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SHOULD A SECULAR SOCIETY HONOR A CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE WHO IS NOW AN ICON OF COMMUNALISM AND ISLAMPHOBIA IN BHARAT?
There are fault lines between the Hindu Muslim ecumenical harmony. No where are the fault lines sharper than in the discussion of the protagonists in Battle of Pratapgarh fought on November 30, 1659. The battle was fought between the Adil Shah’s forces (an ally of the Mughals) and the renegades who were against the state. To say the very least the controversial Shivaji is not considered a person of any high reputation by contemporary historians. Secular Indian consider it just a battle between two armies, however the Hinduvata consider is a battle between Muslims and Hindus.
The statue of Shivaji stands in Mumbai. This is ironic–because Bombay was built by the British after the Port of Surat had silted over. Surats merchants disliked having to bribe and pacify the warrior Shivaji, who looted Surat seven times beginning in 1664. These merchants were moved to Bombay by the British.
It is pedagogical to note that both armies had Hindus and Muslims.
Afzal Khan’s army had many Hindus, and the several able generals of Shivaji were Muslims (Siddi Halal, Siddi Wahwah,Nur Khan Baig, Qazi Haider, Shama Khan etc). This was not a battle between Hindus and Muslims, it is was battle for the integrity of the state–the same battle that raged between Delhi and the South (during the reign of Aurenzeb)–the same battle that rages between Delhi and the Naxals and Tamils today.
By eulogizing the local insurgent as a hero, the Hindu Mahasabah is in fact encouraging the Naxals to claim that Delhi’s rule is illegal and that it is OK to rebel against the central authority. If Shivijai’s struggle was against invaders, so the Dalit struggle against the Aryan armies of Arjun was also legitimate.
In a secular society the country the rights of the secularists, the minorities and Muslims are being trampled. Building a statue for a controversial figure who now represents opposition to all Muslims will surely exacerbate Hindu-Muslim relations not only in Bharat but on her bloody borders.
Let us look into the seeds of time and see what makes Shivaji such a controversial figure.
New versions of revisionist history are being propagated , but credible historians agree on these facts which are not in dispute.
- Facing a huge Army Shivaji sent a letter saying he was not eager to face Afzal Khan in battle, and he wanted a negotiated settlement.
- Facing imminent defeat by the overwhelming force Shivaji decided to meet Afzal Khan under the guise of diplomatic negotiations.
- Afzal Khan, after leaving Bijapur wanted agreed to meet Shivaji in an open ground without arms and under normal diplomatic norms of peace and honesty.
- Face to face diplomacy was considered a matter of integrity for the Mughals.
- A meeting was arranged between Afzal Khan and Shivaji at the foothills of Fort Pratapgad.
- A wanted criminal, Shivaji was was not greeted with a rainfall of arrows and was not attacked by 25 Adil Shah’s soldiers. He was accorded safe passage.
- Afzal Khan had a large physical stature leading a battle hardened veteran army. He considered this assignment as a small matter of stamping out a pesky regional chieftain who was physically weak and in to position to fight the mighty Adil Shahi Army.
- Shivaji prepared carefully and diligently for this encounter; he secretly armed himself with sharp metal razor weapon called wagh nakh (tiger claw), and chilkhat (armour) prior to the meeting.
- Afzal Khan embraced him before the commencement of supposed negotiations
- During the embrace Shivaji surreptitiously attacked AfzalKhan with the “wagh nakh” and “bich’hwa“, spilling his blood and entrails on the ground.
One of our esteemed Rupee News readers correctly points out the following:
His fight was not for hindu kingdom as painted by hindu fanatics. His most trusted general in all his campaigns was Haider Ali Kohari; Darya Sarang was chief of armory; Ibrahim Khan and Daulat Khan were prominent in the navy; and Siddi Ibrahim was chief of artillery.
One third of his supporter were MUSLIMS & he had pathans support as well after pashtun rebellion against mughal empire due to failed ECONOMIC policy.
Top officials with him include: 1) Siddi Halal, 2) Siddi Wahwah, 3) Nur Khan Baig, 4) Qazi Haider, 5) Shama Khan
The Mughal forces under Shaista Khan (January 1660) who took revenge of the murder of their ally Adil Shah were of course a huge conglomeration of Sikh, Marhatta, Rajput, Hindu, Muslim, and other forces. In fact one of Aurenzeb’s disowned sons who did not succeed in overthrowing the king was part of the Shivaji army.
Aurenzeb had an ecumenical household. He had at least two Hindu wives Nawab Bai, daughter of Kashmir’s Raja Raju, and Udaipuri Mahal.
Percentage of Hindu Nobles Under Shahjahan & Aurangzeb
| MansabdarNobles | Shahjahan(1628-58) | Aurangzeb(1658-78) | Aurangzeb(1679-1701) |
| 5000 and above | 24.5% | 19.6% | 32.9% |
| 3000-4500 | 25.0% | 20.0% | 27.1% |
| 1000-2700 | 21.3% | 22.3% | 33.1% |
| Total | 22.4% | 21.6% | 31.6% |
(Source: Athar Ali: Mughal Nobility Under Aurangzeb)–Cited in Chandra, Medieval India, 285.
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The Hinduvata define the incident as such: “Afzal Khan, the general from Bijapur who tried to murder Shivaji. But Shivaji’s wits ensured otherwise; and it was Afzal Khan who was slain by Shivaji Maharaj.”
Because of the RSS activity in the 1940s and as a result of the Hinduvata the lines between the Muslim heroes and the Hindu Heroes were defined not today but hundreds of years ago in the Subcontinent. Quaid e Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah defined it eloquently in the Two Nation Theory (originally defined by Lai and other RSS Hindus) in 40s. He says “your heroes are our enemies, and our enemies are your heroes“. Shivaji is reviled in the civilized world of the time, not because of his religious affiliations but because of his guerrilla tactics of asymmetric warfare which in the middle ages was considered unmanly. As our Indian readers have pointed out the Mughal forces included many Hindus and the forces of Shivaji included many Muslims.
While Shanghai is building skyscrapers, and creating a modern city the envy of the world, Mumbai is busy in creating rift among the Muslims and Hindus. Mumbai is to sport another new symbol of Islamphobia and bigotry–the statue of Shivaji, a guerrilla fighter from the South that harassed Mughal forces by hit and run attacks. Could Muslims return the favor this time?
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Secular India: Anti Muslim Shivaji statue to guard Bombay shores
Map of India showing the highest concentration of Brahmins and Hindu extremists known as Hinduvta who worship Shiviji as an icon of Islamphobic bigotry to promote communal violence in Bharat.
Mumbai to build statue taller than Lady Liberty MUMBAI: Mumbai plans to erect a statue of a Hindu warrior king off the city’s shore in the Arabian Sea that will be taller than the Statue of Liberty, government officials said on Tuesday. India’s financial capital has consciously modelled its development on that of Shanghai, but its leaders admit to sometimes coveting aspects of Western metropolises too. “It is true that the Statue of Liberty was perhaps an inspiration a little bit,” said Thanksy Thekkekara, the principal secretary of the government of Maharashtra, of which Mumbai is the capital. While almost equally massive, the two statues may prove different in their symbolism. Mumbai’s statue will depict Shivaji Bhosle, also known as Chhatrapati Shivaji, revered by many in western India as a warrior who fought the Mughal empire and annexed land from its Muslim rulers in the 17th century. The planned statue is about 309 feet (94m) tall, including its pedestal, Thekkekara said. The Statue of Liberty measures 305 feet (93m) from the ground to the tip of her torch.
We simply state that Shivaji was resisting the government in Hindustan with violent means. His rebellion waged against the Central Authority would be labeled as Terrorism.If he is not a terrorist, then there are no terrorists in Bharat–all of them are resisting the rule of law with bloody and illegal means.
The fact is that Shivaji was a terrorist. He killed a peace emissary with a dagger hidden in his hand–an abominable act of murder of the ambassador. Shivaji should have been unarmed like the Ambassador.
Dr. Khan adds:
Great review on “secular mughal and secular shiva ji.
Drafting siva as icon of hindu nationalism,was indeed needed as there was nothing to rally around;This was another british success story.
But unfortunately modern hindus are radicalized by british created history with an agenda to creat mutual hatred; they succeeded.
I am happy to note that you have very clearly showed that hindu muslim soldiers had served both sides; this even began when Prithvi raj joined hands with Ghaznavids to repell Ghouri ( 12th cent).Hindus in fact suffer a great ” inferiority complex “and cannot swallow 1000 yrs muslim domination; writings of Dayanand and viveka nand etc reflects this vividly; Easiest thing for them is to caste out Muslims as foreigners and discover Siva ji, prithivi raj fictions.They get their high from the fabricated history.
WHO knows that Mehmood Ghaznzvi’s generals were hindus too,one was TILAK as elaborated by Nehru and included in my book as well.
Only one thing i will add to your main article; This is a collaboration between SHIA south,sivaji group shia iran and some brtish of surat plus a Rebellous son of
Aurangzeb, Akbar. The alliance finally lost to central govt; Akbar took refuge in Iran and fate of others is well known.Secular Auranzeb, destroyed masids and mandirs both part of army action.Auranzeb had created the largest ever India;Assam,tibet,etc were annexed by him.
Some pple single him out for killing his brothers.There are many such episodes in pre islamic history of india and also all over in all religion; This is lust of power, human issue.
Siva ji is the only icon of Shiv sena.he is the only hero they can feel proud.Thus they have their statue;nothing good/bad abt it.
Interestingly many commentators still are hung up on 8th grade british created history—Muslims as foreigners even after 1000 yrs. They need to look at historical origin of indians from africa and Babylon and evolution of Hindu culture system from MIDEAST including skt from ancient arabic ( akkadian);Dr Malati shingde ( a marhatta) elabotates on this besides my own book;” urdu/hindi an artificial dicvide, african heritage”.
For history of Siva ji and aurangzeb, best source is Jadav nath sarkar’s Aurangzeb in 5 vols. Indians and Pakistanis need to read some authentic history to get out of box;Your article is one good example that absolves you from India bashing.
Dude i like your articles & i know india is not secular at all but Shivaji was secular unlike brahmin thackerey’s shivsena or hindu BJP,Congress,RSS etc.
His fight was not for hindu kingdom as painted by hindu fanatics.
His most trusted general in all his campaigns was Haider Ali Kohari; Darya Sarang was chief of armory; Ibrahim Khan and Daulat Khan were prominent in the navy; and Siddi Ibrahim was chief of artillery.
One third of his supporter were MUSLIMS & he had pathans support as well after pashtun rebellion against mughal empire due to failed ECONOMIC policy.
Top officials with him include
1)Siddi halal
2)Siddi wahwah
3)Nurkhan baig
4)Qazi haider
5)Shamakhan
list goes on….
If you know reverse psychology then in your zeal to counter indian fascism you might turn whatever secular hindus are remaining in to typical hindu fanatics as well.
Great one your right,
Thank you for your feedback,valuable insight and documentation. It is a pleasure to get good facts. We have already modified the narrative to reflect your information (pls provide sources and citations and full name–if you want to be credited by name).
Shivajee opposed the Mughal Empire on religious and political grounds. He is a hero in “secular” India for his “guerilla warfare” against the Muslim king. For most neutral historians, Shivjee was a simple terrorist. There are some Muslims in the BJP also. Tokenism means nothing.The religion of some fringe elements of Aurenzeb’s mighty empire who joined the terror gangs is not material.
The fact remains that Shivji the darling of the Hinduvata should not be honored in a secular state. Of course India is another matter.
The world is very aware of “secular” Indians, like Nehru and Indira, and religious one like Mohandas. At least with the BJP and Advani the world knows what it is getting. With the others its Shivaji’s motto “baghal main churi, moon peh Ram Ram”. This is how Shivaji stabbed the Mughal emperor’s emissary..during an embrace, in the back!
Did Prophet Muhammad not say “War is deceit?”
So Shivaji was actually following Prophet Muhammad’s “sunnah”.
How can you, as a Muslim, criticise that ?
Never heard of this saying–please provide proof.
Shivaji was a terrorist. He achieved nothing except pave the way for the colonization by the British.
BTW: Shivaji had Muslim generals and soldiers in his army the Aurenzeb had Hindu soldiers and generals in his army. It was not a Hindu-Muslim fight, it was about land, and resources. Both wanted it–Shivaji lost and didn’t get it. The Mughals prevailed.
Since Hindus had no heroes, a terrorists image was embellished
when some body [profanity deleted} the happiness of muslims . they call all names . very easy for muslim cry babies. its afzal khan who had dagger and shivaji had wagh nakha . he out smarted muslim hooligan by disemboweling ho ho ho. so get your records straight. moin you are a pig notghing else. your wish list to uncle sam shows how you pakis[tani] are living in [abuse deleted] called [abuse deleted] where americans [abuse deleted] and you eat it hot..
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Even Muslim historian Khafi Khan has praised Shivaji for his tolerance of other religions and his chivalry.
Aurangzeb destroyed Hindu temples and imposed Jizya taxes on Hindus – Islam requires these actions.
Your heroes are our villains and visa vi because we are 2 different people, ethnicities, cultures and geographies.
I love Aurangzaib and stand by all his accomplishes – he was a humble and great emperor. It was his forefather Akhbar who had made Hindu temples across India the greatest number of Hindu temple constructions in the history of the sub-continent. Even after all this love and tolerance bestowed on your treacherous kind – you continued to conspire, demonise us.
So Aurangzaib is the reaction of decades of Hindu treachery and conspiring.
Political Islam is against all non-Muslims.
Why should non-Muslims like Shivaji not be against
Political Islam?
There is some evidence of what you say. We have updated the article with that evidence.
However the Hinduvata and you are using Shivaji as a symbol to malign all Muslims and the Mughals–this makes Shivaji a convtraversial figure in todaus Islamaphic environment in Bharat.
The statue will typify communalism and detracts from the “Indian secdularism” which some support.
Your comments here and elsewhere expose the unerbelly of communal thought in Bharat and simply proves our point.
AURENZEB: Muslim pay 2.5% as “zakat”. Becuase non-Muslims were not required to pay “zakat” they paid “jizya”. All other propoganda against Aurenzeb is just that…a way to malign all Muslims.
The poulation of Hindus under the Mughal grew and did not shirnk. Compare to 15th centure Spain when all Muslims were kiled or converted. The Mughals did not do that to the Hindus. Many Hindus were part and parcel of the Mughal Army and also in the Royal household Dara Shikoh had a Hindu mother.
Thank you for your feedback
Not sure what the Neocon term “Political islam” means. It is just a bogey to malign people. “Political Hinduism“, “Political Judiasm“, “Political Buddhism” and “Political Sikhism” if discussed in the same vein will produce similar results.
Shivaji was not against “Poloitical islam” as much as Aurenzed was for it.
It was a squabble between a two-bit raja in the South and the Mighty Mughal Empire.
Shivaji participated in guerilla tactics…akin to those terrorists to today–asymetrical warfware produced no major results for him and his tactics were not sustainable for any period of time.
Shivji as a symbol of Hinduvata irks all…see comments by a secular Hindu above
There are other errors in the article. Afzal Khan was not a general of Aurangzeb or the Mughals. He was a general of one of the Sultanates of the South.
While you may delight in calling Shivaji a “two-bit Raja”,
the fact is that the movement he started eventually brought down Aurangzeb who delighted in destroying Hindu temples. Can you object to Hindus considering Shivaji a hero?
I have yet to see a Muslim condemn the desecration of Hindu temples by Aurangzeb or other Muslims, of which there are countless examples. Can a good Muslim condemn the destruction of the temples of “idolaters” (Hindus) and still be considered a good Muslim?
Hindus do not study the Manu Smriti ,which prescribes the caste system as a holy book any more. Is it not time for Muslims to replace the Koran by Rumi’s Mathnawi? Unlike the Koran, the Mathnawi does not preach Jihad against non-Muslims.
Hindus have rejected the caste system. Is it not time for Muslims to reject Jihad against Kaffirs and reject the unjust Sharia Law which oppresses both women and non-Muslims?
Why do Muslims object to the glorification of Shivaji when according to Muslim historians themselves, Shivaji respected the Religion of Islam and was chivalrous towards Muslim women? Was it wrong for him to oppose Aurangzeb who wanted to destroy Hindu temples?
About the Afzal Khan incident. Did you know that on an earlier occasion, Afzal Khan had killed Kasturi Ranga, a Hindu whom he had invited for “talks”? Afzal Khan’s penchant for killing his adversaries he had invited for talks was well known. Afzal Khan had also killed Shivaji’s brother Shambhuji. Later, Aurangzeb tortured Shivaji’s son Shambhji to death. Shambhuji, Shivaji’s son,, who was named after his uncle Shambhuji who had been killed by Afzal Khan.
Thank you for hearing me out.
Muslims are never secular when they are in a majority.
They only demans secularism when they are in a minority.
Non-Muslims are treated like trash in Muslim majority countries like Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
It seems like Muslims want to eat their cake and have it too.
Have you lived in Saudia Arabia –
Our Arab brethren are very tolerant and respectful.
Iran is equally tolerant and protects all minorities as does Pakistan – more so than the charade of secularism and democracy known as India.
Shivaji never targeted Muslim CIVILIANS. His guerilla tactics were used against THE ARMIES of Aurangzeb.
Terrorists like Bin Laden target CIVILIANS.
Your comparison is not valid.
By that definition, Shivaji was not a terrorist.
The heroics of shivaji is as fictitious as mickey mouse. he was a dacoit, a merc, a terrorist.
he was also a coward invitin Afzal Khan to discuss peace and stabbing him in the back as he embraced him in typical backstabbing cowardly Hindu style.
Had it not been for this single act of treachery and deceit as we see it and rightly so contrary to the Hindu account then the outcome would have been different.
Shivaji was hardly a hero but one can see the Hindu perspective clutching on straws to provide their adherents with positive role models.
What are your views on the pampering of Muslims through Haj subsidies by the Govt. of India, even during the rule of the hated BJP party?
By your definion who ever targets civilians is a terrorist?
Correct? Kindly answer yes or no?
The religion of “secularisim” means nothing. Stalin killed millions as did Hitler and Dalits, Women (50 miliion white widows, 10 million baby girls killed before and after birth), Naxalites, Indian Muslims in Indian “secularism” are treated like trash.
Thousands of Indians Hindus line up around the Saudi Embassy dyeing to get visa to get to Saudi Arabia..some trash…
The Hindu Chief Justice of Pakistan Das doesn’t think that he is trash.
Sikh yatrees in Pakistan are subsidised
Thank you for your feedback.
Your description of Khan is incorrect. He was absolutely allied with the Mughals and represented them in the South. Many Hindus were also allied with the Mughals and in fact Shivahi also fought with Hindus also. In fact many Hindu kingdosm copied the Mughal patwari system and imposed reverse jizya and “zakat” (not called zakat0 on the Hindu subjects.
Not sure why the discussion of Shivaji has turned into a discusion of Islam.
Aurenzeb was the Emperor of a large part of the Subcontinent. It is like defining Prime Minister Mr. Singh as a Sikh government. Mr. Sings today represents the power of New Delhi. Like all Mughal Emperors, Aurenzeb had people of all faiths in his court. His son Dara Shikoh was from a Hindu wife and may have been Hindu. Disparaging Aurenzeb and making him into a caricature— hurts the feelings of a large section of the population. Describing Shivaji as a Hindu leader automatically puts him on a collision course with many Indians. Describing Aurenzeb as a Muslim Emperor is inaccurate, incorrect and one the main reasons of the Two Nation Theory and separation between Muslims and Hindus.
Masnavi is based on the Quran. There is no contradiction. Your understanding of the Quran makes some basic assumptions that are incorrect and based on communalism. In fact many Muslim emperors had declared Hindus as “people of the book” (Source Karen Armstonrg:-History of God) and accorded all the rights and privilages given to Jews and Christians.
No Muslim government has come near the atrocities of Stalin, Mao, Cambodian killing fieds, Hootoo Tootsis, WW1 (15 million killed), WW2 (50 million killed) , the Spanish Inquisition etc etc. Accrding to the Mahabaharta the inter-aryan wars killed 330 million people (I didn’t make up the numbers..I just report them). The Aryan-Dravidian wars (Kora pandas) killed millions also.
Kindly read the “meesaq e madina” posted under the tab “Islam”.
Desecration of temples in Medival times is a complex issue and cannot be answered in a sound bite. In summary the temple was the center of finance, politics, social activity and many times the temple was also the treasury. Hindu temples were not just places of workship, they represented the physical and financial power of the state. Jesus also spoke up about the activities of in the Jewish temples. Hindus armies when they marched against each other also raided temples. Christian armies when they occupied Hindu states also attacked the treasury “Fort Knox” which kept real estate records, women, gols, silver etc. Using medival times to describe Islam works well to burn Muslims in Gujrat, harass them in Kashmir and destroy the Babri Masjid, but it has nothing to do with reality.
There are many supporters of Hilter in the BJP. Mr. Modi is one of them. Why don’t you put up a statue of Mr. Hilter in Mumbai also!
Dude! You are wrong again.Dara Shikoh was Aurangzeb’s brother and not his son. Dara was murdered ,like Shuja and Murad,on Aurangzeb’s command.
Kafirs cannot practice their religion in Saudi Arabia.Kafirs are not allowed to go to college in Iran.
Is that “good” treatment of kafirs?
Population of Kafirs in Pakistan is almost 0 today., but the population of Muslims in India has increased since Independence in 1947. What does that say?
India has had Muslim Presidents, Chief Justices, Chief Ministers, etc. Is that bad treatrment of Muslims
in India? The richest man in India (Azim Premji) is a Muslim.
Yes, whoever targets civilians is a terrorist. Shivaji was not a terrorist. Bin Laden is is a terrorist.
Dara Shikoh was Aurangzeb’s brother, not his son. Aurangzeb got Dara Shikoh murdered after he grabbed power.
Muslims supported Hitler and gave him an affectionate Muslim name — Abu Ali. They loved him because he killed Jews.
Muslims destroyed the famous Buddha statues in Afghanistan without provocation and out of sheer bigotry.
Prophet Muhammad’s birthday is a holiday in India. Is there a holiday for a Hindu festival or Hindu God in any Muslim country?
Without a Muslim apology, if not reparations, for past wrongs done to Hindus by Muslims, it will be difficult to bury the Hindu-Muslim feud. Part of that apology will be for Muslims to wholeheartedly support the building of the new Shivaji statue. Also, Muslims must rebuild Hindu temples in just three of the sites where Hindu temples were destroyed to build mosques: Varanasi (Lord Shiva),Ayodhya (Lord Rama)and Mathura (Lord Krishna). Rebuilding just three out of thousands of Hindu templea destroyed is not asking for much at all.
Rumi’s Islam can bring peace to the world
Jalal-ud-Din Rumi: The Greatest Mystic of Islam
Jalal-ud-Din Rumi was born on September 30, 1207 in Balkh, Afghanistan, wrote in Persian, and died on December 17, 1273, in Konya, Turkey. “Rumi combined the intellect of a Plato, the vision and enlightened soul-force of a Buddha or a Christ, and the extravagant literary gifts of a Shakespeare” writes Andrew Harvey in “The Teachings of Rumi.” , where he also quotes the following verse from Rumi:
“Go on a journey from self to Self, my friend …..
Such a journey transforms the earth into a mine of gold.”
Rumi is today, the most widely read poet in America. In the Islamic world, Rumi is affectionately called “Mevlana” or “Maulana”, meaning “Our Teacher.” Rumi’s magnum opus , the Mathnawi, distills the wisdom and spiritual insights of the Islamic civilization.
The following web site, in the “Places of Peace and Power” series,
gives information on sacred sites related to Rumi in Konya, Turkey:
http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/turkey/konya.htm
The Islam of the Jihadists and the Islamic Fundamentalists is violent, seeks to impose sharia (Islamic Law) on the world through jihad, seeks to rule the world, outlaws music, poetry, and chess, and denies non-muslims and women their human rights. Recently, the President of Iran stated that “Islam will rule the world.” Throughout the world, and especially in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Islamic Religious Schools (madrassas) and mosques preach hatred for non-Muslims. The intolerant Islamic Fundamentalists and Jihadists do not permit non-Muslims to enter the city of Mecca. Non-Muslims everywhere have permitted the Saudis to build mosques in their lands, but the Saudis will not permit the building of a church, synagogue, or a Hindu or Buddhist temple in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic Fundamentalist regime of the Taliban destroyed the priceless Buddha statues in Afghanistan. Islamic Fundamentalists and Jihadists have been causing havoc in the world: the events of September 11, 2001 in the United States, and subsequent violent acts in Bali, Madrid, Holland, Iraq,the United Kingdom, India, France and Jordan are notable examples. The “Caliphate” or Islamic Empire the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists seek to establish would indeed be an “Evil Empire” , to use a term President Ronald Reagan used for the now defunct Soviet Union.
The Islam of Rumi is the anti-thesis of the Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists. The Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists is based on the Islamic Caste System in which Muslim men constitute the upper caste and non-Muslims and women constitute the lower caste, to be subjugated and oppressed. In the Islam of Rumi, all human beings are equal.
The spirit of the Islam of Rumi is expressed beautifully in Rumi’s words which are inscribed on a sign, in English, near Rumi’s mausoleum in Konya, Turkey:
“Come, come whoever you are, whether you be fire-worshippers, idolaters, or pagans. Ours is not the dwelling place of despair. All who enter will receive a welcome here.”
“Rumi said that he should simply say “farewell” to the “immature fanatics” who scorn music and poetry.” (from Robert Kaplan’s “The Ends of the Earth”, pp 143-144).
The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists demand respect by terrorizing people; Rumi commands respect through his espousal of universal values, and his spiritual vision.
The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists attempt to impose the uniformity of sharia
through jihad: Rumi celebrates diversity.
The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists attempt to instill fear in all: Rumi teaches
universal love and understanding.
The Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists is incompatible with the modern world; the Islam of Rumi is just what the modern world needs.
Far from being an Evil Empire, an Islamic Empire based on the Islam of Rumi will be a blessing for the world, and will be welcomed by one and all.
The Islam of Rumi is truly a “Religion of Peace.”
Today, more than ever, the world needs Rumi. The Islam of Rumi ought to be taught in mosques, and madrassas throughout the world. This will usher in the long overdue Islamic Reformation. This alone can avert the “Clash of Civilizations” predicted by Samuel Huntington.
I am a Sufi for a long line of Sufis–600 years worth.
There is only ONE Islam. Rumi’s works reflect the beauty of the Quran.
Your notions of Islam are based on Hinduvata sterotypes and wrong. All this has been refuted thousands of times on this site and the media. (http://rupeenews.com/2008/07/04/oh-india-why-this-global-mischief/) No point in refuting them point by point.
Thank you for your feedback
Don’t hold your breath on an apology from Muslims.
Maybe Hindus should apologize for exterminating Buddhism in the Subcontinent and the Aryans for destroying the Dravadians. Also Hindus should apologize for the 330 million deaths mentioned in the Mahabharta and the Korya Panda wars also.
No source given on Hitler. Information is incorrect. There was no Muslim-Jewish fight in 1939. Jews escaped Spanish Inquisition to Morocco and Istanbul.
You should have picked a different name to disparge Muslims. Abu Ali menas father of Ali and is not really a name. As far as we know Hitler surely did not have a son…and surely not Ali…we call it crackhouse rumors…and your points simply provoke and have no merit to them
Hindus in Pakistan get to celebrate Holi and other events as holidays. Your knowledge of Pakistan is limited nad incorrect.
Rest of data in your post is also unsubstatntiated and incorrect
Your information on Pakistan is incorrect.
Tokenism does not mean “good treatment”. See articles on Indian Muslims on this site.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/06/20/delhi-darbar-indias-hollow-secularism-genocide/
Population of Hindus has also grown since 1948. Nawabshah is pretty much a Hindu majority city.
The last Chief Justice of Pakistan was a Hindu.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/07/04/oh-india-why-this-global-mischief/
Hindus and Indian were in power in the inital days of bangladesh…what did they try to do…merge bangladesh back into India. In 1974 the Bengali patriots killed the Indian agent and threw out the agents working for Rakhi Bahni. Indians in Sikkim merged Sikkim back into India. Indians working in Nepal tried that in Nepal also and in Bhutan…and are trying to take over Sril Lanka and Maldives.
So it is impossible to trust these guys in all these countries some Hindu, some Muslim…
Now you know what RAW is doing.
Hindus did not exterminate Buddhism in India, Muslims did. Ambedkar has said that too. Who destroyed the Buddhist University of Nalanda? Muslims did (Khilji in 1200).
You say Hindus were accorded the same rights as Jews and Christians — as if that means they were treated well. Under Islam, Jews and Christians are also Kafirs and mistreated.
You say “there is only one Islam.” Rumi welcomes idolaters. The Koran (Chapter 9 verse 5) calls on Muslims to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them”.
To say that Rumi and the Koran teach the same Islam is “taqiyya” — the Islamic art of deceiving Kaffirs.
Your claim that “there is only one Islam” is ridiculous (Rumi and Koran are actually contradictory).
Similarly it would be ridiculous to say that “there is only one Hinduism”. The Hinduism of the Manu Smriti, which supports the caste system , contradicts the Hinduism of the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita..
Does Rumi support Sharia Law and the Jihad against Kafirs? Please cite the references where Rumi supports Sharia Law and Jihad against Kaffirs. Then I will agree that there is only one Islam.
There is an Aurangzeb Road in Delhi.
Anti-Hindu Aurangzeb (who destroyed Hindu temples and hurt Hindu religious sentiments) has been honored. Hindus have not demanded that the road be renamed.
Why are Muslims opposing the Shivaji Statue to honor Shivaji who respected the Religion of Islam, never destroyed mosques or Korans, and was chivalrous to Muslim women (according to Muslim historian Khafi Khan) ? PLEASE REPLY TO THIS SPECIFIC POINT.
When Hitler Became Abu Ali
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/hitler_abu.html
Note that this was before Israel was formed.
A Hindu Appreciates Aurangzeb’s action
Although Aurangzeb tortured Shivaji’s son Shambhuji to death, Auranzeb treated Shahu (Shambhuji’s son) well, and did not force him to convert to Islam. For this he has the gratitude of Hindus.
While I respect Rumi, I cannot support Sufi like Al-Ghazali. One has to be careful about Sufis. This is what Al-Ghazali says:
*************************************************
Al Ghazali, perhaps the greatest Muslim scholar and a Sufi wrote:
“One must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a
year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are
in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set
fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab
[People
of The Book - primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage
is [automatically] revoked.One may cut down their trees…One must
destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they
decide…they may steal as much food as they need…
The following shows that the Hindu demand that Muslims rebuild Hindu temples destroyed by Muslims
is valid.
Indira Gandhi ordered operation Blue Star to flush out Sikh terrorists and Bhindranwale from the Golden Temple in Amritsar. The Golden Temple was damaged during the action. Indira Gandhi had it rebuilt.
HITLER:
I believe your point was on Abu Ali..this has nothing to do with Abu Ali.
This is the best you could come up with…a couple of “out of context” sentences from Lebanese papers. The idiot Julian doesn’t even know that the Baath was Christian…this on a site of Christians for Jews.
How silly! She doesn’t know that Lebanon is mostly Christian also.
Muslims fought along with Jews in Africa and defeated hilter (see article of Robert Fisk also posted on this site). The Tartarts, Chechniyanas and Bosnians cut Hitler’s supply lines. Indian Muslim fought the Naziz alsong with Hindus sent to the defense of the Empire by Gandhi (self appointed Recruiter in Chief of the Empire–Source: Rahul Gandhi’s book “Mohandas”)
“One of the misperceptions is that Islam is a religion of violence. But Islam is not the only religion that teaches that war is sometimes necessary and justified. Other religions also openly discuss war. In the Old Testament, there is mention of righteous anger and God tells Jews to wage war against the Canaanites. The Catholic church had St. Augustine of Hippo, who initiated the theory of the “Just War” in the fourth century, and Hinduism’s great Song of the God, the Bhagavad Gita, is about duties that include making war when it is necessary. “
Islam does address the reasons for wars. It is permissible to fight in the defence of one’s country, one’s religious community or injustices against the vulnerable. This permission to fight is always tempered with many limitations, along with the message that to forgive or desist is better.
As there were several battles between the fledgling community of Muslims and the tribes around Mecca and Medina, there are passages in the Qur’an about fighting and battles.
The directions are clear about the right to defend oneself but that to go out looking for fights is not allowed.
“Fight in God’s cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression, for God does not love aggressors … fight against them until there is no more oppression.”
And again.
“Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged … those who have been driven from their homelands … if God had not enabled people to defend themselves against one another, all monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques – in all of which God’s name is abundantly extolled – would surely have been destroyed.”
As for those who died in battle the Qur’an states: “Do not think of those who have been slain in God’s cause as dead. Nay, they are alive! With their Sustainer have they their sustenance … no fear need they have nor shall they grieve … “
What a lie.? This guys [personal attacks and rudeness deleted] and presenting India in as a fanatic nation just to hide the fact of home of terrorism which is Pakistan.
Mughals rulers were outsiders. They were never Indian. However until Aurangjeb all Mugal ruler were tolerant to Hinduism.
It was Aurangjeb who started started forcefully conversion of Hindus to Muslims and kill those who deny him.
Sikh Guru Teg Bahadur Singh was one of those who was brutally tortured and eventually killed for not accepting Islam by Aurangjeb.
Sivaji was a freeodm fighter. He opposed the brutality of Aurangjeb. Auranjeb sent many of his pimps to kill Sivaji. Afzal Shah was one of those. Who though he can easily kill Sivaji by hand as he was physically much bigger in size. He was killed by Sivaji rigth on spot.
It was Sivaji who saved lakhs of Hindus whom Mughal Emperor Aurangjeb was forcefully converting.
About Maharastrian Govt building statue of Shivaji, what’s wrong in that?? Why should it be a matter of Pakistani what Indian govt has to do??
Get a life you looser and look into your own backyad. Your country is almost near to one more division after 1971.
Please note that Rupee News is a US based newspaper.
The mentality of those who support the Shivaji shows in these posts. That was a purpose of the orignal post. The bigots came like flies to honey and posted bigoted comments about Islam, Pakistan and all sorts of subjects–all to protect Shivaji.
See this commentator call Mughals “outsiders”.
On Pakistan–here is the stadnard response # 786 already posted under the Pakistan tab:
http://rupeenews.com/2008/04/26/india-is-as-much-a-country-as-the-equator-winston-churchill/
Also see
http://rupeenews.com/2007/11/27/here-we-go-again-another-indian-prophecy-of-doom-the-first-one-came-in-1947/
QED
Brahmans exterminating Buddhism in India:—it all started and ended WAY before Khilji arived on the scene.
Read Raj Kalani’s history of Kashmir
http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/03/why-did-buddhism-disappear-from-the-south-asian-subcontinent-summary-of-brahmin-atrocities-that-destroyed-buddhism-in-the-subcontinent/
Why you deleted my posts??
Donot you have courage to keep those?? :-))))))
[rudeness/profanity edited] [personal attacks deleted} As reported in your site India is poorer and in a state of anarchy than Pakistan. Read any international reports to get your facts right. Well, you don't dare talk about our fellow brothers religion.
FYI Budhhism, Sikhism are not different religions. Lord Budhha is one of the messengers of our Hindu Brothers. Even till this date Hindu brothers worship Buddha. (lot of ISKCON in USA, check out).
All Hindu families in Punjab gave their elder sons for Guru's service to fight the intolerant Mughals and came to be known as Sikhs. The so-many religions are just a policy of divide and rule by soem politicians. Seeing Moin's comments, I know it useless to talk to him also. [personal attacks deleted] FYI Change with Times, otherwise you will be left behind by centuries as you are now in Pakistan. …
May Allah give you a little wisdom.
Majid
The question is..did Lord Buddha want to be worshipped?
Buddha was not Hindu–Suddharta actually rejected Hindusism in all its forms.
Some Hindus worship Buddha, but Buddhists in China, Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Korea, Sri Lanka and Tibet are not Hindus—neither do they worship any Hindu Gods. The Buddhists are not HIndu.
By destroying Buddhism in the land of its birth, some Hindus tried to incorporate Buddhism into Hindusism. It has not worked.(see article why did Buddhism disappear? on this site)
Sikhs were advised to marry one son to Hindus and one to Muslims. Muslims did not want to marry a Sikh so it was left out to dry.
It is very strange that you say Sikhism and Buddhism is the same. THe Koreans would disagree with you
Majid Khan, after reading all your passages regarding, I can only conclude that you are among those Muslims who are known for spoiling the image of Islam. The person who don’t care about his own religion doesn’t reserve any right to blame others and teach them a lessons regarding Buddha and Sikhs. Go and see who were in afganistan involved in destruction of gigantic Buddha statues. I knew that you only have the wisdom of some cheap words which you people use to best effect to get their messege across.
Vacuity of ideas forces people to make personal attacks on “Majid Khan”.
Credibility is shown by using real names and read ids to make comments.
“Martha”, your comments should be on the content of the material persented.
What does the subject at hand have to do with the price of rice in China? We are not discussing the destruction of Buddhism in South Asia by the Brahamanism in this article.(http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/03/why-did-buddhism-disappear-from-the-south-asian-subcontinent-summary-of-brahmin-atrocities-that-destroyed-buddhism-in-the-subcontinent/) Not sure what the Taliban had to do with Shivaji’s statue?
Dear Mr. Moin Ansari, you better check out your history knowledge first. Afzal Khan was not a from Mughal empire as you stated in your article; but was from Adilshahi kingdom. This fact raises question on credibility of your article. Perhaps the whole articles is based on false information. Please buy some good history book, read it (its important) and then attempt to write anything.
Hunh? The AdilShahis were a protectorate of the Mughals–once Adil Shah was attacked Aurenzeb retaliated.
http://books.google.com/books?id=HHyVh29gy4QC&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=Afzal+Khan+mughal+empire&source=bl&ots=5qhK9G4_he&sig=_ogNTVIob4srv7ZZvooTwt5p2ks&hl=en&ei=qWrKS5uGIsP48AaXo5mBBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Shaista Khan was ordered by Aurangzeb to attack Shivaji per the Mughal-Adilshahi accord. Shaista Khan, with his better equipped and provisioned army of 100,000 that was many times the size of the Maratha forces, seized Pune and the nearby fort of Chakan. At the time, Firangoji Narsala was the killedar (Commander of the fort) of fort Chakan, which was defended by 300–350 Maratha soldiers. They were able to withstand the Mughal attack on the fort for one and a half month. Then, a burj (outer wall) was blown up with explosives. This created an opening to the fort allowing hordes of Mughals to breach the exterior portion of the fort. Firangoji, himself led the Marathas against a larger Mughal army.[6][13] Eventually, the fort was lost with the capture of Firangoji, who then was brought before Shaista Khan, who, appreciating his ferocious bravery, offered him a jahagir (military commission) on the condition that he join the Mughal forces, which Firangoji declined. Admiring his loyalty, Shaista Khan pardoned Firangoji and set him free. Firangoji returned home and Shivaji awarded him a fort named Bhupalgad.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2053980
Muslims are like jungle dogs. Alone a dog will be wag tail& beg but when they are in majority they bark and bite.
(Stalin,hitler, daits, women, naxalite) My dear “Editor”when you will stop chanting and talking rhetoric in deep sleep. Do you also walk in sleep ?
Saudi arab is not pakistan’s or Moin Ansari’s estate
My dear “Editor”., Shivaji was real Kalki Avatar of india who knew how to tackle muslims of all kinds. He came , he saw and he won.
He gave dimension to hinduism like never before
He is highly revered in India and hated by people like you.
We are sorry for you
[Editor]
Mr. Afzalkhan broke large nos of Hindu temples. He & his men raped large nos of hindu women. There are proofs for this available. Still you think that afzalkhan was a goof peson ? He wanted to kill Shivaji raje. Raje only saved himself. Are u supporting Afzal & going against Shivaji raje just because you are muslim ?
Raj posing as Viswanthe
This article is about Shivaji–we have written a very fair and balanced article which clearly states that both Hindus and Muslims were part of both armies–Shivaji’s and Aurenzeb and his proxy armies.
We simply state that Shivaji was resisting the government in Hindustan with violent means. His rebellion waged against the Central Authority would be labeled as Terrorism.
If he is not a terrorist, then there are no terrorists in Bharat–all of them are resisting the rule of law with bloody and illegal means.
The fact is that Shivaji was a terrorist. He killed a peace emissary with a dagger hidden in his hand–an abominable act of murder of the ambassador. Shivaji should have been unarmed like the Ambassador.
[...]…you suck big time…..be thankful to to land where you are staying….if you would been in some other country by now you would have vanished from the face of earth…..bloody hypocrite !! Shivaji was native of this place and you muslims were invaders ….. he fought against invaders to protect natives…..he was tru nationalist and patriot !!
Editor’s Note: Law Enforcement authorities should not the physical threat of violence against the Editor’s of Rupee News. This threat will be sent to the FBI and your ISP provider NIB (National Internet Backbone), in Ahmadabad, Gujarat
@ karan
Inability to take criticism is unique quality of the world’s largest Nehuristocracy.
We are not shaking in our boots. We know exactly what you hoodlums are capable of doing in Gujarat. We will not be cowed down–and will continue to expose the atrocities and continue to speak up against injustice.
In fact–read our latest expose of Shiviji–we are sure you will enjoy it!
http://rupeenews.com/2010/07/31/chhatrapati-shivaji-unmasked-was-he-born-out-of-wedlock/
Let me guess what you will do–send back abusive language-then you will take the low route and begin abusing religious figures. We know the mentality.
As i m HINDU i m not afraid of these article written by muslim. because this is the magic of DOSE given by our HINDU KING SHIVAJI MAHARAJ to your fore fathers which u cant forget still now……
Rawal
Shivaji was a terrorist. He was fighting the Central authority. He fought a asymmetric guerrilla warfare which Delhi today brands as terrorism.
I FIND NO POINT IN EVEN PAYING HEED TO SUCH A WORTHLESS ARTICLE.
AND BTW MR. EDITOR CHECK YOUR HISTORY,
1. ADILSHAHI WAS A SMALEER KINGDOM CONFINED TO SOUTH INDIA AND IN WHAT WAY CAN IT BE A PROTECTOR OF MUGHALS
2. SHIVAJI MAHARAJ NEVER EVER RAIDED A MASJID
3. HE CONSIDERE YAKUB BABA AS ONE OF HIS GURUS SO IN WHAT WAY CAN HE BE ANTI MUSLIM
4. HIS WRITTEN LETTERS ARE AVAILABLE IN WHICH HE ORDERS HIS ARMY TO NOT RAID ANY RELIGIOUS PLACE OF ANY RELIGION, AND FOR DOING SO HE HAS ORDER STRICT PUNISHMENT.
SO MR. EDITOR IN WHAT WAY IS HE ANTI MUSLIM
STOP SPREADING WRONG MESSAGE.
Viraj:
In fact–if you had taken the trouble to READ the article you would have seen that we presented a fair picture of Shivaji and decried the binary approach to history based on the writings of various Bharati authors.
Great review on “secular mughal and secular shiva ji.
Drafting siva as icon of hindu nationalism,was indeed needed as there was nothing to rally around;This was another british success story.
But unfortunately modern hindus are radicalized by british created history with an agenda to creat mutual hatred; they succeeded.
I am happy to note that you have very clearly showed that hindu muslim soldiers had served both sides; this even began when Prithvi raj joined hands with Ghaznavids to repell Ghouri ( 12th cent).Hindus in fact suffer a great ” inferiority complex “and cannot swallow 1000 yrs muslim domination; writings of Dayanand and viveka nand etc reflects this vividly; Easiest thing for them is to caste out Muslims as foreigners and discover Siva ji, prithivi raj fictions.They get their high from the fabricated history.
WHO knows that Mehmood Ghaznzvi’s generals were hindus too,one was TILAK as elaborated by Nehru and included in my book as well.
Only one thing i will add to your main article; This is a collaboration between SHIA south,sivaji group shia iran and some brtish of surat plus a Rebellous son of Aurangzeb, Akbar. The alliance finally lost to central govt; Akbar took refuge in Iran and fate of others is well known.Secular Auranzeb, destroyed masids and mandirs both part of army action.Auranzeb had created the largest ever India;Assam,tibet,etc were annexed by him.
Some pple single him out for killing his brothers.There are many such episodes in pre islamic history of india and also all over in all religion; This is lust of power, human issue.
Siva ji is the only icon of Shiv sena.he is the only hero they can feel proud.Thus they have their statue;nothing good/bad abt it.
Interestingly many commentrators still are hung up on 8th grade british created history—Muslims as foreigners even after 1000 yrs. They need to look at historical origin of indians from africa and Babylon and evolution of Hindu culture system from MIDEAST including skt from ancient arabic ( akkadian);Dr Malati shingde ( a marhatta) elabotates on this besides my own book;” urdu/hindi an artificial dicvide, african heritage”.
For history of Siva ji and aurangzeb, best source is Jadav nath sarkar’s Aurangzeb in 5 vols. Indians and Pakistanis need to read some authentic history to get out of box;Your article is one good example that absolves you from India bashing.
Did the British create the Hindu-Muslim divide ? I do not think so.
The Hindu-Muslim divide was caused by destruction of Hindu temples by Muslims, raping of Hindu women by Muslims, robbing and looting of Hindus by Muslims. This is clear from reading the history.
Muslims had been attacking India for 1000 years before the arrival of British rule.
Muslims hate the British because they ended Muslim rule in India.
British rule brought scientific progress to India and Hindus benefited from it. Islamic rule did nothing to improve the status of Hindus
Your “temple indoctrination” does not allow you to see facts. Hindu Imperialism decimated Jainism and Buddhism in South Asia, and then went after the Buddhists in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam as far as Indonesia.
The Bonded laborers and Shudras were liberated by the Muslims who converted en masse and forms the basis of todays South Asia.
In the 17th century South Asia controlled 25% of the world trade. In 1947 it was less than 3%.
Jehangir was the richest man in the world, the Mughal Empire brought tremendous development to South Asia, Mughal technology was better than European technology in the 17th century. See BBC comapritive analysis.
The British looted trillions of Dollars in coal, textiles, food and minerals and didn’t pay a dime. The used Indian soldiers as cannon fodder in their wars, and used them as slave labor to build railroads in Kenya, Uganda, the Caribbean, and other places
The British concocted Hinduism, Hindu history and conjured up names like “Ashoka” which had never been mentioned in any history book ever. There is no record of him in Greek or local history. THe pillars associated with him pre-date him and some pre-date Buddhism. The Gupta dynasty cannot be confirmed, even by Bharati historians.
The Hindu College was created which disallowed Muslims an education.
Sanskrit a dead language was imposed on the Muslims which made them illiterate over-night. You can read about this in Jaswant SInghs book “Jinnah”
Hmm….What an insightful article!! Loved it! Didn’t know history with such dimensions….and depth! Accept my congratulations, and heartfelt thank for enlightening us.
btw..you forgot to mention a few things in this article in continuity and in beginning…like
1. How the entire world was formed of a single cookie…kept in a milk jar…!
2. Cars are not made of steel, but dew drops.
3. Colombo is capital of USA, and UK combined.
4. Headquarter of UNO is in Islamabad.
5. Nile flows through garrison city of Rawalpindi.
6. Mount Colorado is in Lahore.
7. Hindus are actually Muslim converts, and so are Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Sikhs etc etc
8. China is at Pakistan’s mercy for its bread and butter.
9. Japan and Germany are a part of Pakistan.
10. And whiskey is made from curd, and ghee!
11. And water from Rum!
Cheers….let me sit and have kharore with rum!
Rantings of a mad man?
You forgot
1) Bharat is a Superpower
2) Bharat is the richest country in the world
3) Moon is made up of cheese
4) Bharat is clean
5) Bharat doesn’t kill 10 million girl babies every year before and after death
6) 75% of Bharatis don’t live under $2 per day
7) Bharat is not one the largest recipient of aid in the world
8) Bharat does not receive 500 million Pound Sterling from UK
9) Japan is not the largest donor of aid to Bharat
10) The Ganga is a clean river
11) Hlaf of the residents of Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Lucknow, Kolkota don’t sleep on the sidewalk
12) The Dalai Lams is wrong, Buddhism is part of Hinduism
13) India is not named after a Pakistani river
14) Pultizer Prize winner and Gandhi’s grandsons are wrong, Gandhi was not a racist, homosexual and did not sleep naked with 12 year old girls and did not have an affair with Sarla Devi.
hahahahaha …… what a befitting reply.
Cheers.
15. Bharat cities smell nice and people do not defecate on the street.
16. India is a Secular nation that does not marginalise non uppercaste Hindus and does not still promote a caste syste..
17. Hindus ruled the world through mythological Kings from Arabia to Indonesia.
18. Blah blah blah…
12.Pakistan was not created out of bloodbath but out of love.All Hindus and Muslims marched in a single lines in most orderly fashion to their respective homelands. 13.The authors of Freedom at Midnight are liars.Jinnah was a pious man who did his namaz regularly,never touched pork,wore self spun swadeshi cloth,and never made passes at Lady Mountbatten.14.The Mohajirs were welcomed with love and affection and today they live peacefully with fellow Pakistanis.They love the name Mohajir.15.Sunni and Shiahs loved each other ever after.They never blow each other s mosques.16.Ahmadiyahs were welcomed as a valuable member of Muslims.17.Pakistan defeated India and liberated Bangladesh.18.Pakistan s closest ally Saudi begged for Pakistan s permission before recognizing Bangladesh and another close ally US,actually attacked India with the deployed USS Washington.19.Pakistan got the UK expelled from the Commonwealth at least 3 or 4 times.20.Pakistan is truly democratic nation.No military coup ever takes place unlike neighbouring India,who holds a world record for military coups.21.Civilian govt and military of Pakistan love each other and never try to kill each other.Shariff was just joking when he tried to prevent Parvez s plane from landing.Khan did not hang Ali Bhutto and Benazir is not murdered.22.Pakistan gives regular aid to the US and in exchange Pakistan allows US drones to drop gift hampers on Pakistanis.23.Pakistan keeps China under its thumb.China ceded territories to Pakistan.24.Pakistan have sent mission to outer space and the Moon and found water and other minerals.25.The water of the Indus,where India is named by the Greeks,are managed well and never dry up.26.When the Indus did overflow,Pakistan s democratically elected leaders stayed put and helped its people.27.All world powers went to Islamabad and condemned Delhi for terrorism.28.Karachi like before independance is a peaceful city.29.Nermen Sheikh was lying in his book Slums Society and Shelter and so did many other authors when they say that Pakistani cities are overflowing with slums that reflects govt failure.30.Goldman Sachs, Standard Poors,Moodys,and many other international organizations are all lying when they said India will be one of the economic superpower in the world by 2050.31.Swat valley is under full Pakistan control.The Pakistani forces just went there for vacation just like they entered Lal Masjid for prayers.32.The Talibans and residents of FATA,Balochistan all acknowledge Pakistan s sovereignity.33.Majority of Kashmiris want to join Pakistan. And the list continues…
Its not even funny!
I could go by a point by point rebuttal—but whats the point…thats why the Two Nation think differently, and your rhetoric is a prime example of the differences in our thinking
Rajesh,
But we have reclaimed our land, we are masters of our own destiny we have inhrited the Indus as the legitimate heirs. We are the progeny and inheritors of the great Mughal Empire,
We sacrificed for our land and we will do so again – time and time again. There is nothing your kind can ever do to colonise our nation as you are not your European masters who handed you occupied, colonised sovereign nations under the title India. Worry about the rest of your India do not worry about us – you inherited the rich British Empire in this region called India we reclaimed our nation, named it Pakistan but began with nothing. Yet the difference between your nation and our nation is not light years, we have created our nations from the grass roots. Compare your condition to that of the Chinese – we have done well and will continue to do well.
We will glady spill our blood to protect our Pak Sar Zameen from the vile designs of those who seek to colonise it again.
We are Muslims, our faith , culture and language has influenced the world over while your kind continue to live off a borrowed history, borrowed nation and live in the mythologies of your farcical legends.
When India becomes the next “economic power” I will happily eat humble pie. The reality is your old masters need their old brown sahibs to stop unity amongst Muslims in this and the wider region because this is a greater threat on their way of life. This threat that the Muslim lands will be in control of their own resources and destinies once again. A greater threat is that muslim nations will create a quasi Islamic union / Khilafah and create a united defence form, become integrated via road and rail links and will render western economies and their influence in resource rich lands powerless.
India will always be their proxy and they care not that it will implode and burst back into little sovreign nations. It is in their favour that India is supported to become an economic power because if they and along with India do not interfere with Pakistans growth it will rightfully succeed and take up its rightful place as the legacy of the Mughal Empire (Mughalistan) and the real legitimate heir to the Indus Valley Civilisation. Like our yester years we have the ability to become rich, strong and influential. Our history is real, recorded and yours is made up and your legitimacy is questionable.
If in my lifetime if India becomes a economic power I will eat humble pie but it will not and I am 100% confident it is you who will be ummming and hmming. The bubble has already burst, their are little sound bites in the media promoting a Shining India as of recent. The Neocons have gone and thus any agenda to dismember Pakistan and hegemonise this region through their proxy India has gone with them.
The inflated ego of many Indians will be going pop! pop! pop! 5 years from now. Rajesh your kind were jubilant that Pakistan will be divided only 2 years ago and many like me and rupee news were telling your kind this is not the case and is part of the Grand Game. A game that India even under an American umbrella can never win.
We are still here and will be here for a very long time but here is my 2 bobs worth. India as you know it will not be here in the next 50 years – I won’t wish you long life to witness this but should you be around remember me.
This verbal tennis you play can go on forever but it has always been game set match to Rupee News.
Who the bloomin hell was shivaji a made up fictitious character.
Islamic history has thousands of heroes, real, relevant and recorded.
You might aswell put Mickey Mouse on that horse – why not both are made up and more people know about Mickey Mouse.
When their Akhand Bharat foreign and spiritual policy falls apart and it paves way to Ghazwa -e- Hind this will be removed and dismantled as it is insulting :). Insulting that we Muslims are afraid of a Mickey Mouse type character – do you not have any real men?
No sane Hindu Indian wants Akhand Bharat.
No Hindu wants 400 million more Muslims in India.
Wrong. India desires a breakup of Pakistan. Upon a breakup, it fantasizes annexing and ‘reclaiming’ Lahore, the punjab and sindh. She would now have the ‘holy’ Indus river (the only crystal clean river in all of south asia) and turn it into a gutter like the rivers of india. This would leaving KP and Baluchistan as buffer states in India’s sphere of influence and a link to central asia.
It is not that you don’t want this territory, it is that you cannot have it without walking over our collective dead bodies.
Is there such a thing?
I refer to Sane Hindus
I will go one step further and question Sane Hindu-ism.
Your Shivaji was a 2 bit dacoit, bandit no doubt an arse bandit who paved way for the colonisation of the Sub continent by the feranghee.
Make your minds up HIndus, either we Muslims were ex-Hindu converts or we are foreign and came from outside. Your histories are as schizophrenic as your personalities.
Yes we are different, and came from the North from the land we call Pakistan and further West and North and we ruled over your kind with great honour.
A colleague went to India on Holiday – just for the record hated it but said it is a strange place with a mix kesh of identities, Hindu, Islamic and Colonial era. You can run, you can hide but you can never hide from your Islamic past – the greatest era that your wretched land saw. So mycolleague brought back photos – it struck me that all he was swhowing was the history of an Islamic India. All that is magical about India stems from the Arabic, Islamic Influence, the architecture, the food, the language.
Shivaji was a terrorist – nor a freedom fighter nor a revolutionary but a two bit dacoit the closest thing a Hindu can find for a hero. In one generation of Islam there ar emore Heroes “real and tangible” than the history of mankind.
Your spiritual leaders have forewarned you not to tip the balance or any status quo between the Hindu lands and the “northern Kingdoms” – Pakistan, China, Central Islamic Asia and Western Asia is what they referred to. No amount of a two bit Shivaji would be able to stop the cry of the mUjahid that will bring the HinduKush to life again – the sons of Abdali, Ghauri, Ghazni, Zaman Shah, Nadir Shah etc etc wave after wave are stillfeared by you. Your entire mental psyche and foreign policy revolves around us.
You are a wretched, conpiring and treacherous people especially the dirt that reside in Mumbai as exemplified from the Hindu responses.
Our kind have influenced the world over, we will continue to influence the world, we have a major impact on the world – your kind are dressed up buffed up Maharajas – little brown noses.
Aurangzeb destroyed Hindu temples. Shivaji never destroyed Muslim places of worship. They were poles apart.
Shivaji was a terrorist
You have reached the upper echelons of your mental capacity
Nothing intellectual about these flame baits. You can contineu the mantra which stems from your “temple indoctrination”
Aurangzeb followed Islam, which includes Jihad against Kafirs and imposition of Sharia. He had to destroy Hindu temples,
for that is commanded by Islam.
Shivaji followed Hinduism, and so tolerated all forms of worship.
Islam needs reform.
Shivaji was a discontented megalomaniac who lost
Nothing intellectual about these flame baits. You can continue the mantra which stems from your “temple indoctrination”
I think you too have rightly concluded that Islam cannot be reformed.
Reformation of Hindusim will lead to its destruction and elimination of the Caste system. A Non-Hindu India waits you
SHIVA JI/PRITHVI RAJ, pride of HINDU NATIONLIST.
NONE of them were anti muslim at all as opposed to “FICTIONAL DREAMS” of poets. Mr objective nanlyst of rupee news need to read history of Majumdar and Jn Sarkar–JL nehru,DR TARACHAND.
WHY aurengzeb fell ? and lead to moghal,s fall. IRAN had blocked western trade ways, and sea lanes were blocked by Portugese/french/dutch and later British; India had a sort of tradee embargo. WHEN aurangzeb expelled british from hoogly from india completely- the game changed. Ecnomic slowdown excessive export levy etc cracked up moghal india; Jackal/ hyenas predetors. like shiva ji started looting local hindu/muslim subedars/governors. SHIVA ji , an excellent Gorrila fighter was one of those opportunists likes nawab of oudh, many muslim amd non muslims nawaab. NOT at all ANTI muslim. MARHATTA were inducted as prime ministers by moghals after Auranzeb.
MANY pple dont know abt ” SARVARKAR’s ” analysisis for the failure of 1857; HE had lauded and had supported BAHADUR sha’s vision; ( The book was banned ). SARVASKAR, was perhaps bribed by british to change to HINDUTVA modum later. SO marhatta were powerfull mercinaries of MOGHALs and NOT anti m uslim.
READ uo guys some truthfull books.
This is why we love you—
The two pearls of wisdom are invaluable. Lets explore further
1) Reasons for the fall of Aurenzeb as described by you–this is new and the trade embargo aspect of it needs to be written about
2) Sarvarkar’s 1857 comments. Which book was it?
Why aurengzeb fell ? and lead to moghal,s fall.
a) Iran had blocked western trade ways,
b) Sea lanes were blocked by Portugese/french/dutch and later British;
c) India had a sort of tradee embargo.
d) When Aurangzeb expelled british from hoogly from india completely- the game changed.
e) Ecnomic slowdown excessive export levy etc cracked up moghal india;
f) Jackal/ hyenas predetors. like shiva ji started looting local hindu/muslim subedars/governors. SHIVA ji , an excellent Gorrila fighter was one of those opportunists likes nawab of oudh, many muslim amd non muslims nawaab.
SARVARKER’s CONVERSION to HINDUTVA.
His 1909 book, ( proscribed by British) published in Holland entitled “The indian war of independence, 1857″ had lauded Bahadur shah as great freedom fighter. He had depicted hundus/muslim as same ” sons of soil “-one nation and British to be thrown out; British banned his book– becuase of inspired hindu muslim cooperation; Remember, 6 yrs later they brought in Gandhi to tame a extremist congrss amd muslim league that had signed the ” lucknow pact”. Sarvarkers perhaps got bribed intio Hindu Mahasabha of 1921 ? by british.
I got this from the Hindu of 5/10/2005, an article by Subramanyam swami.
I will love to see the book if you ever find it; Be happy to fax the article if needed.
Aurangzeb under trade sanction:
is my own idea. Iran,had always demanded west of indus as theirs and later Nadir shah’s invasion had this vision; He got this plus Kashmir into Iran–in the treaty. controll of tradeways is controll of jugglers.
Because of ecnomic hardship, Alamgir perhaps even had reimposed Jazia ( see my book ). You can visualize the scenario of this land and naval embargo–a critical situation.
Pakistan now controlls those landways; I see the future of south asia on this fundamental—peace has to prevail. Here india instead of Aurangzeb is chechmated.
Jazya is a red herring. Non-Muslims dont pay 2.5% zakat, so they pay 2.5% jazya
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