTEM OF THE HINDUS–YOU ARE SCROUNGING AT THE BOTTOM END–BRINGING UP INSIGNIFICANT SOCIOLOGICAL HINDU INFLUENCED ISSUES–WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM–EVEN YOUR SCHOLAR SAYS THAT
However, sociological studies on the social structure of Muslims in India have proved the strong presence of descent-based social stratification among them that has serious implications on their quality of life and development, which is un-Islamic.
As it is only a few thousand families came to South Asia from Persia and Arabia—and today there are 450 million Muslims. All this could not have happened if the caste system had been perpetuated. In fact many of your co-religionists constantly berate Pakistanis as ex-Hindus. Could it have been a self-defense mechanism that prevented the total dissolution of Muslims in a sea of Hindus? Certainly Moinuddin Chisti, Data Ganj Baksh and others did not believe in this. They allowed all to their preaching–and their goodness converted the Hindus. We are not sure what all this nonsense quoted by Aamir is–no Muslim believes in this garbage.
Not sure what PIL and OBC means. Whatever!
Ottoman Empire used to rule North Africa, Balkans and Middle East for 700 years In total it ruled an area of more 20million (sqkm) which make up at least 22 coutries but only Turkey claims successor state of ottoman even though it was turkey which abolished the Caliphate No one says Iraq or Romania is successor state. And 1857 mutiny was largely bengalis which was once part of Part of pak, in either case there is no Bharat in it.
Inability to differentiate between legal and illegal places Bharat into the bottom box of world penury and the hungriest nation on the planet–a millstone on South Asia.
Hyderbabad did not want to be part of Bharat–just like Nepal did not incorporate itself into Bharat–Being Hindu or not not is not he issue on Hyderabad. Can Bharat produce an article of accession for Hyderabad? No. The state was illegally taken over by Patel’s Police Action with muct resistance from the Hindus and Muslim Razakars numbering 50,000–we have already ben through that, haven’t we.
Kashmir is disputed territory. Bharat claims that the article of accession is lost–as if it ever existed. The dates are all wrong..the people who were supposed to be present to sign the article were not present inthe same palce on Acotber 27th. Then there is the inconvenient truth that Bharati forces had already landed on october 26th in Srinagar.
Mujib was a traitor–according to the Bangladeshis–he was killed and repudiated by his own people in a mass uprisign against his “dictator for life” and Rakhi Bahni excesses–his body lay in the streets for days. He was stripped of his titles. Half the Bangldeshis even today consider him a horrid figure. Of course he was a traitor for Pakistan. No rocket science in that.
Bugti was hiding in a reenforced bunker inside a cave with heavy artillery and an anti-aircraft gun. If he was preparing for battle–he got it. This being said–there is a large body of Pakistani political opinion thet did not like the act. Both the PPP and the PMLN are against the killing of Bugti–despite his provocations. One of his son agreed with Musharraf’s actions and the other one does not.
“Sahi dynasty”? of Kabul was SHAHI DYNASTY:
The Shahi dynasty of Kapisa/Kabul or Gandhara was a foreign dynasty and had descended from the Kushans or Turks. Alberuni is considered the most authentic account of South Asia at the time. He says that the Shahi rulers were Turks. Alberuni connects the earlier Shahis of Kabul/Kapisa to Turkish extraction and also claim their descent from Kanik (or Kanishaka of Kushana lineage). Shahi Family. Encyclopædia Britannica. 2006. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 16 Oct. 2006
Some ancient Jian works like Kalakacarya-kathanaka rocliam it as theirs. Jains are not Hindus–no matter how loudly Hindus claim Jians to be Hindus.
Olaf Caroe says in the History of the Pathans
“the earlier Kabul Shahis in some sense were the inheritors of the Kushana-Hephthalite chancery tradition and had brought in more hinduised form with time. There does not yet exist in the upper Kabul valley any documentary evidence or any identifiable coinage which can establish the exact affinities of these early Shahis who ruled there during the first two Islamic centuries” Olaf Caroe
Based on Alberuni’s accounts, V. A. Smith states that the earlier Shahis were a cadet branch of the Kushanas who ruled both over Kabul and Gandhara until the rise of Saffarids.
H. M. Elliot relates the early Kabul Shahis to the Kators and further connects the Kators with the Kushanas.
D. B. Pandey traces the affinities of the early Kabul Shahis to the Huns.
West Bengal was mentioned when you were beating your chest about the Bharati victory in Bengal. That ephemeral victory is now causing eternal problems for Delhi—and “Brihot Bangladesh” will eventually take over all of Lord Clive’s Bengal–no one can stop that.
All in not well on the Radcilff Line, or the Macmohan Line either. The Durand Line was erased in the 90s, and today it is held together by the ISAF and NATO. As soon as they leave, it will once again become the “friendliest border in the world”–NON-EXISTENCE. Based on Hindustan Times reports, and Bharati consulate requests “for personal leave out of Afghanistan”–Bharati presence will soon be ending–despite bluster by Ms. Rao and Mr. Krishnan loudly proclaiming “Bharat will stay the course”.
I could tell you a few tales about what the Afghans think of Bharatis–but it would be anecdotal and therefore not really valid. A few more firecrackers in Kabul will show who the dog is in Kabul.
Not sure what the Morman Bible or the Quran has to do with Manekshaw–but you guys who are not Hindu–it must be some quirk that says “all Mulsims are bad”.
Here is the information Manekshaw’s authenticated biography with sections written by Manekshaw himself.
Making a leader – By Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw
Edited extract from Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw’s lecture at Defence Services Staff College, Wellington,November 11th 1998. Quoted in Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw: Soldiering with dignity by Lt Gen Deepinder Singh (Natraj Publishers, Dehradun, 2nd Ed, 2002)
First published online at Pragati – The Indian National Interest
Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw’s personal biography – “Soldiering with Dignity”
This book is Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw’s biography with special emphasis on his term as the Chief of Army Staff. It has been written by none other than his Military Assistant Lt. Col. Depinder Singh (later Lt. Genl.) who was always at Manekshaw’s side during the latter’s entire tenure as Chief of the Staff of the Indian Army. This is an excellent portrait of a soldier with vision, competence, compassion and courage.Perhaps, the one part of this book which is a lesson for most men and women employed in various organisations, not necessarily the armed forces, but in any role involving an organisation with small or large teams, is Manekshaw’s own definition of leadership. This treatise has been drawn from his enormous experience of a long stint in one of the World’s largest armies that he commended with distinction from 1969 to 1973, as a four star General and Chief of Army Staff. He later rose to become India’s first Field Marshal, and continues to hold that position.Sam, as the Field Marshal was popularly known throughout his thirty nine odd years of active Army life, was invited in 1998, by the Defence Services Staff College, India’s premier Defence Institution which trains Officers from the three arms of the services to be groomed for senior level appointments, to lecture on Leadership and Discipline. One of the finest lectures on the subject of Leadership delivered by Sam Manekshaw in November 1998, when he was 84 years old, can serve as a lesson to anyone who aspires to become a successful leader in his or her walk of life. Sam’s definition of the key attributes of a successful leader can be summarised below: attribute 1 – Professional Knowledge and Professional CompetenceThis is the first, the primary and the cardinal attribute of leadership. As Sam describes it, professional knowledge and competence are a ‘sine qua non’of leadership. Unless you know what you are talking about, and unless you understand your profession, you can never be a leader. Professional knowledge and professional competence have to be acquired by hard work and constant study.Attribute 2 – The ability to make up your mind to make a decision and accept full responsibility for that decision. If you take ten decisions, by the law of averages five ought to be right. If you have professional knowledge and competence, nine will be right. And the one that is not will be put right by a subordinate officer or a colleague. But if you do not take a decision you are doing something wrong. An act f omission is much worse that an act of commission. An act of commission can be put right, an act of omission cannot. Make a decision, and having made it, accept full responsibility for it.Attribute 3 – Absolute honesty, fairness and justiceAfter all, leader deal with people. A leader should be perceived by his team, to be fair in his dealings with one and all. Only then is he or she accepted as a leader.Attribute 4 – Physical and Moral courageWhile physical courage probably applies more to the armed forces, moral courage is universally applicable. Moral courage is the ability to distinguish right from wrong, and having done so, to say so when asked, irrespective of what your superiors might think, or what your colleagues or your subordinates might want.A ‘yes’ man is a dangerous man. He may rise high, but her will never make a leader, because he will be used by his superiors, disliked by his colleagues and despised by his subordinates.Attribute 5 – LoyaltyWe all expect loyalty. Do we give loyalty – to our subordinates, to our colleagues? Loyalty is a three way thing. You expect loyalty, therefore you must give loyalty to your colleagues and to your subordinates. Loyalty also means dealing immediately and firmly with team members who cause trouble. Do not allow any nonsense. But understand their problems. When they get despondent, motivate them and shake them out of their despondence.Attribute 6 – ManlinessMen and women like their leader to be a man with all manly qualities and virtues. By manliness Manekshaw suggests a certain measure of flamboyance, a certain style and a vibrant personality.
Tashfin—All Pakistani coins and currency and government symbols use ottoman symbology. Many rulers pledged allegiance to the Ottomans. Turkey is the successor state to the Ottomans and Pakistan of the Mughals.
The War of independence was not only bengali–the Mughal Emperor in Delhi and all of Norther part of South Asia was involved. Please read the history of the war of independence. It started in Meerut which is in Awadh–not part of UP.
But it was all over–not just Bengal
Muslim leaders like Maulana Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi including the millenarian Ahmedullah Shah, taken up by the Muslims, particularly Muslim artisans, which caused the British to think that the Muslims were the main force behind this event.
In Thana Bhawan, the Sunnis declared Haji Imdadullah their Ameer. In May 1857 the Battle of Shamli took place between the forces of Haji Imdadullah and the British.
Some regiments in frontier garrisons subsequently rebelled, but became isolated among hostile Pakhtun villages and tribes. There were several mass executions, amounting to several hundred, of sepoys from units which rebelled or who deserted in the Punjab and North West Frontier provinces during June and July
At one stage, faced with the need to send troops to reinforce the besiegers of Delhi, the Commissioner of the Punjab suggested handing the coveted prize of Peshawar to Dost Mohammed Khan of Afghanistan in return for a pledge of friendship. The British Agents in Peshawar and the adjacent districts were horrified. Referring to the massacre of a retreating British army in 1840, Herbert Edwardes wrote, “Dost Mahomed would not be a mortal Afghan … if he did not assume our day to be gone in India and follow after us as an enemy. Europeans cannot retreat – Kabul would come again.”[92] In the event Lord Canning insisted on Peshawar being held, and Dost Mohammed, whose relations with Britain had been equivocal for over 20 years, remained neutral.
Jhelum in Punjab was also a centre of resistance against the British. Here 35 British soldiers of HM XXIV regiment (South Wales Borderers), died on 7 July 1857. To commemorate this victory St. John’s Church Jhelum was built and the names of those 35 British soldiers are carved on a marble lectern present in that church
The final large-scale military uprising in the Punjab took place on July 9, when most of a brigade of sepoys at Sialkot rebelled and began to move to Delhi. They were intercepted by John Nicholson with an equal British force as they tried to cross the Ravi River. After fighting steadily but unsuccessfully for several hours, the sepoys tried to fall back across the river but became trapped on an island. Three days later, Nicholson annihilated the 1100 trapped sepoys in the Battle of Trimmu Gha
Here is something about Murre and the revolt there in 1957: Addleton, Jonathan S. (2002). Some Far and Distant Place. University of Georgia Press. ISBN 9780820324586.
The 1857 War of Independence in Murree, part of the Indian Rebellion of 1857, was a rebel skirmish between the tribes surrounding the hill station of Murree (modern day Pakistan) and the colonial government of British India. Resentment against colonial rule had been mounting for many years and there had been occasional isolated uprisings against British rule at various times since the British had established themselves in the subcontinent. What made 1857 different was that, although not centrally coordinated, the uprisings had the feel of something much larger with real anticipation that colonial rule would be overthrown. In the Murree hills it was the Dhund Abbasi and Tanoli tribes who rose up against the British
Sir…after hyperventilating against Wikipedia you are caught quoting from Wikipedia verbatim on the Muree rebellion????
This was surely not expected of Mr Ansari who would not allow lines from Wiki if they say something about India!!
Et tu Brute??
Wiki copied the article from another site. I took it from the other site.
Fact remains that apart from Muree the resistance in Pakistan in 1857 came from Poorbia soldiers, mostly high caste hindus of 55th Regiment and 26th Native Infantry.
Also, in a related point on cultural succession, we all know how unhappy Jinnah was when gandhi dragged the Khilafat issue into India’s indepence struggle. To Jinnah the issue of Ottoman empire had no relevance to the struggle at hand.
This guy has no clue about history. The mutiny took place in Bengal Regiment stationed near Calcutta that makes it today’s west bengal. The Bengal Regiments were basically manned by High Caste Hindy soldiers from Oudh. The first guy to gave thre call for mutiny and was hung for it was such a hindu – Mangal Pandey.
The Mutiny then spread across Oudh, Meerut, Delhi, Lucknow, Kanpur, Bihar, Jhansi…with both hindu and muslim sepoys of upper and central india fighting side by side. It was almost total in central India with gwalior also falling to rebels. Unforunately the South India, the Sikhs and the caste hindus of Calcutta did not stanmd by the rebels.
To say that India has nothing to do with 1857 is to show a vacant intellect of abnormally large proportion!!! the courage behind such exhibitionism is awsome.
Though poor Aurangzeb could never return to Delhi for the last 27 years of his reign….living in imperial trains…subduing one rebellion after another around the empire..and dying a broken hearted man in Deccan. Akbar on the other hand has few rebellions to quell and is regarded as the zenith of the mughal empire..aurangzeb as the last of the great mughals and a big cause of its decline.
Already discussed this–no point in repetition
Your depiction of Alamgir seems like a Bollywood scene–one can expect the music and pelvic thrusting right after you mentioned “broken heart”.
Akbar also had to run after the Rajputs, and then marry their daughters. Aurenzeb of course was simple and earned his living by selling caps. Of course some of his most important generals were Hindus–including those who chased Deccan.
Quid e Azam said it best–your heroes are our villains, and our villains are your heroes.
Mangal Panday is a recent concoction–real history doesn’t give any credence to him–(Bollywood not withstanding which showed him fighting a million Englishmen.
No one said that “India” had nothing to do with the events of 1857.
Unrelated point–Jinnah repeatedly told Gandhi not to bring religious symbols into politics. Gandhi persisted–the results are for everyone to see. Jinnah was absolutely right. Already written tons on this. Read Jaswant Singh’s book
This is too good. Mangal Pandey is recent concoction also???? and who concocted it and why??? What about the court martial papers? What about Malleson and Montgomery’s histories?? And Malleson did not like like the hindus and the congress one little bit…in the last chapter of his history of mutiny he speaks out his mind!!
Minor figure–not pertinent–Bharat needed a hero–so Mangal Panday was brought to the forefront
and the other comment got wrongly placed….meant it for your great right-hand and acolyte..tashfin.
Trust you enough not to make such weird observations.
Hmm….well he was one of the guys who first got carried away. Of couse not one of the leaders. We have other hindus too..Nana Sahib, Tantya Tope, Kunwar Singh, Laxmi Bai…..but why split the great struggle in half?? At least it was a glorious chapter in our shared history.
And there was no directed communal violence in the sanguinary chapter…though in Punjab..british used Sikh soldiers to kill muslims and deserters who were bihari poorbias.
Hmm….maybe RAW is throwing money. But what does it speak of muslim teaching and feeling of brotherhod that makes the TTP chaps take up arms..and sipah-e-sabah who throws grenades on shias?? Or are these all RAW hindus infiltrating and doing..masquerading as muslims???
And you have not given the name of the book/article where manekshaw wrote he recruited 80000 hindus to create the mukti bahini. No wonder Bangladesh is not very happy with Pakistan either!!!!
Who said Quran has caste system?? Who also said hinduism teaches upper castes to torture lower caste? Does Bible anywhere teach inquisition?
The question was on practicing the religion or dogma? Of course we have a caste problem…and we are trying to overcome it through reservations, incentives, criminal laws. Do you think a Dalit IAS officers family is ostracised in anyway? Education and economic power are the two best weapons to fight discrimination.
What i wanted to mention is that if you think just by converting to islam the caste problem is going to go then you are mistaken. Caste in gangetic India is like a tribal identity…..religion helps..but the identity remains…an orakzai will not become differet if he converts…that he can be killed is a different matter!!!
So lets not proseletyze…..let Dr Kancha Illiah try his best from his university in hyderabad. Good that he is in a university…at least his english will improve!!
PIL is public interest litigation…which in pakistan is done suo moto by a chief justice who thinks himself to be the light of wisdom……OBC is other backward castes…these are over and above the traditional dalit and tribal castes identified in the constitution.
India is so incredibly corrupt & criminalised . Those who crowed with hubris as the first ” discoverers of water in Moon ” are still feigning ignorance about the whereabouts of lecherous murderer nithyananda.
And who have been assiduously protecting him but the bjp hindutvavadis & RSS ? Ditto with SSRavishankar of art of living cult who was thrust on the gullible idiotised masses as an (sic) ” avatar “.
Indian media projected Narendra Modi as absolutely above board blahblah. What do we see & hear ? He felicitates the dubious nithyananda as follower of (sic) Sri. Aadi Shankara ‘s traditions …..
It is the overzealous fanatical uninformed hindus amongst us that have been wreaking havoc.
Spare me history please. I am so exhausted emotionally. It is the present we are in.
Even a single statement pointing out our faults I am simply unable to write in our news portals . At once I am called ” a converted christian / muslim sympathizer / leftist / not a practising hindu…..
The plethora of dubious godmen of india in cahoots with virtually all politicians , lawyers etc enforcing celibacy , good ethical conduct on the followers but
plundering , raping , sodomising , money laundering , it would be downright ludicrous to anticipate victory & glory for India .
One thing is for sure… the blogger is doing well with the anti India campaign…but my dear garazte badal kab barse hain.. aur hum batein kam karte hain… Comments off karke to koi bhi bol sakta hai.. jahan humare paas in sab baton ke liye time nahiin hai aur hum develped countries me gine jate hain..wahan border ke us paar likhne ke siwa kuch aur kaam bi to nahiin hai… long live pakistan (like this only)
Mr. Ansari: Thanks for illuminating my knowledge, Perhaps i didn’t made my self clear. Bengal had his own army with its own commander-in-chief. In 1857 there were 257000 soldiers in it. What i was trying to explain is that Xi Native Cavalry of the Bengal Army in Meerut, UP mutinied which as you was largely bengali. They released every prisonor from jail and attacked the army cantonment and killed all british and any Indian(pak today) Christians they could find including all women and children from master to the servant. Then they burned the houses and marched towards Delhi. They used the same tactics against Pak army in 1971 and thousands of innocent Paks were slaughtered. When they reached delhi they gathered all indians/Pak to fight and killed more british soldiers. Soon it spread everywhere. Not every hindu was fighting for comeback of Mughal. Most hindus were fighting to restore maratha emperors which were being humiliated by british for high tax and not given their title and pension to them. Revolt spread everywhere in Pak subcontinent and most ethnicities were involved but it was started by bengalis that is what i am trying to say.
this i have read in school but again i am not a hindu bigot if you think i am wrong i accept it.
Dirtroad: A nameless bharti who dont even know his own history telling me about history. mutiny started in meerut not calcutta and meerut is in Uttar pardesh. Here comes temple indoctrination. I dont have to waste my time argue with you. This is realy funny ”The Bengal Regiments were basically manned by High Caste Hindy soldiers from Oudh. The first guy to gave thre call for mutiny and was hung for it was such a hindu – Mangal Pandey.” So superman pandey was the who started rebellion, Wow
Zain: One anomaly in your Bengali theory. South Asia at that time was divided into three parts. One was called “Bengal”. We do not agree with your depiction of Bengalis in a negative manner. There was a fitna in 1971–that has to be forgotten, and the world has to move on. Kindly use your tremendous knowledge to build bridges of harmony on bangladeshpatriot.com
baatil seh dubneh walay aasman nahin hum–sao baar kurr chuka hai imtihan hamara! Alama Iqbal
The Spanish Inquisition was approved by the Pope and by Torquamada–it was legal and binding. Jews and Muslims were killed, converted or expelled under Spanish law.
The Hindu Caste System is part of the Hindu landscape, and has the protection of Indian Law. Gandhi refused to ban the Caste System.
In the name of humanity–why can’t you guys understand the pain and suffering of 450 million Dalits, Untouchables, and Unscheduled people. The response is not shia/sunni/ahmedi. The response is Bharat has to fix this human anomaly. Free people around the world protested against Apartheid. Today the suffering of the Dailts is the horrid problem in South Asia. Unfortunately for the Dalits, J-Street is not behind them. Educated Bharatis try to push it under the rug and try to rationalize it.
PIl, OBC whatever cannot undue the temple indoctrination. Talk to any Bharati on any subject–and within a few minutes he/she spouts religious scripture as if it was history. Bharat is Hindusism. Bharati history is Hindu history–and the scriptures are the main source of Bharati history.
Dr Kancha Illiah is a real Bharati hero–like Dr. Ambadekar–he will be eulogized posthomosly. It is my distinct honor to be one of his fans and have personal contacts with him.
Bharat can never be a regional player unless it fixes its internal cavities. Bharat can never be a world player unless it makes peace with ALL its neighbors.
Imagine a South Asia–where all neighbors of Bharat support it everywhere. To do this, Bharat has to resolve Kashmir, Tibet, Chittagong Hill Tracks, LTTE, Sikkim, Bhutan and Napali issues. Bharat does not have the ability to solve a single border dispute–most countries of the world have done that decades ago.
Bharat has no business in Afghanistan–Shahi or no Shahi–it should concentrate on eliminating Ghrababad in Mumbai instead of spending $3 billion on a rust bucket from Russia. That viagra will not make Bharat potent–liberating the Dalits will.
Unfortunately the Hindus think that by liberating Dlaits, Hinduism itself will be destroyed. So be it. Let Brahaminism be destroyed–so that Hinduism can survive.
It is better to have a morally correct religion, than to suppers millions.
I already did send you the Manekshaw information. Manekshaw is not the only source of this. Young kids in Bharat are only taught one version of history. The initial history of Bangladesh was written by Bharatis–it has since been refuted. Please read “The India Doctrine” by one of the foremost Bangladeshi intellectuals today–Barrister Munshi. He says the same thing. Please also read “Tragedy of Errors” by General Kamal Matin. Hamid Gul has written reams about it. Declassified documents of the US Embassy in Islamabad, Delhi and the consulate in Dhaka present the same facts. There are actual tapes of Kissinger and Nixon discussing it.
This goes against your temple indoctrination built on “defeating Pakistan”–but that victory was ephemeral–today Bangladesh is more friendly with Pakistan than Bharat. West bengal will fall into Bangladesh like a ripe cherry.
http://rupeenews.com/2009/12/15/16th-december-sowed-the-seeds-of-greater-brihot-bangaldesh/
1971 also forced Pakistan into a “never again” mode–and it became a Nuclear power preventing direct Bharati actions impossible–therefore Bharat uses the Mukti Bahni, LTTE tactics using the TTP. No entity in the world can buy truckoads of military issue dynamite–the TTP and the BLA has Indian support–acknowledged by Manmohan Singh (for which he was raked over the coals in the Lok Sabah)
Additionally the revival of the Two Nation Theory by President Zia in Bangladesh refuted the Mujibism and threw out secularism. You may also research the fact that Khondakar Mushtaque Ahmed on August 14th, 1975 declared a confederation with Pakistan. That announcement was short lived and Mushtaque was removed in a counter-coup within hours. (Source Stanley Wolpert in his book–Zulfi Bhutto).
Bharat and Bangladesh have a huge problem in the Chittagong Hill tracks. This month is the anniversary of the Indian massacre of the Bangladesh Border Security Force–West Bengal, Orrissa, Bihar, and the Chicken neck are other unresolved issues.
There are more than 4 million Bangladeshis working in Karachi–there is no problem with Bangladesh. The relations are good. Just watch an India Pakistan match in Dhaka–and see who the BEngalis root for!!! We posted the pictures on this site. the stadium was full of Pakistani flags.
It is a joint history–that should be celebrated on a supranational basis. I agreed with the Bhrati proposal to commemorate it in Bharat, Paksitan, Bangaldesh.
However Bharat should stop manufacturing heroes about which no one has heard of for the past hundred years.
Hello All,
I guess what is more important to most of us is the quality of life we are leading. These hate will not give us food, education or standard of living. West will always like us to have bitter relationship so that we keep investing on Arms rather than on hospitals or Education. Does all these matter to normal people like us.
To me what matters is the quality of life I am leading, what I can create for my next generation and how we can contribute to the society. For 100 years the power was with West and esp Europe. Its high time that the giants of Asia namely China, India, Pakistan, Japan & Korea join hands and come together and I am sure Asia will be the continent to be in 21st Century.
For that to happen its important that we invest in right areas and forget pointing guns against each other.
There are some issues and there are some great work done in every front as well. As an Indian I am really happy with my country and I guess many of you on the other side share the same feelings.
May peace prevail on both the sides and many successful people emerge.
Thanks