Thank you for your feedback,valuable insight and documentation. It is a pleasure to get good facts. We have already modified the narrative to reflect your information (pls provide sources and citations and full name–if you want to be credited by name).

Shivajee opposed the Mughal Empire on religious and political grounds. He is a hero in “secular” India for his “guerilla warfare” against the Muslim king. For most neutral historians, Shivjee was a simple terrorist. There are some Muslims in the BJP also. Tokenism means nothing.The religion of some fringe elements of Aurenzeb’s mighty empire who joined the terror gangs is not material.

The fact remains that Shivji the darling of the Hinduvata should not be honored in a secular state. Of course India is another matter.

The world is very aware of “secular” Indians, like Nehru and Indira, and religious one like Mohandas. At least with the BJP and Advani the world knows what it is getting. With the others its Shivaji’s motto “baghal main churi, moon peh Ram Ram”. This is how Shivaji stabbed the Mughal emperor’s emissary..during an embrace, in the back!

Even Muslim historian Khafi Khan has praised Shivaji for his tolerance of other religions and his chivalry.
Aurangzeb destroyed Hindu temples and imposed Jizya taxes on Hindus – Islam requires these actions.

There is some evidence of what you say. We have updated the article with that evidence.

However the Hinduvata and you are using Shivaji as a symbol to malign all Muslims and the Mughals–this makes Shivaji a convtraversial figure in todaus Islamaphic environment in Bharat.

The statue will typify communalism and detracts from the “Indian secdularism” which some support.

Your comments here and elsewhere expose the unerbelly of communal thought in Bharat and simply proves our point.

AURENZEB: Muslim pay 2.5% as “zakat”. Becuase non-Muslims were not required to pay “zakat” they paid “jizya”. All other propoganda against Aurenzeb is just that…a way to malign all Muslims.

The poulation of Hindus under the Mughal grew and did not shirnk. Compare to 15th centure Spain when all Muslims were kiled or converted. The Mughals did not do that to the Hindus. Many Hindus were part and parcel of the Mughal Army and also in the Royal household Dara Shikoh had a Hindu mother.

Thank you for your feedback

There are other errors in the article. Afzal Khan was not a general of Aurangzeb or the Mughals. He was a general of one of the Sultanates of the South.

While you may delight in calling Shivaji a “two-bit Raja”,
the fact is that the movement he started eventually brought down Aurangzeb who delighted in destroying Hindu temples. Can you object to Hindus considering Shivaji a hero?

I have yet to see a Muslim condemn the desecration of Hindu temples by Aurangzeb or other Muslims, of which there are countless examples. Can a good Muslim condemn the destruction of the temples of “idolaters” (Hindus) and still be considered a good Muslim?

Hindus do not study the Manu Smriti ,which prescribes the caste system as a holy book any more. Is it not time for Muslims to replace the Koran by Rumi’s Mathnawi? Unlike the Koran, the Mathnawi does not preach Jihad against non-Muslims.

Hindus have rejected the caste system. Is it not time for Muslims to reject Jihad against Kaffirs and reject the unjust Sharia Law which oppresses both women and non-Muslims?

Why do Muslims object to the glorification of Shivaji when according to Muslim historians themselves, Shivaji respected the Religion of Islam and was chivalrous towards Muslim women? Was it wrong for him to oppose Aurangzeb who wanted to destroy Hindu temples?

About the Afzal Khan incident. Did you know that on an earlier occasion, Afzal Khan had killed Kasturi Ranga, a Hindu whom he had invited for “talks”? Afzal Khan’s penchant for killing his adversaries he had invited for talks was well known. Afzal Khan had also killed Shivaji’s brother Shambhuji. Later, Aurangzeb tortured Shivaji’s son Shambhji to death. Shambhuji, Shivaji’s son,, who was named after his uncle Shambhuji who had been killed by Afzal Khan.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Shivaji never targeted Muslim CIVILIANS. His guerilla tactics were used against THE ARMIES of Aurangzeb.

Terrorists like Bin Laden target CIVILIANS.
Your comparison is not valid.

By that definition, Shivaji was not a terrorist.

By your definion who ever targets civilians is a terrorist?

Correct? Kindly answer yes or no?

Thank you for your feedback.

Your description of Khan is incorrect. He was absolutely allied with the Mughals and represented them in the South. Many Hindus were also allied with the Mughals and in fact Shivahi also fought with Hindus also. In fact many Hindu kingdosm copied the Mughal patwari system and imposed reverse jizya and “zakat” (not called zakat0 on the Hindu subjects.

Not sure why the discussion of Shivaji has turned into a discusion of Islam.

Aurenzeb was the Emperor of a large part of the Subcontinent. It is like defining Prime Minister Mr. Singh as a Sikh government. Mr. Sings today represents the power of New Delhi. Like all Mughal Emperors, Aurenzeb had people of all faiths in his court. His son Dara Shikoh was from a Hindu wife and may have been Hindu. Disparaging Aurenzeb and making him into a caricature— hurts the feelings of a large section of the population. Describing Shivaji as a Hindu leader automatically puts him on a collision course with many Indians. Describing Aurenzeb as a Muslim Emperor is inaccurate, incorrect and one the main reasons of the Two Nation Theory and separation between Muslims and Hindus.

Masnavi is based on the Quran. There is no contradiction. Your understanding of the Quran makes some basic assumptions that are incorrect and based on communalism. In fact many Muslim emperors had declared Hindus as “people of the book” (Source Karen Armstonrg:-History of God) and accorded all the rights and privilages given to Jews and Christians.

No Muslim government has come near the atrocities of Stalin, Mao, Cambodian killing fieds, Hootoo Tootsis, WW1 (15 million killed), WW2 (50 million killed) , the Spanish Inquisition etc etc. Accrding to the Mahabaharta the inter-aryan wars killed 330 million people (I didn’t make up the numbers..I just report them). The Aryan-Dravidian wars (Kora pandas) killed millions also.

Kindly read the “meesaq e madina” posted under the tab “Islam”.

Desecration of temples in Medival times is a complex issue and cannot be answered in a sound bite. In summary the temple was the center of finance, politics, social activity and many times the temple was also the treasury. Hindu temples were not just places of workship, they represented the physical and financial power of the state. Jesus also spoke up about the activities of in the Jewish temples. Hindus armies when they marched against each other also raided temples. Christian armies when they occupied Hindu states also attacked the treasury “Fort Knox” which kept real estate records, women, gols, silver etc. Using medival times to describe Islam works well to burn Muslims in Gujrat, harass them in Kashmir and destroy the Babri Masjid, but it has nothing to do with reality.

There are many supporters of Hilter in the BJP. Mr. Modi is one of them. Why don’t you put up a statue of Mr. Hilter in Mumbai also!

Dara Shikoh was Aurangzeb’s brother, not his son. Aurangzeb got Dara Shikoh murdered after he grabbed power.

Muslims supported Hitler and gave him an affectionate Muslim name — Abu Ali. They loved him because he killed Jews.

Muslims destroyed the famous Buddha statues in Afghanistan without provocation and out of sheer bigotry.

Prophet Muhammad’s birthday is a holiday in India. Is there a holiday for a Hindu festival or Hindu God in any Muslim country?

Rumi’s Islam can bring peace to the world

Jalal-ud-Din Rumi: The Greatest Mystic of Islam

Jalal-ud-Din Rumi was born on September 30, 1207 in Balkh, Afghanistan, wrote in Persian, and died on December 17, 1273, in Konya, Turkey. “Rumi combined the intellect of a Plato, the vision and enlightened soul-force of a Buddha or a Christ, and the extravagant literary gifts of a Shakespeare” writes Andrew Harvey in “The Teachings of Rumi.” , where he also quotes the following verse from Rumi:
“Go on a journey from self to Self, my friend …..
Such a journey transforms the earth into a mine of gold.”
Rumi is today, the most widely read poet in America. In the Islamic world, Rumi is affectionately called “Mevlana” or “Maulana”, meaning “Our Teacher.” Rumi’s magnum opus , the Mathnawi, distills the wisdom and spiritual insights of the Islamic civilization.

The following web site, in the “Places of Peace and Power” series,
gives information on sacred sites related to Rumi in Konya, Turkey:

http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/turkey/konya.htm

The Islam of the Jihadists and the Islamic Fundamentalists is violent, seeks to impose sharia (Islamic Law) on the world through jihad, seeks to rule the world, outlaws music, poetry, and chess, and denies non-muslims and women their human rights. Recently, the President of Iran stated that “Islam will rule the world.” Throughout the world, and especially in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Islamic Religious Schools (madrassas) and mosques preach hatred for non-Muslims. The intolerant Islamic Fundamentalists and Jihadists do not permit non-Muslims to enter the city of Mecca. Non-Muslims everywhere have permitted the Saudis to build mosques in their lands, but the Saudis will not permit the building of a church, synagogue, or a Hindu or Buddhist temple in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic Fundamentalist regime of the Taliban destroyed the priceless Buddha statues in Afghanistan. Islamic Fundamentalists and Jihadists have been causing havoc in the world: the events of September 11, 2001 in the United States, and subsequent violent acts in Bali, Madrid, Holland, Iraq,the United Kingdom, India, France and Jordan are notable examples. The “Caliphate” or Islamic Empire the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists seek to establish would indeed be an “Evil Empire” , to use a term President Ronald Reagan used for the now defunct Soviet Union.

The Islam of Rumi is the anti-thesis of the Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists. The Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists is based on the Islamic Caste System in which Muslim men constitute the upper caste and non-Muslims and women constitute the lower caste, to be subjugated and oppressed. In the Islam of Rumi, all human beings are equal.

The spirit of the Islam of Rumi is expressed beautifully in Rumi’s words which are inscribed on a sign, in English, near Rumi’s mausoleum in Konya, Turkey:
“Come, come whoever you are, whether you be fire-worshippers, idolaters, or pagans. Ours is not the dwelling place of despair. All who enter will receive a welcome here.”
“Rumi said that he should simply say “farewell” to the “immature fanatics” who scorn music and poetry.” (from Robert Kaplan’s “The Ends of the Earth”, pp 143-144).

The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists demand respect by terrorizing people; Rumi commands respect through his espousal of universal values, and his spiritual vision.

The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists attempt to impose the uniformity of sharia
through jihad: Rumi celebrates diversity.

The Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists attempt to instill fear in all: Rumi teaches
universal love and understanding.

The Islam of the Jihadists and Islamic Fundamentalists is incompatible with the modern world; the Islam of Rumi is just what the modern world needs.

Far from being an Evil Empire, an Islamic Empire based on the Islam of Rumi will be a blessing for the world, and will be welcomed by one and all.

The Islam of Rumi is truly a “Religion of Peace.”

Today, more than ever, the world needs Rumi. The Islam of Rumi ought to be taught in mosques, and madrassas throughout the world. This will usher in the long overdue Islamic Reformation. This alone can avert the “Clash of Civilizations” predicted by Samuel Huntington.

Don’t hold your breath on an apology from Muslims.

Maybe Hindus should apologize for exterminating Buddhism in the Subcontinent and the Aryans for destroying the Dravadians. Also Hindus should apologize for the 330 million deaths mentioned in the Mahabharta and the Korya Panda wars also.

Your information on Pakistan is incorrect.

Tokenism does not mean “good treatment”. See articles on Indian Muslims on this site.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/06/20/delhi-darbar-indias-hollow-secularism-genocide/

Population of Hindus has also grown since 1948. Nawabshah is pretty much a Hindu majority city.

The last Chief Justice of Pakistan was a Hindu.

http://rupeenews.com/2008/07/04/oh-india-why-this-global-mischief/

Hindus and Indian were in power in the inital days of bangladesh…what did they try to do…merge bangladesh back into India. In 1974 the Bengali patriots killed the Indian agent and threw out the agents working for Rakhi Bahni. Indians in Sikkim merged Sikkim back into India. Indians working in Nepal tried that in Nepal also and in Bhutan…and are trying to take over Sril Lanka and Maldives.

So it is impossible to trust these guys in all these countries some Hindu, some Muslim…

Now you know what RAW is doing.

You say Hindus were accorded the same rights as Jews and Christians — as if that means they were treated well. Under Islam, Jews and Christians are also Kafirs and mistreated.
You say “there is only one Islam.” Rumi welcomes idolaters. The Koran (Chapter 9 verse 5) calls on Muslims to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them”.
To say that Rumi and the Koran teach the same Islam is “taqiyya” — the Islamic art of deceiving Kaffirs.

Does Rumi support Sharia Law and the Jihad against Kafirs? Please cite the references where Rumi supports Sharia Law and Jihad against Kaffirs. Then I will agree that there is only one Islam.

When Hitler Became Abu Ali

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/hitler_abu.html

Note that this was before Israel was formed.

While I respect Rumi, I cannot support Sufi like Al-Ghazali. One has to be careful about Sufis. This is what Al-Ghazali says:
*************************************************

Al Ghazali, perhaps the greatest Muslim scholar and a Sufi wrote:

“One must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a
year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are
in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set
fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab
[People
of The Book - primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage
is [automatically] revoked.One may cut down their trees…One must
destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they
decide…they may steal as much food as they need…

HITLER:

I believe your point was on Abu Ali..this has nothing to do with Abu Ali.

This is the best you could come up with…a couple of “out of context” sentences from Lebanese papers. The idiot Julian doesn’t even know that the Baath was Christian…this on a site of Christians for Jews.

How silly! She doesn’t know that Lebanon is mostly Christian also.

Muslims fought along with Jews in Africa and defeated hilter (see article of Robert Fisk also posted on this site). The Tartarts, Chechniyanas and Bosnians cut Hitler’s supply lines. Indian Muslim fought the Naziz alsong with Hindus sent to the defense of the Empire by Gandhi (self appointed Recruiter in Chief of the Empire–Source: Rahul Gandhi’s book “Mohandas”)

“One of the misperceptions is that Islam is a religion of violence. But Islam is not the only religion that teaches that war is sometimes necessary and justified. Other religions also openly discuss war. In the Old Testament, there is mention of righteous anger and God tells Jews to wage war against the Canaanites. The Catholic church had St. Augustine of Hippo, who initiated the theory of the “Just War” in the fourth century, and Hinduism’s great Song of the God, the Bhagavad Gita, is about duties that include making war when it is necessary. “

Islam does address the reasons for wars. It is permissible to fight in the defence of one’s country, one’s religious community or injustices against the vulnerable. This permission to fight is always tempered with many limitations, along with the message that to forgive or desist is better.

As there were several battles between the fledgling community of Muslims and the tribes around Mecca and Medina, there are passages in the Qur’an about fighting and battles.

The directions are clear about the right to defend oneself but that to go out looking for fights is not allowed.

“Fight in God’s cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression, for God does not love aggressors … fight against them until there is no more oppression.”

And again.

“Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged … those who have been driven from their homelands … if God had not enabled people to defend themselves against one another, all monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques – in all of which God’s name is abundantly extolled – would surely have been destroyed.”

As for those who died in battle the Qur’an states: “Do not think of those who have been slain in God’s cause as dead. Nay, they are alive! With their Sustainer have they their sustenance … no fear need they have nor shall they grieve … “

Please note that Rupee News is a US based newspaper.

The mentality of those who support the Shivaji shows in these posts. That was a purpose of the orignal post. The bigots came like flies to honey and posted bigoted comments about Islam, Pakistan and all sorts of subjects–all to protect Shivaji.

See this commentator call Mughals “outsiders”.

On Pakistan–here is the stadnard response # 786 already posted under the Pakistan tab:

http://rupeenews.com/2008/04/26/india-is-as-much-a-country-as-the-equator-winston-churchill/

Also see

http://rupeenews.com/2007/11/27/here-we-go-again-another-indian-prophecy-of-doom-the-first-one-came-in-1947/

QED

Why you deleted my posts??
Donot you have courage to keep those?? :-))))))

The question is..did Lord Buddha want to be worshipped?

Buddha was not Hindu–Suddharta actually rejected Hindusism in all its forms.

Some Hindus worship Buddha, but Buddhists in China, Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Korea, Sri Lanka and Tibet are not Hindus—neither do they worship any Hindu Gods. The Buddhists are not HIndu.

By destroying Buddhism in the land of its birth, some Hindus tried to incorporate Buddhism into Hindusism. It has not worked.(see article why did Buddhism disappear? on this site)

Sikhs were advised to marry one son to Hindus and one to Muslims. Muslims did not want to marry a Sikh so it was left out to dry.

It is very strange that you say Sikhism and Buddhism is the same. THe Koreans would disagree with you

Vacuity of ideas forces people to make personal attacks on “Majid Khan”.

Credibility is shown by using real names and read ids to make comments.

“Martha”, your comments should be on the content of the material persented.

What does the subject at hand have to do with the price of rice in China? We are not discussing the destruction of Buddhism in South Asia by the Brahamanism in this article.(http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/03/why-did-buddhism-disappear-from-the-south-asian-subcontinent-summary-of-brahmin-atrocities-that-destroyed-buddhism-in-the-subcontinent/) Not sure what the Taliban had to do with Shivaji’s statue?

Dear Mr. Akhbar Navees, you better check out your history knowledge first. Afzal Khan was not a from Mughal empire as you stated in your article; but was from Adilshahi kingdom. This fact raises question on credibility of your article. Perhaps the whole articles is based on false information. Please buy some good history book, read it (its important) and then attempt to write anything.

Muslims are like jungle dogs. Alone a dog will be wag tail& beg but when they are in majority they bark and bite.
(Stalin,hitler, daits, women, naxalite) My dear “Editor”when you will stop chanting and talking rhetoric in deep sleep. Do you also walk in sleep ?
Saudi arab is not pakistan’s or Akhbar Navees’s estate
My dear “Editor”., Shivaji was real Kalki Avatar of india who knew how to tackle muslims of all kinds. He came , he saw and he won.
He gave dimension to hinduism like never before
He is highly revered in India and hated by people like you.
We are sorry for you

[...]…you suck big time…..be thankful to to land where you are staying….if you would been in some other country by now you would have vanished from the face of earth…..bloody hypocrite !! Shivaji was native of this place and you muslims were invaders ….. he fought against invaders to protect natives…..he was tru nationalist and patriot !!

Editor’s Note: Law Enforcement authorities should not the physical threat of violence against the Editor’s of Rupee News. This threat will be sent to the FBI and your ISP provider NIB (National Internet Backbone), in Ahmadabad, Gujarat

Raj posing as Viswanthe

This article is about Shivaji–we have written a very fair and balanced article which clearly states that both Hindus and Muslims were part of both armies–Shivaji’s and Aurenzeb and his proxy armies.

We simply state that Shivaji was resisting the government in Hindustan with violent means. His rebellion waged against the Central Authority would be labeled as Terrorism.

If he is not a terrorist, then there are no terrorists in Bharat–all of them are resisting the rule of law with bloody and illegal means.

The fact is that Shivaji was a terrorist. He killed a peace emissary with a dagger hidden in his hand–an abominable act of murder of the ambassador. Shivaji should have been unarmed like the Ambassador.

Rawal

Shivaji was a terrorist. He was fighting the Central authority. He fought a asymmetric guerrilla warfare which Delhi today brands as terrorism.

Viraj:

In fact–if you had taken the trouble to READ the article you would have seen that we presented a fair picture of Shivaji and decried the binary approach to history based on the writings of various Bharati authors.

Hmm….What an insightful article!! Loved it! Didn’t know history with such dimensions….and depth! Accept my congratulations, and heartfelt thank for enlightening us.

btw..you forgot to mention a few things in this article in continuity and in beginning…like

1. How the entire world was formed of a single cookie…kept in a milk jar…!

2. Cars are not made of steel, but dew drops.

3. Colombo is capital of USA, and UK combined.

4. Headquarter of UNO is in Islamabad.

5. Nile flows through garrison city of Rawalpindi.

6. Mount Colorado is in Lahore.

7. Hindus are actually Muslim converts, and so are Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Sikhs etc etc

8. China is at Pakistan’s mercy for its bread and butter.

9. Japan and Germany are a part of Pakistan.

10. And whiskey is made from curd, and ghee!

11. And water from Rum!

Cheers….let me sit and have kharore with rum!

hahahahaha …… what a befitting reply.

Cheers.

12.Pakistan was not created out of bloodbath but out of love.All Hindus and Muslims marched in a single lines in most orderly fashion to their respective homelands. 13.The authors of Freedom at Midnight are liars.Jinnah was a pious man who did his namaz regularly,never touched pork,wore self spun swadeshi cloth,and never made passes at Lady Mountbatten.14.The Mohajirs were welcomed with love and affection and today they live peacefully with fellow Pakistanis.They love the name Mohajir.15.Sunni and Shiahs loved each other ever after.They never blow each other s mosques.16.Ahmadiyahs were welcomed as a valuable member of Muslims.17.Pakistan defeated India and liberated Bangladesh.18.Pakistan s closest ally Saudi begged for Pakistan s permission before recognizing Bangladesh and another close ally US,actually attacked India with the deployed USS Washington.19.Pakistan got the UK expelled from the Commonwealth at least 3 or 4 times.20.Pakistan is truly democratic nation.No military coup ever takes place unlike neighbouring India,who holds a world record for military coups.21.Civilian govt and military of Pakistan love each other and never try to kill each other.Shariff was just joking when he tried to prevent Parvez s plane from landing.Khan did not hang Ali Bhutto and Benazir is not murdered.22.Pakistan gives regular aid to the US and in exchange Pakistan allows US drones to drop gift hampers on Pakistanis.23.Pakistan keeps China under its thumb.China ceded territories to Pakistan.24.Pakistan have sent mission to outer space and the Moon and found water and other minerals.25.The water of the Indus,where India is named by the Greeks,are managed well and never dry up.26.When the Indus did overflow,Pakistan s democratically elected leaders stayed put and helped its people.27.All world powers went to Islamabad and condemned Delhi for terrorism.28.Karachi like before independance is a peaceful city.29.Nermen Sheikh was lying in his book Slums Society and Shelter and so did many other authors when they say that Pakistani cities are overflowing with slums that reflects govt failure.30.Goldman Sachs, Standard Poors,Moodys,and many other international organizations are all lying when they said India will be one of the economic superpower in the world by 2050.31.Swat valley is under full Pakistan control.The Pakistani forces just went there for vacation just like they entered Lal Masjid for prayers.32.The Talibans and residents of FATA,Balochistan all acknowledge Pakistan s sovereignity.33.Majority of Kashmiris want to join Pakistan. And the list continues…

Rajesh,

But we have reclaimed our land, we are masters of our own destiny we have inhrited the Indus as the legitimate heirs. We are the progeny and inheritors of the great Mughal Empire,

We sacrificed for our land and we will do so again – time and time again. There is nothing your kind can ever do to colonise our nation as you are not your European masters who handed you occupied, colonised sovereign nations under the title India. Worry about the rest of your India do not worry about us – you inherited the rich British Empire in this region called India we reclaimed our nation, named it Pakistan but began with nothing. Yet the difference between your nation and our nation is not light years, we have created our nations from the grass roots. Compare your condition to that of the Chinese – we have done well and will continue to do well.

We will glady spill our blood to protect our Pak Sar Zameen from the vile designs of those who seek to colonise it again.
We are Muslims, our faith , culture and language has influenced the world over while your kind continue to live off a borrowed history, borrowed nation and live in the mythologies of your farcical legends.

When India becomes the next “economic power” I will happily eat humble pie. The reality is your old masters need their old brown sahibs to stop unity amongst Muslims in this and the wider region because this is a greater threat on their way of life. This threat that the Muslim lands will be in control of their own resources and destinies once again. A greater threat is that muslim nations will create a quasi Islamic union / Khilafah and create a united defence form, become integrated via road and rail links and will render western economies and their influence in resource rich lands powerless.
India will always be their proxy and they care not that it will implode and burst back into little sovreign nations. It is in their favour that India is supported to become an economic power because if they and along with India do not interfere with Pakistans growth it will rightfully succeed and take up its rightful place as the legacy of the Mughal Empire (Mughalistan) and the real legitimate heir to the Indus Valley Civilisation. Like our yester years we have the ability to become rich, strong and influential. Our history is real, recorded and yours is made up and your legitimacy is questionable.

If in my lifetime if India becomes a economic power I will eat humble pie but it will not and I am 100% confident it is you who will be ummming and hmming. The bubble has already burst, their are little sound bites in the media promoting a Shining India as of recent. The Neocons have gone and thus any agenda to dismember Pakistan and hegemonise this region through their proxy India has gone with them.

The inflated ego of many Indians will be going pop! pop! pop! 5 years from now. Rajesh your kind were jubilant that Pakistan will be divided only 2 years ago and many like me and rupee news were telling your kind this is not the case and is part of the Grand Game. A game that India even under an American umbrella can never win.

We are still here and will be here for a very long time but here is my 2 bobs worth. India as you know it will not be here in the next 50 years – I won’t wish you long life to witness this but should you be around remember me.

This verbal tennis you play can go on forever but it has always been game set match to Rupee News.

Did Prophet Muhammad not say “War is deceit?”

So Shivaji was actually following Prophet Muhammad’s “sunnah”.

How can you, as a Muslim, criticise that ?

Aurangzeb destroyed Hindu temples. Shivaji never destroyed Muslim places of worship. They were poles apart.

I think you too have rightly concluded that Islam cannot be reformed.

Wrong. India desires a breakup of Pakistan. Upon a breakup, it fantasizes annexing and ‘reclaiming’ Lahore, the punjab and sindh. She would now have the ‘holy’ Indus river (the only crystal clean river in all of south asia) and turn it into a gutter like the rivers of india. This would leaving KP and Baluchistan as buffer states in India’s sphere of influence and a link to central asia.

It is not that you don’t want this territory, it is that you cannot have it without walking over our collective dead bodies.

Have you lived in Saudia Arabia –
Our Arab brethren are very tolerant and respectful.

Iran is equally tolerant and protects all minorities as does Pakistan – more so than the charade of secularism and democracy known as India.

SARVARKER’s CONVERSION to HINDUTVA.
His 1909 book, ( proscribed by British) published in Holland entitled “The indian war of independence, 1857″ had lauded Bahadur shah as great freedom fighter. He had depicted hundus/muslim as same ” sons of soil “-one nation and British to be thrown out; British banned his book– becuase of inspired hindu muslim cooperation; Remember, 6 yrs later they brought in Gandhi to tame a extremist congrss amd muslim league that had signed the ” lucknow pact”. Sarvarkers perhaps got bribed intio Hindu Mahasabha of 1921 ? by british.
I got this from the Hindu of 5/10/2005, an article by Subramanyam swami.
I will love to see the book if you ever find it; Be happy to fax the article if needed.

The heroics of shivaji is as fictitious as mickey mouse. he was a dacoit, a merc, a terrorist.

he was also a coward invitin Afzal Khan to discuss peace and stabbing him in the back as he embraced him in typical backstabbing cowardly Hindu style.

Had it not been for this single act of treachery and deceit as we see it and rightly so contrary to the Hindu account then the outcome would have been different.

Shivaji was hardly a hero but one can see the Hindu perspective clutching on straws to provide their adherents with positive role models.

Great one your right,

so babur and durrani were also dacoit and bandits

Dear Akbar Navee,
As you shown as great intellectual,
just one question for you. In 1947, muslim population in India is just 10%.Now it is increased to 13%.but, where as hindu population in pakistan is nearly 15% in 1947. now , it reduced to just 1%.
what’s the reason.

when marathas and sikhs dominated indian sub continent(India,pakistan and Bangaldesh) from 1700 to 1820. But,we cannot hear any looting, destrction of other relgious sites, raping, mass killing.

But moghul donminated from 1600 to 1700 in Indian sub-continent.we heard lot of stories . why? just think and tell.

The Sivaji the Hindus portray does not exist fictitious the real Siva Ji is a coward.

The one thing that you guys are constantly talking about is the Afzal Khan incident. Afzal Khan, who served the Adilshahi court had in fact almost captured Aurangzeb when he was appointed as the Subhedar of the Deccan but had to release him as the Adilshah intervened, fearful of Shahjehans anger. Afzal Khan had no choice over here. If the Adilshahi was as you claim part of the Mughal empire, why did Aurangzeb attack Bijapur and capture it in 1686? In fact, the Adishahi which at first opposed Maharaj, later was content to be a tribute to him and keep peace at all costs. Maharaj was of the opinion that the powers of the south, the Marathas, Adilshahi and the Kutubshahi should come together against the Mughals. The Kutubshah too paid a tribute to Maharaj and had agreed to provide his army whenever needed.
Back to Afzal Khan, he had called a king from south India for the purpose of negotiations and betrayed and killed him. He also killed Maharaj’s elder brother Sambhaji. Afzal Khan promised Sambhaji help during a siege they were conducting together, but at the last moment he didn’t send his promised force, as a result of which Sambhaji was killed by the opposing forces.
So Afzal Khan had shown that he could not be trusted. Maharaj knew the same. And even if Afzal Khan had was ready for peaceful negotiations, Maharaj would’ve killed him the Soanyway.
The kings duty is to protect his subjects. Keeping Afzal Khan alive, who had knocked down temples(not showing respect for other religions) and harassed the subjects of Maharaj to lure him on plain battlefields was not at all Maharaj’s mind. He went for the meeting with the intention of killing Afzal Khan.
As for the so called ‘cowardly’ guerrilla warfare, the North Vietnamese used it with against USA and the mujahids used it against the Soviet Union. Without these tactics, the Mujahids wouldn’t have survived.

I agree his exploits were not of a courageous man but a adroit, bandit, thug, mercenary, power hungry and in reality never the courageous warrior as portrayed.
If he is the symbol of Shiv Sena it shows how muddied their ideology is.

I agree on Akhbar his significance was to allow the British to gain foot hold in South Asia, why they The British helped in elevating his real status of an ins8gnif8can’t little rat, a vermin, terrorist, and a bum glory hungry opportunist. Siva a feeble coward who stabbed a man twice his size and a proven warrior in that era.

Shivaji was a robber..and as indian love robbers and rapist she has the duty to worship robber and bandit like Shivaji..thats why a tall shivaji statue is going to be build.

What is the point of trying to derive conclusions from 400 yr old incidents, if they do not in any way change the horrible situation which engulfs the entire subcontinent at present? Whether it be India or Pakistan, the citizens of both countries are indeed slaves to Politicians, Industrialists and Landlords.
The struggle for freedom from the Colonialists was complicated, full of intrigue and obviously manipulated by the British. The people of the subcontinent had never experienced democracy, and never really understood the power of what it could bring. The founding fathers, whether it be Jinnah or Gandhi, could have never foreseen the opportunities which democracy has created.
The Two-Nation Theory accords too much importance to the size of the Hindu population. The simple fact is, there were never that many Hindus to begin with. 70% of India does not consider themselves to be a part of the Hindu religion as espoused by the Upper Castes. The Upper Castes do not add up to more than 300 million. The rest of India is made up of Lower Castes, Dalits, Sunni, Shia, Sikh, Christian, Parsi, Buddhist, etc etc. If India was a majority Hindu country, the BJP woud have been ruling it since 1947. But they hardly ruled for 5 yrs (1999-2004), and have no chance of ever ruling again. That just proves, that democracy, however imperfect it might be, has in fact given representation to all the myriad sections of society. In 1990, no one in their right minds would have imagined that the most populous state of Uttar Pradesh would have Dalit and Yadav Chief Ministers ruling it.
So, the question arises: What do Muslims have to fear? Had they been a united 400 million strong, instead of the partition-truncated 150 million at present, they would have had their own political power to sit across the table from Hindus, Yadavs (and other lower castes), Dalits, Sikhs Christians, etc.. and relive the glory of the Mughal Empire, albeit in a democracy instead of a totalitarian monarchy.
Unless you are totally invested in the idea of a Totalitarian Monarchy, why would you fear power via an actual democracy?