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India has been bragging about being a political superpower and a military might. A brief look will abundantly expose the facade of the Indian economy; which will collapse at the first signs of uncertainty or instability.
- In 2008, its external debts increased to around $221 billion.
- In 2007, Indian exports stood around $145 billion, while imports were around $217 billion; a deficit of $72 billion in a single year.
- India’s trade deficit was $117.3 billion in 2009/10, down from $118.7 billion in 2008/09. In 2010 the deficit has mushroomed beyond reasonable levels. Reuters survey in April forecast the gap would widen to $132.70 billion in 2010/11 and $154.50 billion in 2011/12 (http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-49834320100702)
- Bharat is one of the largest recipient of foreign aid in the world. The UKs biggest recipient of British aid is Bharat. The UK donates 500 million Pound Sterling to Bharat every year. Many other countries also give foreign aid to Bharat. Bhart‘s biggest donor is Japan.
- India currently accounts for 1.5% of World trade as of 2007. Bharat’s trade imbalance with the US for 2010 is -7,980.5 million or around 8 billion USD.
Bharat is one of the biggest debtor nations on the planet with public and private debt estimated between $250 billion to $3 Trillion.
- India fails to distribute wealth to poor: UN Report (pakistanledger.com)
- India falls to 88th spot on World Prosperity Index (rupeenews.com)
- India behind Pakistan and Bangladesh, on human development indices: UN Report (rupeenews.com)
2010 numbers: Finance minister Pranab Mukherjee today presented a budget with a fiscal deficit of 5.5% of the gross domestic product (GDP).
He pegged the total expenditure at Rs11.09 lakh crore while the total tax and non-tax revenue was estimated at Rs6.82 lakh crore for the year 2010-11. The deficit is much lower than the budgeted estimate for the current fiscal (6.8%), which, however, has been revised to 6.9%.
Bharat has never been a net exporter like China which has colossal surpluses with almost every country of the world.
Its factory output account for 27.6% of the GDP and employs 17% of the total workforce. Rest of the workforce is largely dedicated to the agriculture sector. According to a 2008 World Bank report, 75.6% Indians live on less than $2 per day. It suffers from higher rates of malnutrition than Sub-Saharan Africa. Over 70% of its population is either illiterate or educated below the primary level. Indian tourist industry is 1/6 of Las Vegas. Recently, Standard & Poor’s announced, India risks a downgrade from BBB-minus rating to the lowest investment-grade rating. Clearly, Indians are hardly in a financial shape to even contemplate on waging a war.
Indian service industry accounts for over 55% of its GDP. Bangalore is called the Silicon Valley of India. A large number of Information Technology companies are located in the city. It is the largest contributor of India’s $33 billion IT exports (2007), . The Statesman. A Gill. Dec. 30th, 2008. It is at $50 billion (2010) in 2010 but an exponential growth faces Anti-Outsourcing laws in the US and Europe.
- Hunger in India alarming! India at bottom on Hunger Index in South Asia
- How long to extripate penury from india? 300 years!
- India’s budget– fit for a superpower
Around six out of 10 Indians live in the countryside, where abject poverty is widespread. 34.7 % of the Indian population lives with an income below $ 1 a day and 79.9 % below $ 2 a day. According to the India’s planning commission report 26.1 % of the population live below the poverty line. [World Bank's poverty line of $1 a day, but the Indian poverty line of Rs 360 a month, or 30 cents a day]
The Current Account Balance of India
“A major area of vulnerability for us is the high consolidated public-debt to GDP ratio of over 70 percent … (and) consolidated fiscal deficit,” says the Governor of Reserve Bank of India (RBI), Mr. Yaga Venugopal Reddy.
According to CIA world fact book, the Current account balance of India is -10,360,000,000 (minus) while China is the wealthiest country in the world with $ 249,900,000,000 (Plus). India is listed as 152 and China as no.1 [CIA: The world fact book].Amnesty International (AI) 2008 report on issues within India (http://rupeenews.com/2008/05/29/amnesty-int-2008-report-excoriates-horrid-india)
Human Development vs GDP growth
The Human Development Report for 2007-08 released by the UNDP ranked India 128 out of 177 countries, working it out through measures of life expectancy, education and income. Malaysia ranked 63 and listed at under High Human Development category. The report found that India’s GDP per capita (purchasing power parity) is $3,452, far below Malaysia’s $10,882. China listed as 81. Read the statistics from UNDP website.
- Dalits: Caste discrimination. Poverty stricken and destitute
- India: More than 75% live below Sub Saharan poverty line
- India: 3500-yrs of massacres of Dalit-Sudra Blacks by Arya-Brahmins
- Eat Rats:Indian officials ask starving Indians to eat rodents (BBC)
- Indian girl Infanticide-Female Foeticide: 1 million girls killed before or after birth per year
- Khumb Mela India: 60 million Filthy Naked Indian sadus
Population:
According to the Indian census of 2001, the total population was 1.028 billion. Hindus numbered 827 million or 80.5 %. About 25 per cent (24 million) of those Hindus are belonging to Scheduled Castes and Tribes. About 40 per cent (400 million) are “Other Backward Castes”.
15 per cent Hindu upper castes inherited majority of India’s civil service, economy and active politics from British colonial masters. And thus the caste system virtually leaves lower caste Hindus in to an oppressed majority in India’s power structure. The 2004 World Development Report mentions that more than 25% of India’s primary school teachers and 43% of primary health care workers are absent on any given day!
Chilled Urine drinking hot in India. From Gandhi to PM Desai. 
Living conditions of Indians
89 percent of rural households do not own telephones; 52 percent do not have any domestic power connection. There are daily power cuts even in the nation’s capital. The average brownout in India is three hours per day during non-monsoon months, 17 hours daily during the monsoon. The average village is 2 kilometers away from an all-weather road, and 20 percent of rural habitations have partial or no access to a safe drinking-water supply. [Tarun Khanna, Yale Center for the Study of Globalization]
Around 60 per cent people are not having access to financial institutions in India. This figure is less than 15 per cent in developed countries. (NABARD) According to the National Family Health Survey data (2005-06), only 45 per cent of households in the country had access to improved sanitation.
Education
India has over 35 per cent of the world’s total illiterate population. [UNESCO Education for All Report 2008] Only 66 per cent people are literate in India (76 per cent men and 54 per cent women)
About 40 million primary school-age children in India are not in school. More than 92 % children cannot progress beyond secondary school. According to reports, 35 per cent schools don’t have infrastructure such as blackboards and furniture. And close to 90 per cent have no functional toilets. Half of India’s schools still have leaking roofs or no water supply.
Japan has 4,000 universities for its 127 million people and the US has 3,650 universities for its 301 million, India has only 348 universities for its 1.2 billion people. In the prestigious Academic Ranking of World Universities by Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong, only two Indian Universities are included. Even those two IITs in India found only a lower slot (203-304) in 2007 report. Although Indian universities churn out three million graduates a year, only 15% of them are suitable employees for blue-chip companies. Only 1 million among them are IT professionals.
Why did Buddhism disappear from South Asia? 
Health
India has the single highest share of neonatal deaths in the world, 2.1 million.107,000 Leprosy patients live in India. 15.3 % of the population do not survive to the age of forty. Serpent attacks kill as many as 50,000 Indians while the cobra occupies a hallowed place in the Hindu religion. Heart disease, strokes and diabetes cost India an estimated $9 billion in lost productivity in 2005. The losses could grow to a staggering $200 billion over the next 10 years if corrective action is not taken quickly, says a study by the New Delhi-based Indian Council for Research on International Economic Relations.There are only 585 rural hospitals compared to 985 urban hospitals in the country. Out of the 6,39,729 doctors registered in India, only 67,576 are in the public sector and the rest either in private sectors or abroad, pointing towards the severity of the problem.Tuberculosis (TB) is a major public health problem in India. India accounts for one-fifth of the global TB incident cases. Each year about 1.8 million people in India develop TB, of which 0.8 million are infectious cases. It is estimated that annually around 330,000 Indians die due to TB. [WHO India]Economy under the siege of Elite HindusMap of India showing the highest concentration of Brahmins and Hindu extremists known as Hinduvta”]
India Infanticide map: Killing 10 million baby girls before and right after brith
- Amnesty International (AI) 2008 report on issues within India (http://rupeenews.com/2008/05/29/amnesty-int-2008-report-excoriates-horrid-india)India today allocates lower than one per cent gross domestic product (GDP) to health. According to United Nations calculations, India’s spending on public health as a share of GDP is the 18th lowest in the world. 150 million Indians are blind. 2.13 per cent of the total population (21.9 million) live with disabilities in India. Yet, only 34 per cent of the disabled are employed [Census 2001
In India, wealth of 36 families amounts to $ 191 billion, which is one-fourth of India's GDP. In other words, 35 elite Hindu families own quarter of India's GDP by leaving 85 % ordinary Hindus as poor!
The dominant group of Hindu nationalists come from the three upper castes ( Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas ) that constitute only 10 per cent of the total Indian population. But, they claim perhaps 80 % of the jobs in the new economy, in sectors such as software, biotechnology, and hotel management.
Extremist Hindus revere Hitler and use the Swastika as the Indian flag
Corruption
According to TI, 25 % of Indians paid bribe to obtain a service. 68 % believe that governmental efforts to stop the corruption as ineffective. More than 90 % consider police and political parties as the worst corrupt institutions. 90 % of Indians believe that corruption will increase within the next 3 years. "Corruption is a large tax on Indian growth, It delays execution, raises costs and destroys the moral fiber." says Prof. Rama Murthi. Transparency International estimates that Indian truckers pay something in the neighborhood of $5 billion annually in bribes to keep freight flowing. According to Rahul Gandhi, only 5 per cent of development funds reached their intended recipients due to hierarchical corruption in the country! [Financial Times] Discrimination against Dalits
- 250 million Dalits in India eek out a living in subhuman conditions
Crime against Dalits occur every 20 minutes in India. Every day 3 Dalit women are raped, 2 Dalits are murdered and 2 Dalit houses are burnt down! These figures represent only a fraction of actual incidents since many Dalits do not register cases for fear of retaliation by the police and upper-caste Hindu individuals. Official figures show that there are still 0.343 million manual scavengers in India from Dalit community. More than 165 million Dalits in India are simply abused by their Hindu upper castes for their birth! . [HRW Report2007]
Human Rights
When it comes to Human Rights issues in India, it is not ratified the UN Convention against Torture, its citizens do not have the opportunity to find recourse in remedies that are available under international law. The victims are trapped with the local Hindu caste system, which in every aspect militates against their rights.India has a very poor record of protecting the privacy of its citizens, according to the latest report from Privacy International (PI). India scored 1.9 points, which makes it an ‘extensive surveillance society’. A score between 4.1 and 5.0 (the highest score) would mean a country “consistently upholds human rights standards”. PI is a watchdog on surveillance and privacy invasions by governments and corporations. [Surveillance Report 2007]
The police in India continue to remain militaristic in design and suppressive in practice. The police officials are accused of favoritism, being discourteous to the public, and ignoring the complaints of the poor. Moreover they are seen as violators of the law, open-handedly accepting bribes and fabricating various elements of investigations. Many victims conclude that a justice system accessible to the poor of the land does not exist at all.
Minorities
About 20 %, or 200 million, are religious minorities. Muslims constitutes 138 million or 13.4 5, Christians 24 million or 2.3 %, Sikhs 19 million or 2 %, Buddhists 8 million or 0.8 % and Jains 4 million or 0.4 %. “Others” numbered 6.6 million or 0.6 %. According to Mr. Tahir Mahmood, an Indian Muslim journalist, “The 2.3 % Christians in the Indian population cater to 20 % of all primary education in India, 10 % of all the literacy and community health care, 25 % of all existing care of destitute and orphans, 30 % of all the handicapped, lepers and AIDS patients etc”.
Discrimination against Minority Muslims
GENOCIDE AGAINST MUSLIMS: The charred bodies of Muslim after the Hindus attacked, murdered and burned them in Gujarat in 2002. The fate of Mulsims in India
Recently, Justice Rajinder Sachar Committee report admitted that 138 Million Muslims across India are severely under-represented in government employment, including Public Sector Units. Ironically, West Bengal, a communist ruled state reported 0 (zero) percent of Muslims in higher positions in its PSUs! It has found that the share of Muslims in government jobs and in the lower judiciary in any state simply does not come anywhere close to their population share. The only place where Muslims can claim a share in proportion to their population is in prison! (Muslims convicts in India is 19.1%, while the number of under trials is 22.5%, which exceed their population ratio) . A note sent on January 9 by the army to the defence ministry in 2004 says that only 29,093 Muslims among a total of 1.1 million personnel – a ratio of 2.6 %, which compares poorly with the Muslims’ 13.8 % share in the Indian population. Officially, Indian Army don’t allow head count based on religion.
The genocide of Muslims in Kashmir; Kashmiris want to join Pakistan
A Muslim child attends school for three years and four months, compared to the national average of four years. Less than two percent of the students at the elite Indian Institutes of Technology comprise of the Muslim community. According to the National Knowledge Commission member Jayathi Ghosh, ‘there is a need to re-orient official strategies for ensuring better access of Muslim children to schooling outside the madrasas which cater to only four per cent of children from the community.’
Courtsey: Dalitnation.wordpress.com and Dalit Network
Singh: Achieving Peace in South Asia: Can he overcome…?
- US-Indian 123 nuclear deal puts planet at risk By Jimmy Carter
- India’s Securithy concerns: Naxalites, Kashmir, 7 Sisters & Communalism
- India: More than 75% live below Sub Saharan poverty line
- Manufacturing consent-Planned partition of Jammu & Kashmir
- Eat Rats:Indian officials ask starving Indians to eat rodents (BBC)
- Black Day-Aug 15th: Kashmiris hoist Pakistani flags in Srinagar. Burn Indian flags
- Indian Occupied Kashmiris want Dogra state for Jammu Hindus
- Delhi TV fails in Indian Occupied Kashmir: Pakistani TV popular
- Sino-Pakistan nexus define’s China’s influence on South Asia
- Indian illegal interception of Internationl Internet traffic
- Indian Top Secret Kargil Tapes: The impact of releasing them
- Resisting Indian hegemony by all neighbors:-Afghan cauldron
- Paper Tigers: Indian tenuous “hold” on Kashmir is slipping fast
- Advani’s nationwide Hindu campaign against Occupied Kashmiris & Muslims
- Nepal: Indian Intrigues to demolish & absorb the country
Amnesty International (AI) 2008 report on issues within India (http://rupeenews.com/2008/05/29/amnesty-int-2008-report-excoriates-horrid-india)
THE FARCE OF DEMOCRACY:
- …Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, .. the country also has three Nigerias with
- … that there are still close to 800 million people in India who live on less than $2 a day (Fareed Zakaria)
- “What you see issue after issue, state after state is that powerful [special interest groups] … landed interests have been able to capture the political system and extract government benefits for themselves [by way of] subsidies, etc,” (Fareed Zakaria)
- “It is a great shame… The large majority of people have somehow slipped though the cracks. So you see that India does worse than Bangladesh, worse than Cuba, worse than Syria, on all these measures. It does worse than many other countries that have lower per capita GDP [gross domestic product] than India has…(Fareed Zakaria)
- one has to ask oneself that if the country does not make significant investments in education and healthcare…(Fareed Zakaria)
- All this sounds very gloomy…(Fareed Zakaria) http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/may/23fareed.htm
APPENDIX A-Fareed Zakaria
Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, believes that while India has several Silicon Valleys within it, the country also has three Nigerias within.
“The Indian private sector is doing extraordinary things and the country is bursting with energy, yet behind all these is the reality,” Zakaria said alluding to the rampant poverty that coexists with affluence. That reality, he said, is that there are still close to 800 million people in India who live on less than $2 a day despite India being a democracy, which is its greatest pride.
His remarks came during a keynote address at the Child Relief and You-United States fundraiser May 5 in the presence of 200-odd guests.
Zakaria said in India, democracy has not allowed the rule of the majority.
“What you see issue after issue, state after state is that powerful minorities, farmers, minority interests and landed interests have been able to capture the political system and extract government benefits for themselves [by way of] subsidies, etc,” he said.
Noting that Indian democracy is wedded to these powerful minorities, he said this is not an unfamiliar concept in democracy — in the US they are called special interests. But he said in India it has proved deadly because people who do not get represented are the ones who are powerless. Little wonder, he said, that at the annual United Nations Human Development Index, India fares very badly.
“It is a great shame for Indian democracy. The large majority of people have somehow slipped though the cracks. So you see that India does worse than Bangladesh, worse than Cuba, worse than Syria, on all these measures. It does worse than many other countries that have lower per capita GDP [gross domestic product] than India has,” Zakaria said.
“It is one of the important things that will make it impossible for India to continue this extraordinary growth and for this growth to trickle down to the masses,” he said. Zakaria said there are all kinds of models of economic policy — from Hong Kong which was totally laissez faire to South Korea which had lots of tariffs and regulations, to Taiwan which was somewhere in the middle, to Singapore which was pro-market but had a huge government presence.
“But there were three factors that were in common in all these East Asian models. First was broad hospitality to markets and trade, investment in education, particularly for the poorer half of the population, and third was the investment in health,” Zakaria said. “Those are, so far, lacking in the Indian case,” he added.
Zakaria said when one looks at India’s great growth story, one has to ask oneself that if the country does not make significant investments in education and healthcare — which is essentially the investment in children that CRY is talking about — will India be able to sustain the growth rate and sustain it in a way that it spreads to the entire country?
“I have talked about India’s systematic and political failings. What we have to do in a sense is to take advantage of the great political strengths that India has — its openness, its democracy, its freedom and its participation at the civic society sector,” he said. “In other words, if India’s strength is the society, not the State, if India’s strength is the micro growth, not the macro growth, if India’s strength is the small entrepreneur and not the technocrat, then we have to leverage that and use that as best as we can,” Zakaria said.
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| RUPEE NEWS | October 8th, 2008 | ???? ??????? | ????? ????? | CyberGandhi | This article was written by CyberGandhi of the Dalit Network. CyberGandhi is a Dalit and an Indian.
“That is where you come in because it means that the only way this problem is going to be solved is if Indian society and the friends of Indian society mobilize and petition the government and get civic society involved, get nonprofits involved… That is the only way to get it solved — a broad, multi-pronged, multi-tier strategy that tries to attack the problem,” Zakaria said amid applause.
He said India is not going to get some “great minister of health or minister of education or minister for children’s affair” who is going to suddenly make all these things happen and therefore there is no point sitting around for a good government. He said the only way it could happen is by pressing the government as well as through a charitable solution. “It has to be bottom up approach and not a top-down approach which means that you can’t wait around and hope and wish. We have to reverse them,” he said.
“All this sounds very gloomy, but I think it is less gloomy and India growth story is not as fragile as it sounds because of the event this evening and because of organizations like CRY. There are all these problems but there are all these solutions and people, who are interested, who are motivated and who want to do something and who are beginning to change the dynamic,” Zakaria said, ending his keynote on an optimistic note. http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/may/23fareed.htm
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freaky:::
“Pakistan was not a nation, before 1947″
Sorry to shatter the paradigm of the 8th grade story books of New Delhi, but the civilization that existed on the banks of the Indus is the Pakistani civilization. Pakistan existed 5000 years ago.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/01/25/the-pakistani-civilization-rebutting-the-indic-civilization/
Thank you for your feedback
I am patron of art and currently sponsering a couple of artist to do oil paintings of people and places in india with “sprituality awakening “as a basic theme. I would like you permission to use some of the images to produce oil painting.
Could you please provide me the name or person I need to contact to get this permission.
Ramesh Malhotra
The rights to the images are worth $500 each. If you are interested let us know and we will not publish our transactional information
Good to see your research,
Though i wonder why u r so obsessed with Sadhu’s and their living styles,you are talking about India’s economy and problems (which i heartedly appreciate) but where does Sadhus come in picture?they do not contribute to economy they are not part of social culture either then why to focus and let un-awared readers make wrong impression of india, Or is it that You just want to show derogatory picture of india’s Sadhu culture
And yea one more thing u r no one to judge whether they are filthy or wotever its their own chosen life style they are free to wear/not wear anything just as much as your are free to write any thing in your article,
Now you can label me as a typical “hindu” (which i am not), But let me make it clear that am just with impartial and broad mind reading your article which is pretty good at some point but pretty fake and loathsome at many places,
Now let me argue with you , may be India is having largest population of poor ppl but why don’t you mention that count is becoming lesser every year too? and geese do you have to put specific “dalit” term here?
Indian Civil Services recruitments are well known for their fair and equality process then why r you quoting that 15% of upper caste are inherited in civil services? Man, if u have to share your thoughts then why share it will such one sided facts?
My question to you, do have any loathe against Upper caste in India? i agree history has lots of cases of injustice and wrong doings by upper castes, but that all is HISTORY, just putting misleading facts together in an article wont prove that racism still is prominent in INDIA, though you will be successful in spreading hatred,
But friend we today are educated and mature enough to not be effected of these things, aren’t we?
Indian society has serious problems i totally agree, and together only we can resolve them, but prime cause of the problem is not at all addressed well in your article
main cause of all our problems are
> lack of education,
> growing population
> corruption,every one is individually corrupted, personal purification is first step towards National excellence.
I may be wrong but am sorry to say your article only provokes lower cast and Muslim’s to grow hatred inside them, it does not provide any solution…..
Thank you for your insightful and extremely valuable feedback. We appreciate the comments. You are right. This article was written by the CyberGandhi of the Dalit Network and your comments will be submitted to them.
There are a lot of articles in the triumphlist Indian press that caters to the tiny minority called the Indian elite who speak Enlogh and actually purchase the newspapers.
Rupee News brings unique articles that are not available in the mainstream media. If we simply provided the “same old, same old’ cookie cutter news, thousands who visit us every day would be disappointed and our readership would stop growing.
Of course we provide thought provoking articles.There was no commentary on Sadhus in this article, but the pictures sure do sure a fair amount of “filth” in the other article posted on this site.
There are two parts of this article. All your points are not addressed. You are right, part three of this article to be published within two weeks will address the solutions.
We did publish an artilce on the speech that we expect from Prime Minister Manmohan SIngh. The world is waiting for that speech that will bring peace to the region and the world
Keep visiting us.
Best Regards
Moin
Namste Moinbhai,
Wow!! its very bad for INDIA whats you think , its not new dear plz provide something new news & Sadhu news are not feel us (Lovely INDIANS) guilty.
can you provide some think about Pakistan progress or any achievement from its freedom. its totally time wasting & bip bip… for you and your country.
Do you have any answer why INDIA has selected as a world power topic?
but i have because we have something (I have no need to explain becoz your country feel it every time and mostly in battle).
so go home and come with latest thoughts regarding INDIA & INDIANS. Try to look in you and your country development.
Hope you will post my comment !!! because you are never know where to go for live & always back to your creater (Of course its INDIA the nest super power, i know your country never expect it but you and your country have no option..smile up buddy ).
With Best Luck for You & Your Country,
Citizen of Next Super Power Country……
Namashkar and thank you for visiting our site and giving us your invaluable feedback.
The article was written by CyberGandhi an Indian who discusses the plight of the Dalits on the Dalit Network and other places.
There are articles on this site crticising the US, Russia, Africa, France, Pakistan and India. Why would India be immune to any critcism? The crticism about any other country in this article is non-pertinent to the what Cyber Gandhi is discussion.
Perhaps that discussion should be on anoter page on this site….and there are more than 2000 articles..
Your question has merit. The discussion is about the impediments that Indians to overcome in order to achieve any status in the world.
We also have a question about the status of India as a world power? The purpose of the article is to ask that question, and generate that discussion …”This is an insiders look at the cavities, the bumps and the hidden facts ”
The 3rd part of the article actually discusses the solutions that can propel India to a status in the world.
Just like your question has merit. Our question has merit also!
Once agian, we thank you for your feedback and look forward to you visiting the site again.
The way you showed your opinion its clearly means that you are uncultured. Also I think your Parents forgot to teach you that before knowing about anybody don’t comments/ write anything.
I am not going to write anything against our history of Partition. Present always shows what we did in Past and whats going to happen in future.
You just see India’s Education, Infrastructure, Communication, Media, Economics Strength, Foreign Investment to India, India’s Market Strength, Information Technology Hubs etc. And also I want to mention that there are so many Singer writers Actor/Actress from Pakistan came to India and performing here and Indians accepted blindly without any communal or any other reason. And all of them comments that this kind of opportunities are not available in Pakistan.
In India Dr. Abul Kalam Azad (Former President), Currently Chief Justice not only this there are lots of example that Muslims are not behind for any communal reason.
History says from birth you people seen India as your enemy. From the beginning you people expenses near about 80% of Country Budget money to purchase modern arms. And also supported Terrorist to do anti social things to other country. And now all of them are out of control. Also Pakistan Administrations failed to control them.
And its clearly shows that the day is very near to destroy the big DREAM of Jinnah’s Pakistan.
And also mentioning that in 1971 the Genocide of 30 Lacks of Bengalees Muslims & Hindus in Bangladesh. Is it show the advancements of any country as a great Nation.
You just think and decide.
Thanks and best regards
Mihir Chandra Datta
This article on India as a World power was written by an Indian–CyberGandhi a Dalit of the Dalit Network. He represents the Dalit point of view and used internationally recognized facts and figures. We will convey your comments to him. If he wants to respond to you he will.
The 3rd part of this series focuses on solutions
Best Regards,
Editor
I really feel bad about this website. You the owner of this website is a sadist and an Armchair critic. Though i agree some facts about India is true. What makes your hatefulness against India so high that you spend most of your life time writing bad about India. In your map you showed Kashmir as part of Pakistan which i couldn’t accept. Kashmir is an independent state during the segregation of former India. India had no wish to annex it until Pakistan forcefully tried to occupy it and the king of Kashmir with no other choice annexed it to India. Pakistan has no rights to Kashmir and history tells the rest. Its not that its a Muslim state so that you could add to your country.
Mr.Moin Ansari I regret for calling you a sadist in my first comment. but all the news about India made me to do so.
In many aspects Dalits are treated so badly in India that to in northern part. but you have a beautiful and peaceful south from where you could admire about India pls do. I have lot of Pakistani Friends in Malaysia and i like them very much. i admire you country for your courage to stand against your big brother India. i proud your ancient and the world’s most old and the best civilization. Look we are brothers and not enemies. our political leaders do a lot to gain their vote by creating problem over the borders. As an Indian representative i apologize for all wrong done by India, and don’t forget Pakistan too did a lot. Pls don’t look India as an Hindu country which is against Muslims. India is a secular country we respect all religions but some radicals are there just ignore them. We give lot of respect to Muslims its true. Our Honorable former president is a Muslim and some former cricket captains are Muslim and we have rich Indian Muslim like Azim Premji. My last request pls don’t hurt Indian feelings by insulting our father of Nation Mahatma Gandhi. better know that he is one who helped you people to get your freedom.At last pls visit India and know the truth about our lovableness and kindness towards others(it includes Muslims).
I saw most of your replies trying to put blame on that dalit writer and pls don’t say that stupid as an Indian any more. If he is an Indian he must try to change the coarse and really write about some reforms that could help India do better. I know that some dalits are really fighting for their rights. pls use Gandhian way to succeed and not violence. the only reason why dalits are still suppressed in India because of their wrong approach. instead of going on big rally shouting and disturbing public life pls follow our father of nation. Still if you feel violence is the only way to get back you rights don’t go to streets and fights with “arrows” pls attack the “bows(politicians)”. Just punish all bloody politicians and get your rights back and we true Indian are always at your back. and one more thing to the owner of the website pls come to India and see how many hospitals treating Pakistani people and hope you know during earthquake in POK India is the one who helped you first.
The Dalits have been discriminated for thousands of years by the upper class Hindus.
Cyber Gandhi is a well respected intellectual in the Dalit community, and as hard as it is for some to comprehend this–he is an untouchable.
Untouchability and discrimination is not run by any politiciansw, it is run by the general population on an every day basis.
The Gandhia way? Hunh?
You mean the guy who perpetuated the cast sytem and vowed to fight to maintian it.
You mean the Gandhian way of racism?
http://rupeenews.com/2008/03/11/south-africa-gandhi-joined-in-the-orgy-of-zulu-slaughter-when-the-bambata-rebellion-broke-out/
My dearest brother Raj: Namashkar and Namaste:
Thank you for your kind sentiments. We want to reciprocate them in any way that you want. Just eleiminate hinduunity.org and sites like that. Also see this article published in an esteemed Indian newspaper
(http://rupeenews.com/2008/09/10/delhi-strategy-to-destroy-pakistan-indian-defense-review-%d8%a8%d8%ba%d9%84-%d9%85%db%8c%da%ba-%da%86%da%be%d8%b1%d9%8a-%d9%85%d9%86%db%81-%d9%be%db%81-%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%85-%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%85%db%94/).
Please read part three of this series and we list solutoins for the Subcontinent. We are not partisan warriors. We are journalists and columnsits.
We have publsihed exposes of the first lady of France, PM Gilani, Mr. Zardariu, Mr. Clinton We did nto expose Gandhi, his grandsons did. Not sure why Indian politicians should be exempt.
We did not write about his affiars, Bose did. We did not uncover Gandhi’s acts, Sajorni Naidu did. We simply reproduced it
Best Regards,
Editor
PS: The system is now programmed to delete any insults automatically. Your other comment if it had vulgarity in it got dumped into the trash can automaticlaly. We did not see it.
bro Moin Ansari
Thank you for calling me brother. This is what we Indian expect from all Pakistani. If all of us can live like this then there will be no war in future. Like i said we both India and Pakistan had did so many things wrong, just forget about it. My only request to you is not create anymore enmity between India and Pakistan. Some of your data’s are true and not to great extend. you say you are a journal but my question is why can’t use your writing to create peace between nations rather most of your writing is just creating hatredness towards you and fellow Pakistanis…I asked my pity dalit friend to follow Gandhian way(“ahimsa”) and not the racism what Gandhi had Initiated like you said.
My dearest brother and friend Raj: Namashkar and Namaste: May the blessings of this months be upon you, and your heart find the love and affection that we all want to share. Perhaps with the grace of the almighty you can spread the message of love to all corners of Bharat. We will be with you and be supportive of you.
We have been one of the biggest proponents of interfaith dialogue and want you to join it. I fully agree with you and will try to that in the future. Perhaps you can ask the Indian Defense Review to cancel its current article which says “stability in Pakitan is not in India’s interest”.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/09/21/pakistan-indian-defense-review-schemes-unmasked/
Maybe Dr. Singh can use this speech that we prepared for him:
http://rupeenews.com/2008/08/05/india-as-a-world-power-part-3/
Can you also ask hinduunity.org to join our efforts at AJMA (American Joint Multifiath Asociation). Can you kindly asks India to band Modi, and Adhvani’s hatred.
Kindly read our proposed address for Dr. Singh. Maybe he can use it as a script when he speaks to the UN this month.
May peace be upon you also. Maybe one day we can all sit together and sing Kumbaya…’till that day, maybe you can also do some of things we have requested you to do in all humility….
Best Regards
hi moin,
i think you are day dreamer and a stupid musalmaan
1. Please list me the acheivements of your country.
2. is there any Democracy in your country.
3.i heard every 5 mins a shia will be killed in your country.
4.tell me about the minorities rights in ur country.
“Bhik se manga hua desh tera Pakistan tu bhikari hai. hum hindustan ne bhik diya hai ” so feel the difference dont speak like an idiot you are no where near comparision with us B…..s
The article that you refer to was written by Cyber Gandhi. The word Pakistan does not appear in the article at all.
The article was written by CyberGandhi an Indian who discusses the plight of the Dalits on the Dalit Network and other places.
There are articles on this site crticising the US, Russia, Africa, France, Pakistan and India. Why would India be immune to any critcism? The crticism about any other country in this article is non-pertinent to the what Cyber Gandhi is discussion.
Perhaps that discussion should be on anoter page on this site….and there are more than 2000 articles..
Your bigotry is self evident by your comments. That is why your bigotry has been saved for posterity so that all can see your real feelings for musalmaans.
Standard response 786 to first comment:
http://rupeenews.com/2007/11/27/here-we-go-again-another-indian-prophecy-of-doom-the-first-one-came-in-1947/
Standard response 777 to 2nd comment (see bottom of the page of tab under “Pak” on front page:
http://rupeenews.com/most-popular-articles/
See bottom of this page listed above
We are allowing this post as a courtsy. Any abusive language will not be tolerated on this site, and you will be banned (dosen’t nmatter which fake alias or fake email id you use). If you are banned, none of your material will be published…it will directly to to the transcan without anyone at Rupee News seeing your comments.
The Editor
MR.MOIN
WHY DONT U SHOW THE REAL STATE OF HINDUS IN PAKISTAN AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THE CONDITIONS OF MUSLIMS.
WHY DIDNT U SHOW THE PICS OF HINDUS WHO WERE BURNT ALIVE BY MUSLIMS IN GUJARAT AFTER WHICH THE WHOLE INCIDENT HAPPENED.
AND INDIA IS A COUNTRY WHICH IS WORKING TO REMOVE ITS WEAKNESS AND NOT TRYING TO COUNT OTHERS WEAKNESS WHICH PAKISTAN ALWAYS DOES AND BECAUSE OF THIS PAKISTAN SUFFERS THE TAG OF A FAILED STATE.
AND WHY PAKISTAN IS BOASTING OF ITS MILITARY
INDIA DOESNT BEG FOR FUNDS FROM US AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY FOR DEVELOPING MILITARY AND INFRASTUCTURE.
THANKU
Sir/Madam:
The artilce was written by CyberGandhi, an Indian Dalit. Kindly take your issues up with him.
CAPS are considered “shouting” on the net. No need to get so pernicious.
1) The incident that you are referring to is very circumscept and the orchestrated incident was used as an excuse to rain carnage and genocidee against the Muslims of Gujarat. See official Indian investigative report on Gujarat carnage. Also see tapes of Mr. Modi directing the Gujarat genocide as reported by Indian outlet Tehelka.com
2) The entire Indian military program in its totality is Soviet based. The LCA has been in development for two decades with nothing to show for the billions spent. The Arjun tank has been a colossal failure. The Missile program (Agni, Trishul) have all died a natural death and in fact scrapped. The Flying coffins that India flies are a detriment to the poor polots who have to get intot he coffin. 500 Flying Coffin crashes are a worl record for any airforce on the planet..
3) This artilce discusses India, not any other country and presents indisputable facts with which you cannot argue with.
4) Discussion of any other country should be done on the appropriate page and article.
5) Perhaps a discussion of the other world powers viz a viz China, Russia, USA, France, Germany, Japan is appropriate but not on this page.
it seems u r more concerned for muslims in INDIA than any other thing
Great….One more Pakistani Webite againist India….Hey enlightened Pakistani, I dont want to mudsling Pakistan because the Whole World knows who is prospering & who is on the verge of collapse. Anyways a few points which are noteworthy :
1. Pakistan cant even defend themselves – True, U.S Commandos on multiple times entered Pakistani territory & killed the Pakistani Sucide Bombing recruitment centers. And Pakistan allowed that…Lesson 1 – First Learn to defend yourself & your so called soverign territory (thought NWFP was never in reality, a Pakistani Soverign territory since they never were under any ruler Pakistani or British) . Pot calling kettle black !!!!
2. Pakistani’s, including my rhetoric Pakistan friend are only concerned about Muslims & Islam and they couldnot find a difference between Pakistan & Islam. I dont blame you, because you were programmed for that by your relgious zealot (a real blessing in disguise for India) administrators like Zia ul Haq. The 150 Million Muslims are willing to defend India my friend. Remember the debacle in 1965 when you thought the whole of Kashmir will rise and revolt againist India whilst you attacked Indians. Ohhh…those are perfectly hidden failuress….shhhhhh
3. Do you by any chance know that in the past 15 years, we lifted 250 Million people out of poverty & made them the Middle-Class (economical & not the caste divide you trying to portray…). And that is the economic engine of India, guys like me, who got educated & contributes to the national economy rather than your folks queing up the nearest terrorist training recruitment camp.
4. When President Bush met our Prime Minister Mr. Manmohan Singh in 2007, do you know whats the first question asked ? – Mr. Singh, yours is a country of 150 Million Muslims but still Al Queida dont have any cadre there…what tactics did you employ ?
We take strong umbrage to your characterization of the site. We criticize, the US, UK, France, Holland, and Pakistan on this site. Why should India be exempt from criticism.
Not sure why Pakistan was brought up for discussion. The article written by an Indian, Cyber Gandhi of the Dalit Network discusses the under belly of “Incredible India” not shown by Bollywood.
Your comments will be conveyed to the author who resides in India.
The bigoted comments of a Computer coolie with an elated ego trying to put down other countries (not being discussed here) are ignored.
“Poverty Level” in India is defined at earning Rs 1250. There is an article on the statistics on the site. Brining up people who earn less than Rs 1250 to earn Rs 1251 may seem like a Herculian feet for the statisticians but does not change the fact that India has more poor than anywhere in the world. India’s poverty is deeper and more regressive than Sub Saharan Africa. http://rupeenews.com/2008/09/11/more-than-75-indians-live-below-poverty-line/
http://rupeenews.com/2008/03/24/how-long-to-extirpate-penury-in-india-300-years-to-end-poverty/
Please see the article that projects that under current growth rates–it will take more than 3 centuries to pull the pullulating millions out of penury in India.
I am sure Bush was snickering when he said that—because most of Kashmir is still under curfew, all its leaders are under arrest, and 40% of the land mass of the country is under the control of the Naxalites. Of course Assam and the seven sisters have already spun out of control.
After years of tutoring the world is taking a sigh of relief that the honorable Mr. Bush can now spell Mr. Singhs name. Mr. Bush, the paragon of knowledge and intellect and the all powerful Sonaia Gandhi’s Prime Minister Singh must have caught a spell of selective amnesia right after the multitude of bombings in Delhi and other areas!
2007 wasn’t the first time that Mr. Bush was looking for the WMDs in the wrong place. After losing two wars and destroying the financial system of the US, maybe his halo is slightly tarnished and maybe he has been discredited a bit!
i ‘ve been trieng to upload my comments since 3 weeks,
moin, r u deliberately not approving them to be posted here or wot?
Dear Moin ,
u always say this article is written by some f&**@%$%$ (am avoiding PROFANITY here,though there is a good scope) CYBERGANDHI , why u posted his article when u r not capable enough to answer raised questions in comments? also u always (again ABUSES VERY EFFICIENTLY AVOIDED here) BOAST like “why india should be immune towards any criticism only”, agreed totally, but why you post aritcles about PAKISTAN’s progress only while criticising india in every article about it, sure there are lot of articles too which has minor or little criticism about pakistan but there is no article here to praise any good thing in india. common moin give us a break, ” hum log itne be bure nahi hai “..
i rem a dialogue from GADAR : Aapka pakistaan jindabaad hai isse humein puri khushi hai, but hamara hindustaan murdabaad kyun?
Moin, i think u shud appreciate comments posted few readers here, they show our true picture,,, we want peace and BROTHERLY love between us….
Namastay, Shalom and hello:
Thank you for your comments. We appreciate the feedback. With more than half a million readers in the past few months and several thousand hits per day, we must be doing something right. We appreciate your patronage and value all our readers.–(except for those who use abusive language)
There are articles on this site with very serious criticism of the USA, UK, France, Germany, Holland and Pakistan. India should not be immune from criticism. If it is a democracy, then Indians should be able to take critcism like other nationalities. Rupee News tries to dismiss propaganda from any source. This site is not about “singing kumbaya”, we say it like it is–unbiased, balanced and fair.
However we hold malice towards none and peace for all. Here is ONE example of a positive article on India. There are scores of others. Some readers just read the criticism.
http://rupeenews.com/2008/10/14/reversing-religious-fundamentalism-which-is-destroying-india-building-hindu-muslim-unity/
An abridged version of our seminal article on Kashmir “On Kashmir Matters” is published on the BJP site too. Our book on Kashmir builds harmony.
There are many regular writers on this site. Dr. Cochal of Jawarhar Lal Nehru-Delhi, isha Khan from Bangladesh, and Prem from Nepal.
Agree or disagree with Bijjou Matheew of India, or A.Roy, they may be the Voltaires of India–all on this site.
Dr Kancha of Hyderabad is one of the best human being on the planet. He is a Buddhist and fights for Dalit rights. Cyber Gandhi of the Dalit Network, simply published facts and figures. There is hardly any opinion in the article. This is public information. If you can provide contradictory information, refuting the facts please submit it, and we will publish it.
Your criticism was on style not the content and the facts.
India should not be immune from criticism. If you need to feel good about Bharat, perhaps you should visit hinduunity.org and the BJP and Government of India site. To read critcism of Pakistan kindly visit the same sites or visit Siffynews or even sober paper like Hindustan Times etc. Kindly forward positive articles about Pakistan from Statesman, Deccan, Herald etc
There are articles on Hindu Muslim Unity, and Interfaith harmony (Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Buddhist etc) for which we work for any day. Please join us in our efforts to build bridges of harmony. If you send us positive articles on Pakistan-India relationship kindly submit them and we may publish them.
We do not allow any religious bigotry on this site. The vision for Pakistani 2014 is the vision of peace, as is the Speech for Dr. Manmohan Singh that the world expects from him
We never say Murdabad to anyone! We always say Jai Hindh, Pakistan Zindabad, God Bless the USA, Long Live China, Joy Bangla, Jeeway Nepal, Viva Le France.
Now do you expect us to fly the tricolor and sing Jan Ganh a Man Adhee Nayak Bhraat Bhagay oh dhata..my brother from Atlanta…for you we will!
Also Go Braves!, Go Falcons!, Go Hawks! & Go Thrashers!
Was Salaam and Namashkar.
Moin
it is a fact that india is a third world country with the largest population beneath poverty line. they claim to be a super power but they can never be till they exist. more than half of their budge is used for their military.
there are a dozen of revolts in different parts of india like one in assam, these areas are not under the control of indian goverment. first they solve their internal disputes and secure themselves and then talk to us
Salam,
Came acorss this site while roaming around in web. Happy to see interesting discusssion here.
Its true that India need a world of improvements. We are weak in many aspects but we are not too bad at all.
Beeing a muslim, i need to say something to our Pakistani bros, Muslims here in India is in a better shape than in most of the other countries. Moreover we are not facing any threats or as many as other religions suffer in muslim countries or in muslim majority countries.
Here is some inresting stuffz. I was in Malaysia for about an year. I came to know that the mojority muslims has reservations, huh . i cant digest this for a long time since i am coming from a place where reservations are made for minorities and for the poor.
And talking about the Dalits in India, I accept the fact that they are still in some sort of bad situation, but they are not been overlooked anymore in india. I would they have far more better chance than any other individual to go up the ladder. Dont forget, the previous PM of India K.R Narayanan is a Harijan. (He is from my native place :). I cant refrain from mentioning Abdul Kalam, he was from poor family back ground as well).
Guys, these are not pulled out from any sites or from any surveys, this something which i have seen in my life in my sourroundings, it may be different in other places.
Ma-Salama
“Mohsin” thank you for your feedback. We appreciate it.
British Colonialism on the Malay peninsula had disenfranchised the Malays as much as it had disenfranchised the Sinhalese in Lanka (Ceylon).
Malaysia is a very special case where the Malays at independence were at the bottom of the economic ladder. There were intense racial riots in the 50s when Mahatir Muhammad clamped down and created a quota system for those who were poor, destitute, ilietrate and disenfranchised–most of whom happen to the Malay Muslims.
The Indian (both Muslims and Hindus) fared a little better than the Malays, just like the “Indians’ IN Kenya, Uganda, and South Africa fared a bit better than the natives.
The Chinese are at the top of the conomic and social ladder. Malysia’s political system has worked pehnominally well and rocketed it to the top of the Muslim world as well as on the Asia success story list.
THERE IS NO COMPARISION BETWEEN AFFLUENT MALAYSIA AND PENURY STRICKEN INDIA…though there are many lessons learned..
Malaysia chresihes its poor and downtrodden, India shuns them.
India on the other hand is the only islan of penury in Asia and through its horrible policies has kept 75% of its population under Sub Saharan leveal and becuase of its military adventures in Kashmir, Junagarh, Mnavadar, Bangladesh, Lanka, Maldive, Sikkim, Tibet, China (in fact all her neighbors) has kept the entire Subcontinent down.
Tokenism does not mean anything. More than 450 million Dalits (they dont want to be called Harijans), are below the poverty line of Rs 1250. Most live in subhuman conditions.
150 million Muslims live in abject poverty and tokenism does nothing to improve their lot.
The surveys prove enverythings. Read the writings of Dr. Koncha (Dalit Freedom Network) also posted on this site. Also see Dr. Clochal
http://rupeenews.com/moins-articles/dalit-liberation-page/
so u think all muslims and dalits are poor and brahmans r ruling them like kings???????
wake up, and get a visa and come c for urself………
For those who can read know that the author dos not need a visa, the article was written by an Indian Dalit in India
Greetings All Indians,
I invite you all indian toward islam. to worship One God
And accept Muhammad(pbuh) as Messenger. this is the truth.And bear wintness that i invite you all.
My Grand Grand Grand Grand father was hindu in india he accept the true (Islam).
i see most off blongs critise against india but it is true.
when you critise againts pakistan. they do accept.
why cant you.
for example when they say pakistan has less PHD then indian PHD but we accept it.
now come on tell me how many indian have visit nmuslim neighbour hood and see poor muslim ?
still denied it.
and one think you canot denied that Muslim did rules all india before Birtish (scum) came in.
we treat you with dignity .
we could have kill all hindus and force you to become muslim. Islam said their no compulcion in reglion.
but currrent you have stole and kill muslim and other crime
is just the shame that only ignorent people forget the past. but rembere time will change on you
Dear Indian & Pakistan brothers,
Greetings to you all. I am glad a discussion goes here with negligible harshness. India is gonna be a peace enhancing world power. No one can deny that and i don’t have to give any justification and waste my time and yours too. Its a fact reiterated by the world powers like US, RUSSIA etc…… I know its just round the corner. I do accept accept that dalits, Christians, minorities and Muslim are targeted by mindless fanatics who i feel are a shame to my country as every country have a few crazy people. Also other issues that are told by our brotheren “DALIT” are true but those will be blown off like fog on sunshine(Education) soon… Mr. Dalit… I know many dalits who have come up so well just because they put things aside and studied well. Don waste your valuable time go educate my dalit brothers. Let the sun shine even brighter. If you want examples please visit southern parts of India ( infact, you don’t have visa issues too)
What i whole heatedly wish is even our brothers the brave Pakistanis must spend time and money on education and technology to enhance their world presence rather than waste money in useless weapons that cant even be used to plough a ground for a grain of paddy… Not that India is not investing on weapons but it has invested in a lot other things that is bearing fruit for the country. i strongly believe that only education could bring India up so much and it will surely work for Pakistan. I wish we together compete with the world hand in hand. We (Indians) love you brothers.
See you guys at the bigger stage(don’t crumble in petty things)……
Whenever so called scholars/academics/experts (Raised/Funded by US/West) discuss any evil/wrong in our Muslim societies on Media especially TV, they never try to exactly locate the center of gravity of that issue. Their reasoning, and intended solutions are shallow and mostly in mars/space because they always try to avoid the context and history of the issue.
What is unfolding now in whole Muslim World and especially Pakistan, is somewhat ‘creative chaos’ in almost all walk of life. If you have monopoly over world resources (Oil, Drugs, Technology, Banks, Media etc) , superiority in intelligence and multiple means of buying out loyalties of the readily saleable commodities (Karzai, Yasir Arrafat, Mahmood Abbas, Musharaf, Saudis, Benaizer, Nawaz, Zardari, Local Journalist, Generals, Bureaucrats, Businessmen etc.) like the US/West does, then the fog of chaos is a good way of confusing the enemy and continuing exploitation/deprivation by de-facto colonization even after so called freedom. One of the main reason for Muslim failure during last several decades in almost all fields is the result of well planned disorientation campaign. Multiple channels are used varying from brute force of carpet bombing/armed invasions to dubious soft tool like human rights, media, trade, MNCs, NGOs, globalization, academic dialogue and last of War on terror. However the only objective is to curtail Islam, whip Muslims and thrash them depending upon the situation and environment.
We will take a common day example of the curse of Heroin. As it is normally believed that Herion like Terrorism popped out of blue from Pakistan Tribal Areas/Afghanistan. It is generally believed that simple tribal men and war lords are only responsible for menace of Heroin but never told the link between Afghan War, CIA, Heroin, BCCI and finance for US Stringers made by private MNCs.
Heroin is prepared from morphine (extracted from opium) by boiling it with acetic anhydride, and then using a process that involves hydrochloric acid, strychnine, and caffeine. The most essential chemical for Heroin (i.e. acetic anhydride) is produced only in West, No Muslim country has any plant for producing acetic anhydride. Recently its import to Afghanistan through Karachi Afghan transit route under flag of NATO/US since 9/11 has increased exponentially. MNCs producing all such chemicals are making billions.
Heroin was basically invented by BAYER Pharmaceutical/Agro MNCs. It is also operating in many countries like Pakistan and making Billions. CIA introduced Heroin in South America, Vietnam and Last of all Afghanistan/Pakistan. Hereon and present drug economy is very similar to Colonial era Opium trade of that era.
Similarly all the business families (Mostly present ruling establishment in Indo/Pak/Bangla Desh) are those who acted as middle men for opium export to China. Most of them control II Chundrigar Road, Karachi/Bombay Stock exchange and Power Houses in IndoPak. Those past collaborators/supporters of past colonials and present day ruling elites will always pray anthems of US/West. Any voice or force raising against US/West is curbed with Iron hand, it may be Lawyers Movement or Red Mosques or Tribal Areas or Rag Tag Taliban. Please see the interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008) about opium wars of 1830s and 1850s and opium production in Bengal/Bombay by East India Company.
This is not about blaming the US/West for our all problems. Muslims needs to set its own house in order but there is no question that the Heroin in Afghanistan, NWFP and Tribal area were almost nonexistent before CIA operation against Soviet Invasion. Similar terrorism, intolerance, lawlessness in Tribal Area is the direct product of the machinations of the local/international establishment powers that were based in Tribal region even before Afghan-Soviet War in 1970s.
For we Muslims and Pakistani in particular, this is not a time for optimism. It’s better to be cautious now – even paranoid – than sorry later. The events in our society in general and tribal region in particular did not emerge from a void but are a continuation of a dirty game played since colonization and continues unabated, involving critical inside players and their outside allies.
To draw a line in the sand, we should openly declare US/CIA directly responsible for creating/nourishing/sponsoring chaos, terror, lawlessness, drug economy in our regions.
Regards
FM Shah
Interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7460682.stm
Hello brother. I accept that we have so much of problems in India. Tons of problems that you cannot even count. But this problems are not invented by us. It was a plague because of the 2000 year old bad tradition people in this sub continent followed.
However the situation is changing so fast. There are special reservations for dalits and other minorities. They are now soon transforming in to big harmonious communities. However it may take us an another 25 years to eradicate discrimination.
Further being a secular Indian, I am against the violence against minorities, but some people are mad and couldn’t be stopped. I am a christian and I am proud to be an Indian, there is no wrong in agreeing about the problems and trying to solve it.
India never dreams of the concept called “Akand bharart”. As you may know that we had the chance to annex bangladesh before its independence since we literally controlled the state, nations such as Nepal, Bhutan and Sri lanka which are which are very identical Indian culture and tradition can also be annexed but we didn’t. Why don’t you see China which had annexed all the regions through which it shared cultural distinctions on some grounds.
Minorities are targeted everywhere. You must know Xinjiang province. It is a Muslim dominated province in China and still people are not allowed to worship God. During cultural revolution tens of thousands of Muslims are massacred, buried alive, raped, and why you didn’t speak against them. Just because you have good relations with China having the same goal of countering China and turning blind eyes towards horrors committed against your religion there.
It is good that you are fighting about minority rights, why don’t you fight about Xinjiang and other regions where Muslims are suffering. If you are really true and honest there should be partiality in your view.
I saw some pictures of sadhus in your blog. Does Islam doesn’t teaches you to respect other’s religion and freedom. Where is gentle Islam followed by Saladdin, why are you criticizing other’s religion and culture just because you don’t like them.
God will never forgive if you are using his name in wrong way and remember to be impartial and to be moderate.
all the facts u mentioned is bit in wrong manner
for exampal………………
India recorded a GDP growth rate of 9.1% for the fiscal year 2007–2008 which made its growth the second fastest among emerging economies in the world, after China.At this rate of sustained growth many economists forecast that India would, over the coming decades, have a more pronounced economic effect on the world stage. India is the twelfth largest in the world, with a GDP of 1.2 trillion United States dollars (2008), which is approximately equal to Texas or Canada.[6][7]. Despite recent rate of growth, India’s large 1.1 billion people population has an estimated per capita income of $3,963, measured by PPP, and $941, measured in nominal terms, as of 2007[update].
Should see this web-page
https://forums.yaleglobal.yale.edu/thread.jspa?threadID=951&tstart=60
Salaam Moin,
Job well done on bringing to your readers’ attention another excellent article and putting some much-needed focus on the plight of hundreds of millions in Hindustan. However unfortunate it is to see such filth and squalor in any country, it serves also to underscore the importance of Pakistan, and the gratitude that all Pakistanis owe to Allah (SWT) for allowing them a land of their own, free from such unbelievable degradation.
Hindustan is rapidly falling prey to its most repulsive instincts, namely caste division, religious insecurity and total lack of national identity. There is only so much more minority blood that the bloodthirsty Brahmins can shed before they acknowledge their own failings and try to mend their ways. If not, Hindustan will go back to being the myth that it was in the Middle Ages, in other words a mere collection of disparate kingdoms. Perhaps, and this seems an increasingly inevitable realisation, that would be a boon for the rest of the world after all.
I hope both you and the author keep up the good work.
Regards,
Hasan
though many of your points against india are valid, still some points for you to note :
yes dalits were traditionally discriminated against – and such discrimination continues in many parts of india today. but it is against the law and illegal. if convicted the accused will serve time in prison which has happened many times in the recent past.
a dalit chief minister mayawati rules india’s largest state today. a dalit is the chief justice of india today. a dalit has been a president too. and the indian system gives preferential treatment to dalits in education and employment and many dalits have benefitted by these schemes.
so yes there is discrimination against dalits. but there is a lot of improvement too.
and the swastika is a traditional hindu symbol which the nazis appropriated and misused. but btw their slanted swastika is not the same as the hindu symbol.
you claim that the pakistani civilization is 5000 years old (i agree because even most pakistanis are of hindu stock) – but isn’t it the practice of islam to validate itself by condemning the original culture of the land? else why be a muslim and not a hindu or buddhist?
the massacres in gujarat are indeed shameful. but that’s not the only lot of muslims in india. one of india’s richest man azeem premji, the ceo of wipro ltd, is a muslim. muslim actors dominate bollywood. our ex-president and missile man abdul kalam is one. so was azarudding our cricket captain. in contrast what has been the succes of the hindu minority in pakistan? in fact where is the hindu minority which apparently constituted 20% of the population of pakistan at the time of independence? one of your own thinkers admits in the dawn paper that most have either been converted, killed, raped, driven off etc.
so yes india has a lot of faults just like pakistan. but the difference is that india is honestly confronting its issues and moving ahead, while pakistan is going the other way.
Thank you for your response. Mayawati and Kalam type of tokenism does nothing to ameliorate the condition of 350 million Dalits plus 150 million scheduled classes (total of more than 450 million) and 150 million Muslims who even according to Bharti studies struggle to eek out a living.
India intoxicated by meager success is blind to real self-portrait of caste infested penury and balkanization
http://rupeenews.com/2008/11/28/mumbai-intoxicated-india-deaf-blind-to-internal-terror-unable-to-introspect-resolve-its-huge-race-caste-religious-problems/
ghettoisation, social boycott, discrimination in employment and blurring of lines between the state and religion as witnessed in Gujarat” and said “out of the hopelessness and despair of the Muslim community–and if not addressed firmly–the Christian tribal communities too will rise new waves of terror “There is no other explanation for the pheonmenon of graduates, engineers and doctors born, educated and living in India taking to the path of violence”, Indian, Finance Minister P Chidambaram
Kashmiris chant azadi & Jeevay Jeevay Pakistan in equal numbers and with equal intensity” “There was a green flag on every lamp post, every roof, every bus stop and on the top of chinar trees. A big one fluttered outside the All India Radio building. http://rupeenews.com/2008/08/23/kashmir-land-and-freedom/
Indians are so fond of quoting abdul kalam , khan family of bollywood , azaharuddin, A R rehman as muslim representation of equality in india. Just being inquisitive i ask Why all these reached the top ? was it for reserved quota for muslims in secular india or it was their individual brilliance which saw them through to the top? Obviously the later one.
Once it comes to getting entertained or some help in strengthning ur country indians are ready to accept help from anyone. But reciprocating in terms of giving right to live let alone communal parity is usualy wats found wanting everytime .
Irfan bhaai, You have a lot to learn from APJ & Rahman. Kalaam is an exception. He was a muslim but educated in hindu schools and he does both prayers and namaz. AR Rahman was born Hindu Mudaliar. What you pakistani ‘muslims’ should understand is Islam is a religion of love. But What Islam you are following is just hatred and are butchers.
Being a Muslim in India is far better than being a killer in the name of Islam Pakistan.
I teach urdu and Islam with pride here in universities. My locality people wish me during Eid, give sweets during diwali. I stay surrounded by hindu people but still my family has no fear.
My daughter is studying medicine in a Hindu college under the scholarship and to let you know your facts this scholarship is provided by the govt for being Muslim. and compare your situations over there in the regions occupied by taliban butchers how many brothers are killed, do you have a count of how many sisters were raped and fed to taliban?
you will be the slaves of those merciless killers one day.
Remember Haneef the entire bangalore citizens (majority were hindus) pleaded for his rescue from the australian police, just because he was an Indian and they still had the faith. Its only becuase of pakistan’s Islamic policy we have a bad image. I dont blame any muslim or muslim nation for such a bad image, if the muslims are being hated its just because of few pakistani’s I feel ashame of calling you as musalmaan bhaai. You ppl dont belong to Islamic blood becuase you have no love. You are killers of innocent which is against Islam.
muslims are poorest community in india as well as in england and olther developed world.
jews and hindus one day will wip out mulims from the map.
muslims tried to create problems in between jews and hindus.thank god, that our brothers in moshad knows it.u muslims are dirtiest animal in the world.
what about the benejir bhutto who got kiiled by a pakistani gun man.u people are so fanatics that u people clean the ass mullahs to hurt india.
history is eveidence that muslims had the least IQ.
indus valley civilisations was based in todays pakistan,but that time in that area hindus lived.there were no muslims.
[insults deleted upon reader request].that is why islam considered as terrorist religion
Ban
Your IQ is too less so much so even a monkey can outwit you in seconds but thts not the issue here You dare to insult our prophet thats enough to tell us which part of ur anatomy you use to think and then converse no discussion with you . Hindus didnt let their own GOD father gaandhi live for a fortnight after independance expecting them to respect others religion is foolish.
Admin : Please expunge his comments regarding our prophet .
And MR symbolofpeace
i sincerely wish you all the luck in this world to stay ,as happy and jubilant as you have made us believe. you will surely need all this luck and even more to escape hindu fanatics. So called light which you are seeing at the end of the tunnel is not sun its an approaching train. Fi amanALLAH
Ban
You have deviated from the topic of this article and decided instead to spew venom on Muslims. Just like a typical, fanatical, ignorant, Islamophobic Hindu.
Let’s address your concerns.
1) Don’t mention England, developed world and India all in the same sentence. India is an under developed, poverty stricken, disease ridden country.
2) Jews and idol worshipper alliances have been “one day” wiping out the Muslims for the past fourteen centuries. Dig up history books and learn the outcome of previous such endeavours by enemies of Islam.
3) Mossad agents would not hesitate to slaughter their own grandmother in pursuit of their Zionist goals. Their Hindu “brothers” are worth no more than condoms. They will flick you off with utter disregard once they have used you.
4) Mulsims cleanse themselves with clean water five times daily. Hindus bathe in and drink human excrement contaminated Ganges. Some clean animals you are.
5) Who killed Mohandas Gandhi, Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi?
6) History is “evidence” that “least IQ’ Muslims ruled your country for a cool one thousand years.
7) Read the articles on this site to learn about the Indus Valley Civilisation. The people of IVC did not worship millions of gods, they were not vegetarian and there is generally nothing Hindu about them except their geographic proximity to the Indus river.
Shall we now return to the subject matter of this article?
Why dont you people take the trouble to find out and do something for people in Pakistan instead of lecturing about
India and its present state.
India may be having it problems but its anyday a better
place to live in than Pakistan.
India may look chaotic on the top but its stable underneath and that is what is galling to the Pakistanis and Chinese.
This article is about Bharat and written by a Bharati–not a Pakistani
Any body can say he is an Indian on the net and even if the article is written by an Indian that only shows his anti India bias,which you people are encouraging.
How about some articles by Pakistanis regarding the situation in Balochistan!
y do u hate bharat so much?
look into ur own house bef u throw stones at others
i reccomend u read the pakistani dawn newspaper
rgd
richie rodrigues
This site publishes critical analysis of policies of the US, the UK, China, France, Germany, Russia, Bangladesh, Nepal, Lanka and Pakistan. Why should Bharat be an exception?
Several articles have been published on Baluchistan. Several artilcles from Isha Khan and other criticize Bangaldesh this week. There is a critical analysis of the Pakistani Ambassador in todya’s issue and a scathing article of Mr. Nawaz Sharif. There is analysis and repudiation of Pakistani trade policies.
Once you visit this site on a daily basis you will see that our team covers a lot of topics and thre are no sacred cows.
We appreciate your feedback
We don’t hate anyone. The pundits in Delhi should answer the question that has been asked. However two generations of Pakistanis, Nepalese, Chinese, Lankans, Maldivians, Mayanmarese, and Bangaldeshis hate Bharati hegemony policies. We have been reading dawn.com (Dawn) since 1969. Several artilces on this site are referenced on both dawn.com and thedawn.com.pk (The Dawn)
Gen Hossain Mohammed Ershad, the first host of Saarc in 1985, said bluntly in a TV documentary sponsored by India’s foreign ministry that one of the main reasons for creating the grouping was that India’s smaller neighbours were ‘allergic’ to the big neighbour. ‘So we decided to bring everyone together to deal with the problem.’ Former US Senator and ex-ambassador to New Delhi Daniel Patrick Moynihan proclaimed that India is a big country, which behaves small.
I have yet to come across a serious, objective discussion in any of the newspapers why India’s neighbours are allergic to it. Instead of blaming Pakistan’s ISI sleuths who probably play a hand whenever they find an opening in determining or undermining India’s ties with its neighbours, would it not be useful for Indian intellectuals and analysts to have a meaningful discussion as to why India’s RAW or IB are unable to neutralise the damage? India helped create Bangladesh out of Pakistan, but Dhaka today has better ties with Islamabad than with New Delhi. Is it because of ISI alone? Buddhist Sri Lanka, Hindu Nepal, they all seem to have better ties with Pakistan than with India. Shouldn’t there be a commission of inquiry set up by India to investigate the lapses by its ministers, officials and sleuths that have brought the country to a pass that bewildered Moynihan?
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/jawed-naqvi-is-india-really-a-big-nation-which-behaves-small-499
Dear Sir ,
Criticising and writing abusing things will not makeyour country and yourself great. Your countrycountry cannot progres till people like you and fundamentalists are eradicated . Derranged thinking never helped mankind and the nation one inhabit . Wish you best of luck and be happy. Go on criticizing India , if we find any point worth we will address to it .
Kumar
Dear Sir ,
It is not the original version and has been modified & distorted by the myopic vision of Ansari.In India nobody writes the way it is written Hindus own .Ansari dont distort otherwise people of your country will be mislead. Thrown Parsis from Iran make bigest empire of business
1, Tata— top ranking– Parsi
2, WadiaParsi
3 Godrej Parasi
4Wipro –Ajim Muslim
there are many more come top slot . Their empire account appx 50-40 billion Dollrs as per my knowledge
dont fool
Kumar
How sad–Bharat houses 40% of the worlds poor, while upper caste and the privilaged live in the lap of luxury beyond the reach of anyone. Individual accomplishment have nothing to do with the sate which is barbaric and neanderthal. Nehru’s Socialistic policies helped the Tata’s and Birlas to exploit the lower caste and accumalate wealth.
About Parsis–please see Parzania–it is based on a true story.
If Tokenism had any value Bollywood would have cashed in on it.
We do not accept unsolicited advice..so you can keep it to yourself. When we seek advice we pay for it.
Mr. Kumar: Your opinion is only world the paper it is written on. Rupee News does not accept free advice. When we need advice we know where to turn.
Your opinions about Pakistan are based upon Anti-Pakistani racism and Islamphobic bigotry. It it not worth any value–your comments simply cannot refute any of the facts and figures, so you turn to abusive language and throwbacks at Pakistan and Pakistanis.
Your phobia about anything and everything Pakistan is laughable. Your picture of Pakistan is based on your temple education as ensconed in your so called “education” system. Even if a Bharati eulogizes a Pakistani, the entire nation goes into a tizzy fit. No Pakistani journalists ever are published in Bharati paper. Various Pakistani papers routinely publish Bharati opinions and thoughts. All these factors make people like you bigoted racists.
When they see criticism of Bharat which falls outside their own paradigm, they cannot handle it–and revert to name calling and abusive language. All your comments inform us that you have no clue about Pakistan and you cannot refute the facts and figures presented.
The article was written by Cyber Gandhi, Of course we have added information, pictures and videos to the article. Please take up your criticism of the Bharat with the Dalit Nation and the Dalit Freedom Network.
We don’t have to go on criticisng anyone. This article was written several years ago. We criticize every coutnry in the world, the UK, the US, Germnay, Suda, China, Lanka, France, German, and Pakistan—-not sure why Bharat should be an exception.
well said brother. I hope all muslims in Pakistan were like all the muslims in India and accept that Islam is a religion of peace.
please let me understand that if india is so downtrodden and other neighbours of it are so developed then why they always failed to win a single face to face war against india and why india isat the emerging horizon of the world with its IT sector and outsourcing industries ruling even the develped nations..
regards
shailesh kaushik
Another example of the great temple indoctrination–if Pakistan lost the 1948 war where did Nother Areas and Azad Kashmir materialize from?
Didin’t you hear about the Bharati defeat at the hands of China in 1962?
If Pakistan lost the 1965 war–what does Bharat have to show for it?
The IT industry is $42 billion and affects only 6 million people–nothing fantastic about that number
Dear Moin Ansari Saheb ,
Shed your tear waht is ahppening in Pakistan .Dont blame India for all these you are reaping what you sowed. At least people like me In India hate violence even in Pakistan and as you are propogating India is the cause , even if I find any Indian doing , I will kill him . Reda this Dawn:
Bomb kills three US marines, TTP claim attack By Haleem Asad
Wednesday, 03 Feb, 2010 Security officials walk past the crater of a bombing and destroyed school in Timergara, the main town in Lower Dir district, located in Pakistan’s restive North West Frontier Province on February 3, 2010.–Reuters Photo. Front Page
Filling of Mangla, hydropower projects in jeopardy Filling of Mangla, hydropower projects in jeopardy TIMERGARA: Three American soldiers were among the eight killed in a suicide attack in the northern Lower Dir district on Wednesday, a senior security official said.
The bomber drove his explosives-laden vehicle into a convoy of the paramilitary Frontier Corps that was on its way to inaugurate a school in Kad that was blown up by the Taliban but rebuilt with money from the United States Assistance for International Development (USAID), the official said.
Two US army trainers were also amongst the 131 wounded, most of who were school children. Two journalists accompanying the convoy were also wounded.
Operation Commander, Col. Nadeem Mirza is also reported to have sustained injuries.
The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan has accepted responsibility for the bombing, a private television channel said.
Earlier reports had indicated that the convoy was hit by a roadside bombing near Koto village, Hajiabad but police and security officials now say the vehicle laden with 140 kilograms of explosives had done the job.
The officials were also insisting that the foreigners killed in the bombing were US aid workers from the USAID.
Condemning what it called vicious terrorist bombing, a US Embassy statement said the Americans were US military personnel in Pakistan to conduct training at the invitation of the Pakistan Frontier Corps.
They were in Lower Dir to attend the inauguration ceremony of a school for girls that had recently been renovated with US humanitarian assistance, the statement said.
Amongst those killed were four school girls and a paramilitary soldier. “Our teacher was teaching us Islamic education when the explosion caused the roof of our class to cave in”, Samina, a 5th grade student of the school said.
The official said that the American soldiers were trainers training the Dir Scouts of the Frontier Corps in Dir.
“They usually wore Pakistani dress, shalwar qameez, and Chitrali caps to conceal their identity”, the official said.
The Americans were traveling in an armoured vehicle with electronic jammers.
“A remote controlled explosives device would not have done the damage. This was clearly a targeted hit. The bomber targeted their vehicle”, the official said, requesting he not be named.
The killed US soldiers have been identified as Sgt John, Sgt Sikle and Sgt Andrew. A US army major identified as Maj. Roth has been critically wounded.
The bodies of the slain US soldiers and wounded paramilitary personnel were later evacuated to Peshawar by helicopters.
“It was a huge blast”, local journalist, Haroon Rashid, who accompanied the convoy and was also wounded in the explosion,” he told Dawn.
“The army has sealed off the area and no one is being allowed to move. I am here with wounds on my leg and arms and am waiting to be evacuated”, he said on phone from the scene of the occurrence.
The security official said the group was on its way to inaugurate a primary school in Kad, Lower Dir that had been blown up by militants but was rebuilt by USAID.
The security forces immediately sealed off the area and began evacuating the dead and wounded.
Administrative head of the District Headquarters Hospital in Lower Dir, Dr. Wakil Mohammad said that a total of 122 school children were brought to the hospital for medical treatment.
The bomb also damaged an adjoining girls’ middle school. The damage to the two schools would affect education of nearly six hundred children.
The security forces cordoned off the area and launched a search operation. The official said that twenty-two people had been rounded up for questioning.
Dear Ansari Saheb
Salam-wale-kum
How to neighbour works in spite of serious dispute problems. Defence expenditure of India is high bcz of this dispute . Nuclear submarine , blue water navy , aircraft carrier are the reason of this dispute but we still coperate with eachother where ever chance arises . Such as climate as u know , energy sector .
read this article in Xinhua:
Home
China, India stoke energy bond
English.news.cn 2010-02-03 09:39:47 FeedbackPrintRSS
By Ma Jiali
BEIJING, Feb. 3 –To ensure their rapid economic development and rise in international status, both China and India have paid great attention to energy security in recent years.
As two major developing countries in the world, China and India are working to cooperate in the energy sector in line with common benefits. This relationship helps to avoid bitter competition between the two, reduce unnecessary use of diplomatic and economic resources and dilute impacts from the global financial recession. Ultimately, this bond could ensure their economic recovery and growth in the post-crisis era.
Heading into this year, the global recession – triggered by the United States financial meltdown – seems to be nearing its end. In the new year, new emerging economies such as China and India will lead the recovery, becoming the engine of global growth. The energy cooperation between China and India is going to attract more eyes again.
India, however, has very poor energy resources. In 2007, Indian Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar announced that the nation had 16.6 billion tons of oil reserves. Even so, with its 1.1 billion population, the per-capita reserves in India are only 1.5 tons, less than 1/42 of the world average.
India’s current dependency on foreign oil exceeds more than 75 percent. Increase in imports, with the surge in oil prices, has cost India a great deal of foreign exchange assets and has burdened its foreign trade balance.
According to estimates by India, if oil prices rise for every $5, India’s economic growth rate will drop 0.5 percent, and its inflation rate would increase by 1.4 percent. Oil has become a key factor for India to sustain its economic development. As India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said: “Energy security has become a serious problem, second only to food security”.
China, on the other hand, has only 5 billion tons in oil resources, less than 7 percent of the global average. Since China became a net importer of oil in 1993, its purchases of foreign oil have increased annually. In 2008, China’s crude oil imports reached 17,800 tons, while refined oil imports were 39 million tons, a rise of 9.6 percent due to the foreign dependency rate of 48.5 percent. In 2009, China imported nearly 200 million tons of crude oil, and the foreign dependency rate was estimated at more than 50 percent.
This last figure is most convincing. The International Energy Agency predicted that China and India’s foreign oil dependency will be 61 percent and 85 percent respectively by 2010. At present, China is the world’s second largest consumer of oil. India is the world’s fifth largest consumer but soon to become the fourth largest. By 2030, India will likely pass Japan and Russia to become the world’s third largest energy consumer.
This is why the two governments of China and India have begun a dialogue and cooperation on energy. In April 2005, during Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to India, the two governments issued a joint declaration. Article 9 of the declaration states that the two countries have agreed to cooperate in energy security and energy savings. It also encourages a collaboration to explore and exploit oil and natural gas resources in the third country.
In December 2005, oil companies from the two countries teamed up for the first time to purchase 37 percent of oil assets in Syria that belonged to the Canadian Oil Co at a cost of $573 million. India Oil and Natural Gas Corp is also working with China Petroleum and Chemical Corp in Iran to exploit Aveda Varan oil field, of which China holds 50 percent and India holds 20 percent in shares.
On Feb 22, 2005, India Gas Co signed an agreement with China that India would invest $243 million in China Gas Co. It became the first-ever cooperation between listed companies of the two countries. In August 2006, China and India worked again to buy 50 percent of the shares of an oil field in Colombia.
In January 2006, Indian Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar led an Indian natural gas delegation to visit China, helping in the signing of five agreements.
Moreover, the multilateral dialogue on energy has become a stage for Sino-Indian cooperation. In November 2004, India invited China, Japan and South Korea to hold a meeting in New Delhi in the hopes of collectively negotiating with Middle East oil suppliers to reduce oil premiums.
In early 2005, India hosted a round table meeting of “Asian Ministers on Oil Co-operation”, inviting China and other countries. At the meeting, major oil-consuming countries in Asia, including China, Japan, South Korea and India, agreed to adopt a unified position to deal with the “Asian premium” and oil security issues together.
On Dec 16, 2006, energy ministers of China, the U.S., Japan, South Korea, and India met in Beijing to discuss energy security issues, how to maintain the stability of the international energy market, and form a relationship of cooperation instead of competition. The summit and dialogue of foreign ministers between China, India and Russia also called for strengthened energy cooperation between them.
China and India, with rapidly growing economies, are also seeing a dependent rise in energy demand. Since both are large energy consumers and importers, there are some contradictions and competition between them. Therefore, we must pay attention to sticking to the following basic principles in considering Sino-Indian energy cooperation in the post-crisis era.
First, strengthen communication. Efficient communication between the two will enable them to know the situation well and make use of it.
Second, avoid unnecessary harm. With huge populations between them, China and India should hold long-term talks to avoid any “lose-lose” consequences.
Third, advance the exchange of technology. The two have comparative advantages, and should learn from each other for common development.
Fourth, jointly promote the stability of the global energy market. China and India have limited abilities because of their developing status, but both should strive for more power to speak their minds.
The author is a researcher at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations.
(Source: China.org.cn)
Editor: Han Jingjing
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These buisness deals to make money are good
Bharat is the root cause of all terror in Pakistan, Lanka, Bangladesh, China, Sikkim, Bhutan, Maldives, and Nepal. The LTTE, TTP are all RAW outfits with different names
Dear Moin Saheb
Salam wale kum
Only you and few disgruntled Pakistani blame for terrorist activity to India.
It have been proved that Lashkare-Toeba, ISI and Miltiary establisment were involved in 26 /11 masacre in Bombay. Whole world saw it . All the terrorist attacks in the are traced to Pakistan proved ( David Hadley , and other) British PM told bluntly to your PM / President bluntly. Proof has been given & whole world( Italy , Canad Frnace ,Germany, US, UK)0knows it .
Your own people have been caught by your investigating agency for charges of Involvement of terror in Bombay.Accepted by your governement.
Where willyou hide your face ? Besharmi ki bhi had hoti hai .
KASAB is living example .
9/11 trced to pakistan — terrorist provided money
Uk Terrorism traced to — Pakitani people
Afgan terrorism – Karzai and america — points to pakistan
Terrorist hiding in Pakistan — Mulla omar , Osama Bin Laden, Dawood , Maulana Masood azhar ( declared by UN & Interpole )
You know all but I am writing for thereaders of your site .
It is enough . See through the eyes of neutral people .
You will find you are guilty for the chaos of whole world
Even your colleague — speaks terrorist country
Pakistan has to walk miles to improve its credential as other countries .
KUMAR
Wa Laikum:
Your statement is not true and represents the Bharati (aka Indian) poit of view–the entire Pakistani leadership (Mr. Zardari, Mr. Gilani etc), government (Interior Minister Rehman Malik and other ministers), Majlish e Shura (National Assembly) and Aiwan e Bala (Senate) and Mitiary heirarchy have blamed Bharat (aka India) for the terrorism in Pakistan. There is ample evidence of this–and has been published by AhmedQureshi.com and Nation.com.pk
Even the Times of India has now admitted the local angle to the Mumbai blasts.
Bharar is terror central for Lanka (LTTE), Nepal (various terror groups), China (Tibet and Xinjiang), Maldives (replacing the elected leadership), Sikkim (attempting to take over the country), Bhutan (attempting to take over the country), Bangladesh ((attempting to take over the country and in Chittagong Hill Tracks), Afghanistan (Northern Alliance) and Pakistan (TTP)–this terrorism has to stop if Bharat ever hopes to have peace in South Asia
Dear Moin Ansari
This article is for your review and comment . Hope Kaveri engine for Tejas will beready in 2010 . Your China fighter airraft has engine of Ukrain Make . These days Tejas is being fitted by GE 404
Kaveri engine’s naval version doing fine
Published : January 2009
Bangalore. The 12 MW marine gas turbine engine derived from the Kaveri jet engine is doing fine and will be used for propelling naval craft.
Kaveri, being developed for India’s indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) here, is still to mature for powering aircraft but its naval variant has is under successful trials to power ships of the Indian Navy.
Using the core of the Kaveri engine, GTRE scientists have added Low Pressure Compressor and Turbine as a gas generator and designed a Free Power Turbine to generate shaft Power for maritime application. The Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine (KMGT), as it has been named, is now installed on to the Marine Gas Turbine test bed at the Naval Dock Yard, Vishakapatnam. This is an Indian Navy Facility capable for testing Gas Turbines up to 25 MW of shaft power through a reduction gearbox and a water brake dynamometer.
According to DRDO spokesperson Suranjan Pal, the involvement of Indian Navy in the development of this engine has given a tremendous push to the success of the project achieved so far.
GTRE is one of the important units of DRDO.
The engine has been further tested to its potential of 12 MW at ISA SL 35°C condition which is the requirement of the Indian Navy for propelling the SNF (Rajput) class of missile ships.
India is aiming to achieve selfreliance in this critical technology of Gas Turbines for ship propulsion.
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Let me see–if the Kevari is fine then is is it not being fitted on the LCA for which it was designed. What compels the IAF not to use its own engine and buy GE 404s–which by the way are not compatibale with the frame of the LCA.
Your story is dated and a year old. Please submit current information if you want to refute an article. We have already discussed this in several articles based on Janes Defense Weekly and other commentators.
http://rupeenews.com/2009/08/03/indian-tejas-light-combat-aircraft-lca-continues-to-falter-even-after-25-years/
Bharat is the only major military power of the world that has been unable to produce its own indigenous aircraft. Its Purchase Order of $10 Billion for foreign planes is an admission of its failure to create local planes. The legendry incompetence of the Indian Department of Defense has led to many fiascos like the LCA which has been in design for the past 25 years. Even if the new GE engines can replace the failed Kevari engines, the plane is 1980s vintage and has no military value. The Tejas can is unable to replace Bharat’s aging fleet of Flying Coffins (the arcane Russian Migs that cannot defy gravity in Bharat).
Tejas is a tailless single-engine supersonic fighter with delta wings—shaped like a triangle—which uses fly-by-wire technology that enables pilots to control the plane electronically through on-board computers.
The plane is undergoing development trials with a GE 404 engine, but this falls short of the thrust it requires in operational conditions. Live Mint
The Tejas’s current GE F404-IN20 falls short of delivering the 20,000lb (90kN) output required to meet the operational requirements of the Indian air force. The service recently rejected a proposal under which a Western supplier would have helped complete the development of the Gas Turbine Research Establishment’s indigenous Kaveri. Flights Global
NEW DELHI: India’s quest to develop its own multi-role supersonic fighter, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), continues to falter even after 25 years. Its heart also needs a foreign transplant surgery now to function properly.
The defence ministry has asked two leading aeroengine manufacturers, General Electric (US) and Eurojet Turbo GmbH, to submit their bids within three months to supply 99 engines, with an option for 49 more, for the Mark-II version of Tejas.
With GE F-414 INS5 and EJ-200 being the engines in contention, eight will be bought off-the-shelf, while the other 91 will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology in an estimated $600 million contract.
This comes after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster even after two decades of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore. While the first 20 Tejas will be powered by GE-404 engines, the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the new more powerful engines.
Sounding the death knell for Kaveri, IAF has shot down the offer of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to co-develop and co-produce the “90kN thrust class of upgraded Kaveri engine” with French company Snecma to meet Tejas’ operational requirements, defence minister A K Antony told Parliament on Monday.
DRDO contended the modified Kaveri engine would provide “comparable thrust throughout the flight envelope of Tejas”. Moreover, it would require minimum changes in airframe to integrate this engine without affecting the weight and configuration of the single-seater fighter.
“IAF, however, has suggested a proven engine that is already in production and flight-worthy for meeting immediate requirements. The RFP (request for proposal) has been issued to reputed engine manufacturers,” said Antony. Times of India. ‘Indigenous’ Tejas fighter to get ‘foreign’ engines for power Rajat Pandit , TNN 4 August 2009, 04:00am IST. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Indigenous-Tejas-fighter-to-get-foreign-engines-for-power/articleshow/4853479.cms
So let me see the Kevari developed for the LCA an aircarft is now being used to power ships!!!! Your story is a funny one and laughable!
The recent news stories on the Kaveri engine setback should prompt some introspection – Is the Tejas going the Marut way? Will it be rammed down the IAF’s throat by the Defense Research Establishment just as the Marut was nearly 40 years ago? Doing so may serve national pride but it will certainly not serve national defense.
Pressure is being brought on the IAF to commit in large numbers to the Tejas. What does the IAF really know about Tejas that will enthuse it to commit to it? The fact that it uses FBW technology? That is history…40 years old history. Besides, it is not FBW that combat pilot seek it is maneuverability that comes from it. Or better still the super maneuverability that comes from thrust vectoring and extremely high thrust to weight ratios. In addition our pilots need stealth. They do not want to be knocked out of the skies by BVR missiles that are now widely available. The Tejas has very little to offer in the areas of high thrust to weight ratios, thrust vectoring and stealth.
Clearly ADA has taken too long to develop the Tejas. A 20 years lead time to develop a fighter aircraft is unrealistic. I have seen attempts to refute this contention through suggestions that the F-22 Raptor too has not yet been inducted in large numbers by the USAF despite having taken to the skies over a decade back. However, such suggestions are misleading. Delay in the induction of the Raptor are due to the fact that the US Congress is not yet convinced that the threat that the Raptor is designed to address really exists. In the case of the IAF, the threat that the LCA was conceived to address existed right through the 80s and 90s. However, the LCA remained on the drawing boards and consequently the threat was never addressed. Five years from now, if the LCA is indeed available for induction, the type of threat that the IAF will face is not something that the Tejas was conceived to address. Times of India. ‘Indigenous’ Tejas fighter to get ‘foreign’ engines for power Rajat Pandit , TNN 4 August 2009, 04:00am IST. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Indigenous-Tejas-fighter-to-get-foreign-engines-for-power/articleshow/4853479.cms
The Kevari has been scrapped.–some wont admit it!
Dear Moin
You know most of things but dot admit because of some interest. Kaveri engine is in development hence it is not being used . like your FC17 ( CHina fighter) Frame and aviation is based on russian design and Engin is being procure from Ukaraine . China is not able to make to fighter engine . India is developing Fighter engine for very long ( SNECM A TOOK 10 yres to develope Fght Engine) and naval version of Kaveri engine has almost complted.
I am worried why you are more worried about it , we should worry rather tahn you . Single crystal blade teck ahs been developed .many more thing , We criticise the project when it cost more or there is dealy hence people involve understand the garvity.
Kavery Engine is gone for flight testing of high altitude again and result will be out this qurter of year. Because tajas frame avionics , missiles are ready hence they need egine leke what chinese has procured from Ukarine in the same way India has chosen GE 404.
Once Kaveri will be ready it will used , this program cannot be sheleved as INdia has develope many tecknlogy indigenously which other antion cannot transfer.
On the same platform GTRE and Snecma will sign joint developement engine which will have more power than old Kavery engine . India is able to collaborate and develope New engine only on the basis of what it learned and developed in Kaver Project.
Other Magzine are wary of third world developing 4th generation Engine . Much criticism in India has been bcz of delay and stubborness of DRDO to develope alone . Now they have corected by hiring consultant where the are in problem.
this article tells what India has acheived
KAVERI
Kaveri Engine is a technologically complex and vital system for the LCA as well as its future variants. It incorporates state-of-the-art technologies and provides the required thrust for indigenous competence in this critical area.
Kaveri Engine – The Power Plant for LCA
With three decades of rich experience in the field of aerogas turbine engines. DRDO has designed and developed the contemporary high performance bypass military engine christened as Kaveri. Four prototypes of Kaveri engine and two prototypes of Kabini engine (Kaveri core) have been assembled and are undergoing extensive ground testing. Kaveri engine is a two-spool bypass turbofan engine having three stages of transonic low pressure compressor driven by a single-stage low pressure turbine. The core engine consists of six-stage transonic compressor driven by single-stage cooled high pressure turbine. The engine is provided with a compact annular combustor with airblast atomisers. The aerothermodynamic and mechanical designs of engine components have been evolved using many in-house and commercially developed software for solid and fluid mechanics.
Kaveri three-stage transonic fan, designed for good stall margin and bird strike capability, handles an air mass flow of 78 kg/s and develops a pressure Combustion Chamber Liner ratio of 3.4. The six-stage variable capacity transonic compressor of Kaveri develops a pressure ratio of 6.4. The variable schedule of inlet guide vanes and two rows of stator is through FADEC control system to open the stator blades in a predetermined manner. High intensity low UD ratio annular combustor of Kaveri engine incorporates air blast injection of fuel for uniform outlet temperature profile and reduced
carbon emission.
Kaveri high pressure turbine is provided with an efficient cooling design incorporating augmented convection-cum-film cooling for the vanes and combination cooling for the rotor blade to handle up to 1700 K turbine entry temperature. Kabini engine comprising high pressure compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine has undergone high altitude test at facilities abroad successfully demonstrating the flat rating concept of Kaveri engine assembly and in particular the combustor high altitude ignition and stability performances.
Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for Indian environment. The engine is a variable cycle-flat-rated engine in which the thrust drop due to high ambient, forward speed is well compensated by the increased turbine entry temperature at the spool Kabini altitude test speed. This concept has been already demonstrated with high temperature and pressure condition in DRDO’s High Mach Facility. Kaveri engine is controlled by Kaveri full authority digital control unit {KADECU), which has been developed and successfully demonstrated at DRDO’s test bed.
Kaveri-Special Characteristics
Air-mass flow : 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio : 0.16
Overall pressure ratio : 21.5
Turbine entry temperature : 1487-1700 K
Maximum dry thrust : 52 kN (5302 kg)
Maximum dry SFC : 0.78 kg/hr/kg
After burner maximum power thrust : 81 kN (8260 kg)
After burner maximum power SFC : 2.03 kg/hr/kg
Thrust-to-weight ratio : 7.8
Application : Indian LCA
Now Read Wickepaedia verson : It has given balanced criticism—–It has inclded our failure as well acheivements
——————–[edit] Current status
The Kaveri is still in development, and reports indicate that it will be ready to fly by 2009. Testing and certification for use on the Tejas is expected to take some more time after that. Till then, the first two squadrons of Tejas will be powered by the GE404 engine.
Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister M Natarajan said nearly 90 to 93 per cent of the expected performance had been realised and the government had recently floated an expression of interest to seek partners to move the programme further[7]
DRDO has reportedly been able to develop single crystal blades, which represent a major technological achievement for engine development. Production and integrating this technology into the engine is expected to take some more time.
Kaveri has already undergone 1,700 hours of tests and has been sent twice to Russia to undergo high-altitude tests for which India has no facility. The engine is also being tested to power the next generation of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.[8]
In September 2008, it was announced that the Kaveri would not be ready in time for the Tejas, and that an in-production powerplant would have to selected.[9] Development of the Kaveri by the GTRE would continue for other future applications.
It was announced in November 2008 that the Kaveri engine will be installed on LCA by December 2009,[10] apparently for tests only.[citation needed] On 28th nov 2009 a top DRDO official said kaveri engine would be ready for Tejas by march-april 2010
[edit] Development costs
Development of the Kaveri engine was projected in 1989 to cost Rs. 382.81 crores (nearly US$82 million). In Dec. 2004, it was revealed that the GTRE had spent over Rs. 1,300 crores (around US$295 million) on developing the Kaveri. Furthermore, the Cabinet Committee on Security judged that the Kaveri would not be installed on the LCA before 2012, and revised its estimate for the projected total development cost to Rs. 2,839 crores (more than US$640 million).[11] The DRDO, however, currently hopes to have the Kaveri engine ready for use on the Tejas by 2009-10.
[edit] Criticism
The Kaveri program has attracted much criticism due to its ambitious objective, protracted development time, cost and time overruns, and the DRDO’s lack of clarity and openness in admitting problems. Much of the criticism of the LCA program has been aimed at the Kaveri and Multi-Mode Radar programs.
There has been much criticism of the degree of realism in the DRDO’s planning schedules for various elements of the LCA programme, most particularly for the Kaveri development effort. France’s SNECMA, with over half a century of successful jet engine development experience, took nearly 13 years to bring the Rafale fighter’s M88 engine to low-volume production after bench testing had begun; a similar timespan for the less-experienced GTRE would see Kaveri production beginning no earlier than 2009.[12]
Another criticism has been DRDO’s reluctance to admit problems in the engine and its resistance to involve foreign engine manufacturers until the problems became too large to handle.
[edit] Applications
——————————————————-
Dear MOIN
China Import Fighter Engine from Ukraine and same is being used for Pakistan which you say proudly developed by Pakistan . Even china is not able to design fighter engine –used ukarine one.
Indain naval ship of Rajput /Talwar calss and Unammaned aerial vehicle will use Kavery engine spin of tecknlogy . Fighter tarainer will also use this engine .
Such is the advantage of this program. you only criticise you cannot fool those who know the subject . (90% of people will not knowing the chinese developed FC17 fighter which is produced in Pakistan has imported Engine of Ukraine.
See the advantages dont bark on the dark side only.
You know __ SINGLE CRYSATL BLADE TECK AND ITS INTEGRATION IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST PRAT WHICH INDIA HAS DEVELOPED and mastered.
Kumar
Dear Moin Ansari
The rust bucket without reactor has gone for high sea trials.
First nuke-sub undergoes trial
New Delhi, Feb 23, DHNS:
India’s first nuclear submarine, ‘INS Arihant’, has gone to the high-seas for an extended trial, indicating that the boomer is on course to be inducted by the Navy by 2011.
One of India’s top secret defence projects for over three decades, ‘INS Arihant’ with a 80 Mwe nuclear reactor at its core, was launched in the water in last July. The sea trial, which began a few months ago, will be carried out for more than a year in different conditions to test the endurance and performance of the nuclear submarine, which is capable of staying under water for months, sources told Deccan Herald.
Once inducted, ‘INS Arihant’ will be the third leg of the nuclear triad enabling India to have retaliatory second strike capability from the sea. At the defence research and development organisation’s annual awards function attended by Defence Minister A K Antony, DRDO chief V K Saraswat mentioned ‘INS Arihant’ as a significant technology achievement.
For obvious reasons Saraswat did not mention anything about the two other nuclear submarines, which DRDO is constructing at the moment.
The hull of the second boomer is under construction at an L&T facility in Gujarat. The Visakhapatnam shipyard was recently brought under the defence ministry to secretly carry out the construction activities.
Saraswat listed out developing Agni-5 with a range of 5,000 km, unmanned combat aerial vehicle, indigenous airborne early warning and control system and automatic under-ground and under-water vehicles as some of the key future challenges. Antony asked the DRDO to reduce long gestation period and cut down on time and cost overrun. “It is high time that DRDO shed its reticence in working in tandem with the private industry. We need the maximum possible synergy between various production agencies,” he added.
Where is the news in this. This has been discussed at length. The Submarine does not have a nuclear plant on board, and does not have any other power source either. The sea trials are of the empty hull–which will have to be ripped apart and the nuclear palnt installed into it–a very silly way of doing things which is not world class.
Multiple sources from Bharat shed light on this issue–and we of course published them.
There is no plane called the FC17. Sorry. You have no clue about JF-17 Thunders as you have an inablity to read the facts. All this has already been published. Only a few countries make the engines. Even Bharat’s planes have foreign engines. Bharat will put GE engines on the LCA–GE is a US company.
The original JF-17 Thunderd had the Russian (not Ukraine engines). However the later version of the planes have the Chinese and Pakistani jointly developed engines. The most current versions are under construction and we will not comment on those.
Kevari is a failure and has been dumped. The use of a fighter plane engine in the sea is hillarious.
Don’t know what Bharat has masterd, but it is not good enough to be put on the LCA–which has been in development for 20 years–and no test flights have been scheduled
You can’t even cut and paste properly–its not worth a hill of beans. When you cut and paste–read what you pasted.
You just proved out point.
“There has been much criticism of the degree of realism in the DRDO’s planning schedules for various elements of the LCA programme, most particularly for the Kaveri development effort. France’s SNECMA, with over half a century of successful jet engine development experience, took nearly 13 years to bring the Rafale fighter’s M88 engine to low-volume production after bench testing had begun; a similar timespan for the less-experienced GTRE would see Kaveri production beginning no earlier than 2009″
Kevari has been a total abject failure. We publised Times of India articles. You could not refute them You then publish some dated material from some propoganda rag and try to pawn it off as news. Even your current source lists 2009 as the date of production–and surely that did not happen. SNECMA is French. Please do not try to paly journalist–you can’t produce anything credible.
Wiki is not an authentic source and not accepted as a source even for KG children in the USA.
Here is the Indian Defense Journal on the Kevari–writing its obituary:
India’s gas turbine research establishment will partner French company Snecma SA to build engines for Tejas, the country’s light combat aircraft, after efforts by the defence lab to develop an engine on its own faltered.
Snecma, a unit of Safran Group and earlier known as Société Nationale d’Étude et de Construction de Moteurs d’Aviation, which won a race against Russia’s Saturn NPO OAO to co-develop the Tejas engine, would take at least four years to build and certify the engine before it is put in the home-grown fighter. The technology would then be transferred to India’s military aeroplane maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, or HAL, to make the engines locally.
“We don’t have the time now for the Kaveri to fully mature. In the co-development with Snecma, our R&D (work) also goes in,” said T. Mohana Rao, director of gas turbine research establishment, or GTRE. GTRE has spent nearly Rs1,900 crore of the Rs2,800 crore that was sanctioned since an engine project Kaveri, named after the river in southern India, began in 1989.
After nearly two decades of development, Kaveri is overweight by around 150kg and cannot provide sufficient thrust from its core engine, required to power the fighter. A core—compressor, combustor and high-pressure turbine—is the heart of any jet engine. Air is compressed and mixed with fuel to drive turbines and create thrust. “It would have taken another five to six years or more (for Kaveri) to achieve (the full performance),” said Rao. “We firmed the partner, so IAF need not wait longer.”
GTRE will open the commercial bid of Snecma and freeze the project cost once it finalizes with the Indian Air Force, or IAF, the so-called air staff requirements, which are the standards for the engine. Vincent Chappard, a Snecma spokesman in France, said he could not immediately confirm the development. Designing jet engines is complex and the technology, restricted. Only a handful of countries and firms such as General Electric Co., United Technologies Corp., Safran Group of France, Russia’s Saturn NPO, and Rolls-Royce Plc. have been able to dominate the market, globally.
India, which saw its indigenous fighter HF Marut, built in the 1960s, fail due to lack of a powerful engine that was caused by technology denials from the West, felt a need for a home-grown engine when it began the Tejas fighter programme in the mid-1980s. The country’s Defence Research and Development Organisation, or DRDO, which anchors both fighter and engine development programmes, chose to fly Tejas with an General Electric engine, as any aircraft under development is flown with an engine that is already proven.
Tejas is a single-engine supersonic fighter with delta wings and no tail, and uses fly-by-wire technology that enables a pilot to control the plane electronically through on-board computers. Tejas, which in Sanskrit means radiance, flew for the first time in January 2001 and is currently undergoing development trials. Since then, test pilots have flown 912 sorties on nine Tejas aircraft, including a production standard version that reached supersonic speed on its first flight on 16 June. Now, Snecma will bring in the core called “Eco” for the new engine, and integrate it with systems developed for Kaveri.
Analysts say global firms which denied India the same technology a few years ago, are sharing it now to tap into India’s growing economy, and the country should not hesitate in partnering with them.
“At some point of time, we need our own engine. This is a good development,” said Philip Rajkumar, a former head of the light combat aircraft programme and author of The Tejas Story, a book on the aeroplane’s development.
Meanwhile, the Aeronautical Development Agency, the aeroplane design lab of DRDO, has invited General Electric and Eurojet Turbo GmbH, a German engine maker in which Rolls-Royce has a stake, for higher-powered engines that would be modified for the Indian fighter, but has not settled on the vendor. IAF has insisted new planes other than the initial requirement of 48 Tejas fighters should have a higher-powered engine.http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3942
This subject is now closed.
I purposely pasted criticism which is from Wickepedia and beleive in contructive criticism . If all has been well why there is such halla gulla in Demoratic press . You should have balanced picture . Criticism make you learn and correct yourself . Not like your critism which is just of no use just to defame .
You cannot force your will on Independent bodies like ARMY , Airforce who accept the thing as per their need . DRDO will develope in consultation with other firms engine . What I wanted to convey you it is arrogance of DRDO to develope alone and letting know the weaknesses is the cause of delay .
Now 100 private indutires are collaborating it will result very soon .
It is true airforce is not going to use the engine at the moment but when it will meet their standard it will be
used. Yes foreign engine is going to be used at the moment . But your and other conclusion is wrong that GTRE Kaveri has been shelved > Parallel develope ment of engine will continue
HAM HONGE KAMYAB EK DIN ; TAB TUM HONA PARESHAN .
let tell you I am very qualified person in my field you cannot think of . It is enough .
Kumar
OK great! Super if you say so Kumar. Whatever!
For the planet kevari is dead and buried.
We do not accept Wikipedia as a source. Your comment will not be published based on Wiki
Dear Moin
This is the source from I learned about rust bucket . You have taken the news from some of the Indian news papers and controversies from other defence journals . Doubt were created by peopele with mal intentions but in the end truth will prevail . It takes two or three years a nuclear submarine to be commissioned. Chinese took more than three yrs from launch to commission and trials are conducted in phases that ou know very very well . At the time of launch reactor was not working and it is later on made critical .
Following the reference for sea trials;
First nuke-sub undergoes trial
24 Feb 2010 … India’s first nuclear submarine, ‘INS Arihant’, has gone to the high-seas for an
extended trial, indicating that the boomer is on course to …
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/54473/first-nuke-sub-und… – 72k – Similar pages
You too quote Indian News paper but when they cricise and point out defect in the system and thus you choose conveniently.
I dont now how successful the trial will be but we learn from mistakes and positive acheivements to correct it and modify other submarines which are under construction.
“BUT TRUTH WILL PREVAIL”
Our repaeted efforts will be successful
Wiki is not a source, and we do not accept is as a source. Our expose based on authenticated DRDO audits, and Defense journals, clearly showed that the “Ncclear Sub” sailed without a nuclear engine or any other power source–while the Admiral in charge was bragging about how quiet the sub was. It was quiet becuase it had no engine running.
It was towed out to see. All the pictures showed that. It has no engine–the engine will be put in afterwards–which essentially means rippihng apart the entire sub (with risks and consequences) and then putting the imported nuke plant (not yet finalized) inside. Breaking a sub and then reassimbling in after “trials” is not the right way to build subs. There is exposure to moisture and hydro failure possibilities.
Once a sub is sealed, it is sealed. No navy put a sub out to sea without an engine–this is jsut PR nonsense to fool the people and put more money in the pockets of corrupt politicians.
The proof is in the puddinng. No LCA, no Kevari after 30 years of development. Still looking for GE engines which dont; fit the framwork. I am not going to waste my time on repeating the Bharati dud reports (From Bharati media)
Dear Moin
Good luck to you
You should know Chinese Nuclear sub was also toed during trials .
No argument time will tell the truth . India is democratic country with free press no body can hide the truth very long . I have read reactor may be put later on also as it was done in Chinese case.
Auditor is independent body govt. has no control and can audit almost anything ecept one or two things .
It is not like china or other bananarepublic where these matter is away from the perview of audit . Open society discuss each and every thing.
Kumar
Chiniese subs were not tried without engines. No world navy has ever done that. The Bharati Nuclear Sub is just a PR exercise. It may never see the the light of day!
A “Free society that wasted $3 billion on a ship is not really free–it is under the thumb of the military Industrail complex of Delhi–with 33 families fueling and getting profit from all the growth in the last decade. There is not trickle down in Bharat. The IT industry only affect 6 million people and is only $42 billion .Forty Two billion spent over 1 Biliionn adds up to $42 per person per year—a drop in the bucket. Chinese trade surplus is $500 billion (repeat–only the surplus)–now we are tlaking–the priorities are right in Beijing. They first built a manufacturing base–then reversed engineered everything–now they are an export powerhouse.
Bharat needs viagra in the shapes of air craft carriers it canot afford, palns it cannot build and ships that it cannot test. The viagra shows a deep symtom of the maliase of Bharti society which allows its corrupt politicians to spend $3 billion on an old and obsolete Air carft carrier, but cannot spend a dime on eliminating Gahribabad. $3 billion would have transformed the slum where 70% of the people of Mumbai live–but Bharat had to waste money on an aricradft carrier that Russia had obsoleted two decades ago–and is now painting the Tri-color over the rusted ship.
Kumar: People like you will never conprehend the folly of this spending which keeps the Bharati population below Sub sharan levels and pulls all of South Asia down.
This is the craziest report and since not a single media publication will have such a vivid anti India stance, I am wondering about the source of the hatred…. we the people of India are sad over the events that separated India from Pakistan and always consider it the greatest catastrophe of all time… sad u don’t understand!
Please use your real name. You have no credibility using fake names. Fine ways of showing love for Pakistan–creating the Mukti Bahni, the TTP, and fine way of showing affection to Lanka, supporting the LTTE there. Fine way to show love to Bangladesh by creating the Rakhi Bahni and trying to absorb Muslim Bengal. Fine way to who friendship towards China by supporting Tibetan terrorists.
Please come out of dream, don’t worry about Akhand Bharat and worry about the 50 states that want nothing to do with Delhi.
sir, please talk to a naval guy. the naming traditionally happens much before commissioning..which is a length process. the engines and reactors and guns etc are fitted that point in time. before that they are tested separately. of course testing also takes place after putting thigs together. So to say the submarine has no reactor during naming is nothing new or extraordinary…as no submarine..unless wanting to be called project XX1234 till commissioning will NOT have a reactor during naming!!!
anyway..all these trinkets of glory be yours. amen
It was not the “naming”–it was the test launch that we are talking about.
Stop spreading false stories about Pakistan. Pak and bharat were never one country. Indus belongs to Pakistan, Pakistan belongs to Indus. Indus valey is Pakistani. Leave us alone. Bhartis you guys belong to ganga and brahmaputria. Stop attacking our history we have nothing in common with you. Animosity between Pak and Bharat is not 60 years old, it is thousands of year old. We were never part of any barbaric mauryans or any hindu kingdom. We have our own identity, our own history distinct from gangans. We dont have shared identity or history. Stop adding urdu words in hindi dictionaries, stop speaking our language in bolly porn. We will never be part of Bharat. Our ancestors were not hindus, they were ghauri, ghazni, babur,aurangzeb
Tasfin: Thanks for your feedback–could you kindly address the person by name so everyoneknows
and what was before ghauri and ghazni….between indus valley and muhammad bin qasim? were you hybernating in ice caves???
and urdu was created in india in mughal courts..so its actually more our language than punjab’s. in any case the rest of pakistan has their own languages like sindhi, baluch, pashto….so we will keep producing “razia sultana” in bollywood which you will smuggle in and see.
more than ganga…the vedas talk of sapta-sindhu..seven rivers..which have variously been identified around indus and mostly in present day pakistan. so of course hinduism lays claim to indus…but whats the point in talking to a person who doesn’t even know his own history.
we have read much about minorities and dalits being tortured in india. then why is the minority percentage falling in pakistan? why it has come down dradtically from the numbers they had during pakistan’s independence? do you see a similar exodus happening to pakistan? are indian muslim population coming down??
you call for maldive guys to come in and settle in pakistan? but you could not accommodate the bihari pakistanis who went to east pakistanm and fought for you in 1971. You ask bangladesh government to be humane to them..when the win-win and natural solution would have been to bring them back to west pakistan where they actually wanted to go anyway but poverty forced them to take the neaerest alternative. Have you tried to pressure your government to take these camp-people back?? This is gratitude for the people who shed blood for your country…so called ‘manzil’ of pakistan.
And what about the recent totures faced by the sikhs?? the Talibans are beheading them if they are not getting coverted. If we are so bad in handling minorities why don’t you present us with some model behaviour?? But of course you will say all these are done by RAW !!!!
Playing the numbers game again is a favorite tactic of those who wish to malign Pakistan. 5 million Muslims were hunted out from Muslim majority areas of Ferozepur, and Gurdaspur districts of East Punjab. Additionally the destruction of Hyderabad state, the reconstitution of UP and the occupation of Kashmir placed burdens on the Muslim community–in which they were forced to leave. Dozens of trains arrived in Lahore where everyone had been killed.
Hindus in Lahore, Sialkot and Peshawar who were settlers brought during the terror reign of Ranjit Singh left Pakistan. 5 million left Pakistan–there were no trains of dead bodies sent to Amritsar.
The sad aspect of Biharis is a sad chapter in the history of Pakistan. Internal politics does not allow them to return home. Rupee News wants to brought back to Pakistan. We have been writing for the repatriation for decades.
One Sikh has been killed and two rescued. Rupee News condemns the horrible interference of RAW in Pakistan. One Sikh murdered in decades in Pakistan is one too many. Pakistan has sacrificed for Khalsas and the Khalsas know the love of Pakistanis.
3000 Muslims were recently massacred in Gujarat, and 300,000 are prevented to return to their homes–refugees in their own land.
OK! If there is no point–then you can cease discussing anytime–we are not forcing you visit our site or discuss anything.
We have answered this many many times. Please read previous two or three posts. We are not going to repeat it again and again. Hinduism was consecrated during the British era–before that there was no unified Hinduism and still isn’t. The IVC was not Hindu–neither was Pakistan.
Pakistan has also produced Razia Sultana. Certainly Pornywood is not needed to preserve Muslim history. Pakistan is the successor state to the Mughal Empire, the Hyderabadi state and the Ottoman Empire–all Pakistani symbology on currency, culture reflect Mughal and Ottoman iconocology.
Pakistan preserves Mughal culture–Bharat tries to emulate the mythical Ashoka.
WHy is historical discussion being conducted under the guise of religious dogma. This is the problem with Bharatis. After two sentences on history, they begin pawning off religion under the guise of history. I could say–who cares what the religiosu text says–God is into real estate. Sapta Sindhu could be a reference to many places. Religious authorities in Bharat have alternatively described those as the Saraswati. When it was embarrassing proved that the Haraswati was in Iran–they began completing the number required under Sapta Sindu with mythical rivers that don’t exist. The mentioning of “Sapta Sindhu” in a hymn is not history and doesn’t mean that the so called “Hindus” owned the land. Mithra and Agni are also mentioned in the same hymn. Does that mean that it was Zoraster and not Hindu Gods who ruled the lands.
Dear sir….there’s nothing embarrassing in Saraswati being in Iran. For unlike Pakistanis the Iranians are proud of their Persian hertiage. The two religions share not only gods but many aspects of language and religious rituals. Of course over time Agni and Mitra lost out to new gods in India..whereas Mitra travelled west and conquesred portions of greece as Mithradetes. The Indo-Persian roots go to show that the Aryans crossed through Afganistan and Pakistan before they reached India. As they were not in much hurry to reach the ganges..much as you would loved that to happen…they destroyed others cities in their way….set up their nomadic settlements, sang and made hymns of rg veda…set up cities in afganistan like gandhar, termez. …identified religious places like hinglaj, and slowly diffused into today’s india. However much you define the kushans to be buddhists they worshipped hindu deities too…and the shahi kings of afganistan were of course hindus who set up nice ganesha temples in kabul in 5th century..which incidentally still exists. Its rather meaningless to talk about hindu sites in pakistan…they are in thousands as you must be knowing. Its not even worthwhile to debate whether mauryas were in pakiatan or not….Sandrokotas..or Chandragupta met alexander in Pakistan!!! and its the NWFP hill people who travelled with him and chanakya to besiege magadha. Chanakya..however much you dislike him, had a very long and fruitful stay in Taxila and led the first guerilla wars again Seleucus soldiers along with Chandragupta as Alexander returned.
So either the Aryans traveled through these lands..setting up their hindu cultural civilizations as they passed to India…or they suddenly popped up in Ganges in India and spread westwards and controlled Pakistan till about 10th Century. Please take your pivck..but do not get into a time-jump from 1500BC to 1000AD.
And you are ritght..Sapta Sindhu can be any set of rivers..set being important….only one or two versions include Ganga and Jamuna into these…..and even for this indianized versions…the rest of the rivers are in Pakistan. For the most scholarly ones…the rivers start with Saraswati in Iran and extend only to Pakistani rivers(!!) stopping much short of eastern ganges.
Anyway..as you say.,.the eyptians claim the pyramids..and they also do not deny their greek past under the ptolemys…..whyt this frantic desire to close eyes and deny almost 2000 years of your own history?
Have you checked the Khalsa map for Khalistan. Its so funny when you say the Sikhs want to be free from India. The khalistan map shows a large chunk of west punjab too…but of course you gently draw away from that issue
Similarly..when it was pointed out the nizam wanted to be independent you sort of let the premise go. There were three to four independence proposals, Kashmir, Hyderabad, Khalistan, and United Bengal. Independence did not come to any of these as the ecomomies of scale and geo-politics proved otherwise. But to pretend the choice of independencewas not even discussed is being historically selective.
Unfortunately nobody asked the NE states anything. But in anyway they would not have gone with pakistan…..even after spending so much money in Manipur, Mizoram, Nagaland..the states are peaceful today…possibly more than balochistan. Not much success for China or ISI there….afterall the power and pelf of indian administration proves too inviting after about two decades in the jungle
About sikhs..good that you remembered Ranjit Singh..LAhore was his capital….not easy for sikhs to forget that. The mughal culture was all but gone then..and thankfully Ranjit Singh did not oppress the muslim subjects to be Sikhs!! Difficult for khalistam to forget Lahore…anyway..best of luck for Khalistan.
So you admit there can be some shared history after all…maybe mughal. You would of course like to start from a time suitable to yours but that may not be everybody’s view.
and what would you call Razia? Sultan of Pakistan? Isn’t it incovinient that she sat in Delhi?? or was Delhi a part of “Pakistan Empire”?? Why is culture now playing a role in claiming something across today’s political border? Why can’t the same be true for Mauryas and Aryans??
About Britishers defining Hinduism….well..is there any name for Roman religion or Greek religion during their times?? Of course not..that is the inclusive nature of pantheism…difficult to handle. But only a delibertately bilnkered person will say that Athens was no way a part of Hellenic religion because such name did not exist then and after all they worshipped Athena but Sparta worshipped Apollo!!! Why not grow up a little bit and admit that the Aryan kingdoms all across todays ‘pakistan’ needed neither britisher’s nor your seal of aopproval to follow their religion….even in plural..that all converged into the aryan lifeview !!!
Dirtroad: First of all India was was the name given to people of pakistan living around river Indus by the ancient greeks.
If in any encyclopedia or history book they refer to india they mean modern day Pakistan, Indus means river. SO drop this name. You have no right to use the national identity of another country which has nothing to do with you-this is criminal.
To say every Pakistani used be an bharati/hindu thousands years or 60 years ago is like saying every russian used be an African. This is the most sickest joke i have heard of.
You have been refuted by Moin Ansari so many times but you just keep coming back to make fun of yourself.
Pakistan is always a unified country. Bharat was always a conglomerate of states ruled by barbaric religious zealots. The barbarians from Ganga have been attacking their Western neighbours for Akhand Bharat dreams right from start but they have never been
succesfull.
No one believes in fairy tales called vedas. No one has ever invaded Pakistan from East (Bharat). Pakistan has always been invaded from west not from east. We have been part of Greek, Persian, Turkic, Islamic, British but never Bharati/hindu empire.
After fall of Indus valley we became part of Persian empire, Iran and Pakistan were one country which was overrun by Alexander’s army which ruled pakistan for 4 centuries. The barbaric Mauryans kept on attacking eastern borders of seleucid empire but were never successful.
No one believes Asoka ever existed no one has ever found any coins depicting it. During Greeks rule all ECO country were united. After their fall then came Central Asian armies,
Scythians, Parthians, Kushans and then again Iranian Sassanid empire. All these years from 9th century BC to untill arrival of islam in 7th century, central asia and Pakistan were one country.
After the arrival of islam you know your history better than me so i dont need to explain what happened to you. Pakistan may have been buddhist or zoroatrian but it was never hindu. Barbarians from Ganga(Bharat) have been our enemy right from the beginning.
They have been attacking us since stone age but to no avail. Pakistan has always been the capital of central asia and soon all Central Asian countries will be one again.
Dirtiroad:
Urdu is not in anycase bharati language it belongs to mughal and now to its successor Pakistan. Bharat is not a successor state to mughal it is an accident which is quickly moving towards post mughal era.
You refer to Punjab as if Punjab rules Pakistan. You have been told pushtun abhor bharatis more than Punjabis.
Shah rukh is not pushtun. Yahya khan was an ethnic pushtun which he used to call bharatis machar.
Razia sultana is also Pakistani since she was turkic and fought for peace and equality unlike Bhartis stabing pak in back. You have no right to lay claim to the river/mountains/cities of a country that you have waged 3 wars against it.
Winston Churchil said “India is as much a country as the equator”–
Please see our response to all your points with maps.
India is a Misnomer- Indians don’t live on the river Indus–they live on the river Ganges–so they should be called Ganghians
http://rupeenews.com/moins-articles/india-is-a-misnomer-the-british-indian-empire-included-india-iraq-burma-etc/
Delhi was 80% Muslim in 1947. Of course Delhi should have been part of Pakistan. If you don’t know this obvious fact, you should learn some history. The British cheated Pakistan out of Delhi.
Pakistanis/Mughals/Seljuks/Tuks ruled all of Bharat for a thousand years. Razia Sultana was part of that heritage.
OK! You just proved our point. If Greeks were known as Hellenic, why can’t Pakistanis be known as Indus people-we believe the correct nomenclature was Meluha–the ancient Pakistanis were known as Meluhan, just like ancient Greeks were known as Macedonians or Hellenic.
The Ganges people did not live in the IVC which was urban.
Please see map of Greek empire which included Pakistan.
http://pakhub.info/images/art005pics/timurs-empire.gif
Ranjit Singh’s rule was very brutal. Actually the Badshahi Masjid was made a stable for horses. It took Pakistan twenty years to meticulously reconstruct the mosque. It has almost been totally destroyed. Emperor Jehangir had built a mausoleum for himself which was more grand than the Taj Mahal. The Sikhs took all the gold from all the Mughal buildings and put in it in the Golden Temple. Millions of Muslims were massacred during the short reign of the Sikhs–which looted Kashmir.
Today, however all Pakistanis support Khalistan
http://pakhub.info/2009/india-is-a-misnomer-by-moin-ansari/
You will really enjoy this:
http://pakhub.info/2009/hindutvas-thieves-of-history-by-robert-lindsay/
Sir:
Your basic problem is that you mix up historical events, and cannot keep the chronology straight. The entire article is about the Pakistani Civilization (aka Indus Valley Civilization).
When you bring up 5th century information it detracts from the discussion.
Buddhists don’t worship any other deities. In fact early Buddhists did not even make a statue of Buddha–that was a much later event when the Greeks came into the picture.
Pakistan fell into the Greek empire
http://pakhub.info/images/art005pics/timurs-empire.gif
The Kushan Empire was not Hindu in any sense of the word.
The Greek province of Bactria included Pakistan.
This article shows all the maps.
http://pakhub.info/2009/india-is-a-misnomer-by-moin-ansari/
Ashoka was a mythical figure, a composite king. There is no physical evidence to prove his existence, now or then. No Greek writer ever mentions the name. John Princep was the first one to come up with this historiography.
Sad….no answer to the shared cultural question of course.
Hmm….please read buddhist history to know from when they started having deities. happened fairly quickly..almost within 500 years.
Kushanas worshipped almost all principle hindu deities. please go and check a few kiushana sculptures or read the biography of kanishka
From another post/…Qandahar was Gandhara in Maha bharata. You may take off the blinkers..but then you wont
The point of this post was…if the TNT is correct and all that..please do not call upon mughals as your history as delhi belongs to us. But to say that they belong to you by virtue of culture..would also makre us claim regions where Hindu or Aryan civilization passed through, built cities, left archeological evidence, mentioned in literature etc etc etc
this guy is too good!! yahya khan who called bharatis machchar was arrested by sindhi bhutto…and bhutto gave galis to indira gandhi to a journalist and became so traumatized before shimla agrement that he called her up and asked her to lie!!! Read the life of Oriana Fallaci!!!!
Urdu remains an Indian language…but we have many languages..many cultures..many literary treasures..you can keep using it.
About Razia being Pakistani…….good luck and god bless
Moin [deragatory racist moniker deleted]
I am from Bharat.
U and ur frnds have repeated the word pakistani civilisation almost 10 times now. U call urself muslim and feel proud about a culture that had idol worship( though i have no problem with any human being doing so irrespective of faith, but is greatly contradicts ur rhetoric), had a male god, a female mother goddess, in essence multiude of GODS. It is Sindhu civilisation (not Indus), and is neither Indian nor Pakistani. It belonged to those people who lived around 8000-3000 years back. They are long dead and gone, and what you have today may be a small populations of their descendents throughout the subcontinent, asia and even upto Europe with highly adapted, diluted versions of earlier customs and traditions. Times change and so do people to survive. There is no Sindhu civilisation today. We have today 2 geographic entities named Pakistan and Bharat on the same land. Today it is Bharat and pakistan and not Sindhus and non Sindhus or Indian sindhus or pakistani sindhus. Just the 2 nations who are foolishly putting their presents at peril because their past was screwed by equally great fools.
And if you are to talk about the culture and customs, the faith widely known as hinduism has so many features similar to that of the Sindhu culture.
There are 4000 articles on this site. A few are on the 7000 year old Pakistani civilization. Genetically 93% of modern Indus Pakistanis carry the same DNA as the the old Indus Pakistanis.
People up the rive on the Indus traded with people down the river. There was unity forced by geography, culture, water, and trade. The modern Indus Pakistanis speak the same language, enjoy the same culture, use the same symbols, and still cook their foods in the same tandoors. It may not be important to the rural people of the Ganges, but for the urbanized people of the Indus–the national geography is important.
Many Ganges people try to trace their roots in the Indus–which is not historically accurate. The reasons for this subterfuge is obvious—it the Ganges people want to extend their boundaries, and want to lay claim to the glories of the Indus Civilization (which they never had). The Indus people resent that and want to preserve their history, culture and national unity which has existed for more than 7000 years.
Urdu is the language of Kashmir only–the other Bharati states have all rejected it, except UP and maybe on other state.
You should read what Kissinger and Nixon said about Indira Gandhi–they both cursed and hated her.
Read Harry Falk. Kushans were Buddhists. Kanishka was in the 2nd century. Kanishka’s coins portray images of Indo-Aryan, Greek, Iranian and even Sumero-Elamite divinities. What about it?
Kanishka’s empire extended from southern Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, north of the Amu Darya in the north west to Northern India. The discussion was about the Indus Valley Civilization.
That does not mean that all Buddhist or some Buddhists worshipped Sumerian, or Greek dieties. There is not evidence to support that.
thats what we enjoy here the most. Poor chaps..Nixon had a great inferiority complex about indira..thought she looked down upon him. They took her as personal opponent..and even wanted to goad china into sending troops to indian border and sent their 7th fleet to bay of bengal. Ofcourse China looked at its border with soviet union and decided not too and the movement of 7th fleet got so much boot in US newspapers and congress that they beat a hasty retreat.
The conversation between nixon and kissinger on india and indira is known in essence to ll indians and they just love to hear about it. interesting is the frustration that crept into their tune so early.
Btw, you should read that part where kissinger admits that in two years time Bangladesh is going to be free anyway. They are not really saying that indian as pushing 80000 guys dressed as mukti-bahini in bangladesh….
and about urdu being only in kashmir……thats even a greater joke..they have their own language btw…the language in which farooq abdullah spoke in UN security council debate in mid nineties….and the POK guys were astounded!!!!
possibly we have more urdu hours programme running in all our TV channels than in pakistan. and if you leave out the urdu litwrature and songs that come out of bollywood…you will be denudinmg the language
You hedged.
Urdu is the national language of Pakistan, and the provincial language of Azad Kashmir, Gilgit Baltistan, Sindh, Punjab, Sarhad and Punjab.
Kashmir and possibly UP and maybe one other state has Urdu as a state language. The rest is all noise.
Not sure what major feat he did and when. We hear Farooq Abdullah all the time. Now let su see. Pakistan has about 80 channels. Almost all of them are in Urdu. You mean to say, that Bharat can beat that.
Why would Pakistanis and Azad Kashmiris be surprised at the language spoken in Kashmir, we hear Indian Occupied Kashmiris everyday on TV and Radio. There are live broadcasts from Srinagar on a daily basis. Every newspaper reports the news on Kashmir–always.
General Mankesahw wrote in his book that 80,000 Hindus were incorporated into the Mukti Bahni. Read it.
“Inferiority complex”? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Why would one of the most powerful man on earth–a Builderberger, and a member of the Trilateral Commission–have a complex.
Mrs Gandhi was in charge of an ant hill–a nest of terror outfits which tried to sabotage all her neighbors.
Mr. Kissinger was the virtual tsar of the US foreign policy.
Why is is that everyone hates Indians–Kenyans, Ugandans, Australians, Nepalese, Lankans, Chinese, and of course Pakistanis? Even Bangladeshis hate Bharat.
I thought you had left! Why do you keep returning with you inane dribble?
The ant hill leader did prove the bilderberger something!! a taste of defeat..to be cemented more next year with vietnam..to be entombed with watergate!!! dont think nixon was ever happy..
same with kissinger..poor chap was ridden out of town when he called himself a wild west pioneer in a fallaci interview.
About my going?? i think will keep coming back..this site is sure fun!!!
Happy to see ur promptness.
Please explain me the glories.
And how many gene samples of Sindhu occupants do you have.
I am neither descendent of Sindhu nor Ganga. What have the So Called Indusians achieved from the great heritage when they describe themselves using a name given to them by foreigners.
93%. Great joke. The sites where Sindhu civilisation existed was long abandoned by its inhabitants around 3000 years ago. They migrated to many a places. Both to east as well as west. Mixed with the inhabitants of the new lands, shared and refined informations.
The so called heritage that u r so fond to mention was not known to u until 1921 when a archaeologists excavated the site and found the present remains. There was no continuous lineage from that day to today. And indeed there is no pure race of descendents. All of the subcontinent has mixed genes who over the milenia have adapted to the climate showing corresponding features. Those in the north r fairer and those in the south r darker.
The name Sindhu civilisation is in itself a misnomer as the majority of Townships existed on the banks of the now dry Saraswathi river. it is still believed to follow a subterranean course throught the deserts of rajasthan into the Kutchch region, R.Ghaghar forming the present head water. The civilisation in its mature stage extended from Baluchistan to Western Uttar pradesh and from northern Haryana to down south in Maharashtra.The region that u mention is only part of a vast nation of yesteryears.
Come out of dreams brother. i dont fantasize abt being a descendent of Sindhu or Saraswati or Mesopotamia or Egypt. I may be or may be not.
Ur mentions of it makes others feel that u r in a habit of bathing daily at the great bath of Mohenjodaro.
Be careful not to dive.
I am alive today and am happy to see new faces, whether man, animal, plant or rock or river.
i would better not bear the weight of some old rusted crown just to satisfy some inner inferiority or superiority feeling born out what i get to see around me.
Goodday.
Since you have a monopoly on knowledge itself–it is hard to discuss anything. You keep repeating your questions which have been answered. Please read prior posts.
Much has been achieved by the Indus Pakistanis in the past 60 years–your temple indoctrinated kind cannot see or hear about it. We therefore have posted a letter which deals with your standard questions.
Here is a very partial list.
THE PAKISTANI RESILIENCE IN THE FACE OF THREATS: Mountbatten, Nehru, Indira, Kruschev, Johnson, Carter, Kissinger (Nixon), Gobachov, Clinton, Armitage (Bush), Karzia (Bush and Vajpayee/Sing) have all threatened Pakistan: The Pakistanis are used to it…so what else is new?!! Pakistan’s Nuclear Program should be seen in the backdrop of these threats.
The capacity of Pakistan to sustain some fifteen major disarticulations in polity, power, and structure and still preserve a national identity is a phenomenon one is tempted to explain by recourse to the supernatural. Pakistan which has been pummelled by external events (three wars with India, secession of Bangladesh, 3.5 million Afghan refugees) and disrupted by internal fissures (4 periods of martial law totalling 27 years and ethnic violence in Sindh) to a degree which no other state established since 1945 has suffered. In this respect it stands as an exemplar of a nation whose adversities “common sense” might suggest make its viability impossible. Yet its continued existence defies the reality induced by such speculation. The enormity and persistence of these difficulties and the resilience of the nation in absorbing and somehow surviving them must be regarded with awe if not admiration.” RALPH BRAIBANTI
Some basic facts about Pakistan. This list compiled by Fayyaz Mubeen is a bit dated and will be updated periodically:
World’s 6th largest Nation – 165.8 Million Population
Bigger than France & Germany (803,940 sq. kilometers with Kashmir)
1,046 kilometers – Coastline
World’s third largest English Speaking Nation
Five provinces (including Kashmir) + 3 territories
Modern, Progressive, and Dynamic State
World’s 5th largest democracy
One of the World’s fastest growing economy despite a one in 100 century eartqhq.uakes that destoryed an entire province/state
6th largest standing armed forces – 0.7 Million strong
300 dailies, 400 weeklies and 700 periodicals (circul. of 10 million)
GDP $128.83 Billion. (GDP rate: 7%)
7th largest pool of scientists and engineers in the World.
One of the Youngest Workforce (Average Age: 22 Years)
A Nation on the Road to Progress and Advancement
Pakistan – The Legacy of Majestic Mughal Empire
Pakistan – The Land of the Oldest Civilization – Indus Valley
Pakistan – The Land of the Oldest City of the World – Moenjodaro
Pakistan — The Land of the Mightiest Rivers in the World – Indus,
Ravi, Jehlum, Chenab, Satluj, Kabul
Pakistan – 20 spoken languages – 66 dialects
PAKISTAN – “P” from Punjab, “A” from Afghania, “K” from Kashmir,
“S” from Sindh, “TAN” from Balochistan
PAKISTAN – The word means “Land of Pure” OR “Sacred Country”
PAKISTAN – SPLENDID HISTORY
Pakistan – The Roof of the World, Five out of 14 highest peaks are
in Pakistan (K-2, Nanga Parbat, Gesherbrum I & II, Broad Peak,
Disteghil Sar, Rakapushi, Kanjut Sar, Tirich Mir, Masherbrum)
Pakistan – Some of the longest glaciers outside polar region are in Pakistan
Pakistan – The Largest Salt Deposits – Khewra Mines
Pakistan – One of the Largest reserves of Natural Gas
One of the largest Bird Sanctuaries in the World – Haleji Lake
World-class recognition in Textile, IT, Engineering Services, Automobile Parts
Road on the top of the world – Karakoram Highway (16,000 feet)
World’s one of the largest reserves of Chromium Ore
PAKISTAN – THE LAND OF BEAUTY AND MAJESTY
Pakistan – The largest explored reserves of Coal at Thar.
Pakistan – Agha Khan University, Karachi has recently been
declared as 2nd best residence medical university of theworld
Pakistan – World’s 9th Biggest Produced of Cotton
Pakistan – Largest network of water distribution canals in the world.
Pakistan – Third Largest Producer of Milk
Pakistan – Fifth Largest Producer of Dates
Pakistan World Champion in Cricket, Hockey, Squash, Wrestling, SnookerPAKISTAN – THE HEAVEN ON EARTH
6th largest standing armed forces – 0.7 Million strong
Established Nuclear Power
JF17 Thunder (equivalent to F16) completely built in Pakistan and being exported
AGOSTA 90b submarines – completely built in Pakistan
Al-Khalid Tank, completely built in Pakistan and having high
standards as other modern tanks from the developing countries.
Indigenously Developed Nuclear Weapon Carrying Missiles
Complete Aircraft Rebuilding Complex in Kamra
Indigenous Manufacturing of Pilot less Aircraft, “Uqaab”
PAKISTAN – THE MILITARY MIGHT
80 Million Cell phone Users
Karachi Stock Exchange was the world’s best performing
stock market in 2005 & 2006 with a market capitalization of
over 45 billion dollars.
The availability of natural gas in 60% of house-holds via net-work of pipes
Largest net-work of man-made irrigation water-canals in the world
Global Manpower – almost in every country
World’s Biggest Earth-filled Dam – Tarbela Dam
PAKISTAN – THE WORLD LEADER
Pakistan: Technology Power
Five of the world’s major Automobile makers are obtaining components
from Pakistan companies
This business fetched Pakistan $0.25 Billion in 2004, and will reach $2
Billion by 2010.
New emerging industries areas include, Mechatronics, Bio-Technology,
Clinical Research and Pharmaceuticals.
Carrier Air Conditioning Co, the American giant for Air Conditioning
equipment is to set-up Research and Development Center in Pakistan
Pakistan revenues from Information Technology Industry will reach $ 5
billion in the year 2010.
Many American companies have shown interest in opening software
design Centers in Pakistan.
Pakistan: Trade
Pakistan is one of the world’s largest exporter of textiles and related products such as yarn
and cotton.
Garment exports are expected to increase from the current level of $ 1.5 billion to $ 5 billion
by 2010.
Pakistan is one of the world’s largest Jewellery and precious gems exporter in the world, its
exports were worth $ 48 Million in 2007.
About 4 out of 10 precious stones sold anywhere in the world, pass through Pakistan.
Mobile phones are growing by about 1.0Million a month. Long distance rates are down by
two-thirds in five years and by 80% for data transmission
Many US and European Giants Chains sources $ 0.5 Billion worth of goods from Pakistan –
Quarter of their apparel. It is expected to increase to $ 2 Billion in the next couple of years.
The country’s foreign exchange reserves stand at an all-time high of $16 Billion.
Export of Engineering goods – 282 Million at the end of 2007
Pakistan: Self-Reliance
Pakistan is among Seven countries that launch their own satellites .
Pakistan’s PAKSAT is among the world’s largest domestic satellite communication
systems.
Pakistan is among only few countries that have ADVANCED SPACE PROGRAM.
All of its satellites were indigenously manufactured.
Pakistan is one of the countries which intends to put its national Spacecraft in Space.
Pakistan is among the few countries in the World that have built its own Nuclear
Power Station by its own indigenous technology.
Pakistan is among the few countries in the World that have built its own Training
Aircraft (Mashaq) by its own indigenous technology.
It has also prepaid millions owed to the World Bank and Asian Development Bank.
Pakistan is providing aid to 7 countries, writing-off their debt including Bosnia (20
Million US$).
Pakistan: Pharmaceuticals
The Pakistani pharmaceutical industry at $ 1.4 billion and growing
at 8% annually, is the 8th largest pharmaceutical industry in the
world, and is expected to be worth $2.0 billion by 2010.
Its exports are over $0.75 billion. Pakistan is among the top ten bulk
drug makers and at home, the local industry has edged out the Multi-
National companies.
Trade of medicinal plants has crossed $ 500M already.
There are 40 biotechnology companies in Pakistan, involved in the
development and manufacture of genomic drugs, whose business is
growing exponentially.
Pakistan: Foreign Multi-National Companies
Top 5 American employers of Pakistanis:
General Electric: : 2,600 employees
Hewlett-Packard : 1,200 employees
IBM : 2,500 employees
American Express : 1,500 employees
Dell : 2,200 employees
It is estimated that there are 80,000 IT professionals in
Pakistan as against 120,000 in Silicon Valley.
Pakistan: Technology Power
Over 50 Foreign Companies have plan to set up R&D facilities in Pakistan
in the past five years. These include GE, Bell Labs, Du Pont, Daimler
Chrysler, Eli Lilly, Intel, Monsanto, Texas Instruments, Caterpillar, Cummins,
GM, Microsoft and IBM.
Pakistan’s telecom infrastructure between Karachi, Lahore and New York,
provides one of the largest bandwidth capacity in the world.
With more than 50 universities, 15 research institutions and 20 highereducation
institutes, Pakistan produces 20,000 engineering graduates
and another 10,000 technically trained graduates every year.
Besides, another 0.1 million other graduates qualify out in Pakistan annually.
NED, UET- Lahore, NUST, GIK IST, LUMS, and FAST are among
the top universities from where many of the world’s biggest consulting
firms hire most.
Pakistani Overseas Work Force – 7.5 Million
United States of America 1.5 million
United Kingdom and Ireland 2.0 Million
Canada 500,000
Western Europe 100,000
Saudi Arabia 1,200,000
United Arab Emirates 300,000
Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen 200,000
Australia, New Zealand 30,000
Pakistanis in the USA.
Of the 1.5M Pakistanis living in the USA, 1/5th of them live in the Silicon Valley.
10% of Silicon Valley start-ups are by Pakistanis.
Pakistani students are the fifth largest in number among foreign students in USA.
Statistics that show:
5% of doctors in the USA,
6% of scientists in the USA,
9% of NASA scientists,
10% of Microsoft employees,
6% of IBM employees,
9% of INTEL scientists,
7% of XEROX employees,
… are Pakistanis
Distinguished Pakistanis
First Asian Governor General of British Common Wealth – Mohammad Ali Jinnah
Nobel Prize in Physics, 1979 – Dr. Abdus Salam
Designer and Architect of Sears Towers – Dr. Fazal ur Rahman
Twice Nominated for Nobel Prize in Chemistry – Dr. Saleem uzzaman Siddiqui
First Governor of Saudi Monetary Agency (SAMA) – Anwar Ali
Author of Constitution of Malaysia – Fazal Qader
Chief Advisor to Five Year Economic Plans, South Korea –Maboob ul Haque
Founder of Int. Center for Theoretical Physics, Trieste, Italy – Dr. Abdus Salam
World’s Top Desalination Expert – Fayyaz Muddassir Mubeen
King of Squash, President International Squash Federation – Jehangir Khan
Distinguished Pakistanis
First Commander-in-Chief of Zimbabwe Air Force – Air Chief Marshal Dawood Pota
MP in the British Parliament – Lord Nazeer Ahmed
Developer of Indigenous Nuclear Technology in Pakistan – Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan
Among Top Ten IT Investor (according to Forbes) – Asad Jamal (e-Planet)
Pakistani Executive who was awarded British OBE Award – Munawar Hamid (ICI)
Pakistani who gunned down 5 enemy aircrafts in single dog flight – Sq. Ldr. M.M. Alam
President of U.N Gen Assembly/Judge of Int. Court of Justice – Zafarullah Khan
World Squash Champions – Hashim Khan, Roshan Khan, Azam Jehangir Khan,
Mohibullah, Jehangir Khan, Jan Sher Khan, Qamar Zaman
Pakistani Admiral in British Navy – Rear Admiral Amjad Hussain (app. 15 April 2006)
Pakistani who Conquered Mount Everest –- Nazir Sabir
Distinguished Pakistanis
Founder of BCCI and FAST – Agha Hasan Abdi
Winner of King Faisal International Award – Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi
World Leader in Organic Chemistry – Dr. Attaur Rehman
Member of 2008 Nobel Peace Prize Panel with Al-Gore – Prof. Adil Najam
World’s Top Cricket Legend (499 in 1st Class/334 in Test)- Hanif Mohammad
Poet of the East, Philosopher of the Nations – Sir Mohammad Iqbal
World’s Top Hockey Legends – Islahuddin, Rashid Jr., Samiullah,
World’ Youngest Certified Microsoft Expert – Arfa Karim
Princess of Jordan – Princess Sarwat (Wife of Prince Hasan)
Pakistani who Conquered K-2 Second Highest Peak –- Aman Ashraf
Distinguished Pakistanis
Author of United Nations Human Charter – Ghullam Ali Allana
Nominee for 2009 Nobel Peach Prize – Abdus Sattar Eidhi
Architect of Saudi Desalination Program – Arshad Hussain
Dean of Engineering/Jeddah University – Prof. Dr. Mohammad Ibrahim
World’s Top War Planner & Strategist – General Hameed Gul
Ruler of the State of Bhopal – Princess Abida Sultan
Designer of the Singapore Seaport – Captain Jalal
US Representative in Organization of Islamic Countries (OIC)- Sada Cumber
“Pakistan is a source of peace and stability in South Asia”
Kofi Annan, Former Secretary General, UNO
“ Pakistan is a great country with honourable people. All people round the world are proud of
Pakistan and its people”
Abdulhamid Al-Mansour, Former Director General SWCC, Saudi Arabia
“Pakistan with its highly trained technical labor force, has the where-with-all
to accomplish these tasks. Whatever is being achieved today is just the
beginning step for a national growth curve that must be goaled if Pakistan is
to be among the world’s technology leaders.”
Dr. Irving Moch, Director, AMTA and IDA
What others say about Pakistan fayyazmubeen@hotmail.com
Of course Mrs Gandhi didn’t live happily ever after either. She was cut down with a hail of bullets that wrote a “Z” on her body–affecting all Sikhs in Bharat–who now remain suspects in their own land.
Indira’s ant-hill spread terror to Pakistan, China, Lanka, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan and Maldives. The Mukti Bhani was a bunch of malcontents gatherd by Manekshaw. The Stalinist-SS Rakhi Bahni was eliminated after the Bharati puppet Mujib was killed by Bengali patriots and seuclairm was buried deep into the Bay of Bengal.
Mrs Gandhi was a colossal failure and a catastrophy for Bharat and South Asia. She and her progeny paid the price for her ill deeds. Her actions led Paksitan to go the Nuclear route and Delhi lost the moral authority on Kashmir and Khalistan, Assam, Tamil Nadu, Mizuram, Talangana–the list is long.
Kisisnger of course is a statesman and a muti-millionaire and still alive and kicking–there is no comparision between the both. Nixon too had rehalitated himslef–something which Indira could not do–after her humiliation and her brutal emergency.
“The defeat” turned out to be an ongoing nighmare for Delhi–creating the Assam republic. Bangaldesh today is freindlier with Pakistan than Delhi–and taking over Assam, and West bengal which has a huge rise in Muslim migrant populations. Withing the next 15 years West bengal will be a Muslim majority area creating Brihot Bengal again.
Kissinger still advises US leaders. Indira–well the ashes are lost too.
You are most welcome to keep visiting the site. A little more than 2 million people have visited us in the past few months. Visit our other sites too http://www.pakhistorian.com and militarystrategy.wordpress.com should be fun for you too.
Dear Moin,
You have researched a lot for India and Pakistan.
Now just go through the HDI index published by UNDP(You can always say they are also biased guys).
1. HDI Ranking Pakistan-141
India – 134
2. GDP per capita (PPP US$) Pakistan-2496
India – 2753
3. Adult literacy rate – Pakistan (54.2)
India India (61.0)
And the list goes on
Source – http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/
You can ignore the facts as the statics goes against your interest..
It you again under a different name? Displays lack of credability. Good to see you not being abusive now. How many names are you going to use? Presenting exceprts of the index is a favorite tactic for Bharatis. Responding to this flame bait we will look at exactly what you have presented.
I can also present statistics and numbers that either refute these, or show Pakistan better in many aspects. Like I said, in every human endevor, Pakistan either is better than Bharat or in the ball park–no mean accomplishment for a country which had one dilaipated jute mill, one non-wrking textile factory, and one nonfunctional university. Literacy rate of Muslims in 1947 was aournd 15%. In Pakistan it has rocketed to 65%–while it languises at 26% in Bharat.
The stats are a bit off
Pakistan has always fared better–except the war has taken its toll. After the US wthdraws, and Bharat is sequestered out of Afghanistan, the terrorism will go down, and Pakistan will regain its stride.
Table 4: Emigrants
Origin of migrants Emigration rate (%) Major continent of destination for migrants (%)
1. Antigua and Barbuda 45.3 Asia 46.6
53. Afghanistan 10.6 Asia 91.4
146. Pakistan 2.2 Asia 72.5
156. Iran (Islamic Republic of) 1.3 Northern America 39.6
169. India 0.8 Asia 72.0
180. Maldives 0.4 Asia 38.9
181. Mongolia 0.3 Europe 40.7
Table 5: Immigrants
Destination of migrants Immigrant stock (thousands) Destination of migrants Immigrants as a share of population (%) 2005
1. United States 39,266.5 1. Qatar 80.5
70. Bhutan 5.7
144. Maldives 1.1
153. Bangladesh 0.7
7. India 5,886.9 158. India 0.5
12. Pakistan 3,554.0 167. Afghanistan 0.4
Bharat is slightly worse off than Djibuti and slightly bettern than Ghana and Malawi
Table 2: Selected indicators of human poverty for India Human Poverty Index.
(HPI-1) Prob of not surviving to age 40, (%) Adult illit rate, (%ages 15 & above) People not using improved water (%) Child underweight/age (% aged under 5)
1. Czech Republic (1.5) 1. Hong Kong, China (SAR) (1.4) 1. Georgia (0.0) 1. Barbados (0) 1. Croatia (1)
86. Djibouti (25.6) 103. Bolivia (13.9) 118. Congo (Democratic Republic of the) (32.8) 74. Kyrgyzstan (11) 135. Yemen (46)
87. Cambodia (27.7) 104. Bhutan (14.2) 119. Egypt (33.6) 75. Syrian Arab Republic (11) 136. Timor-Leste (46)
88. India (28.0) 105. India (15.5) 120. India (34.0) 76. India (11) 137. India (46)
The GDI compared to the HDI – a measure of gender disparity
GDI as % of HDI Life expectancy at birth
(years)
2004 Adult literacy rate
(% ages 15 and older)
2004 Combined primary, secondary and tertiary gross enrolment ratio
2004
Female as % male Female as % male Female as % male
1. Mongolia (100.0%) 1. Russian Federation (121.7%) 1. Lesotho (122.5%) 1. Cuba (121.0%)
137. United Arab Emirates (97.2%) 151. Côte d’Ivoire (104.7%) 121. Sudan (72.8%) 140. Senegal (90.0%)
138. Sierra Leone (97.1%) 152. Malta (104.7%) 122. Guinea-Bissau (72.5%) 141. Sudan (89.3%)
139. India (97.1%) 153. India (104.7%) 123. India (70.9%) 142. India (89.3%)
140. Sudan (97.0%) 154. Africa (104.4%) 124. Eritrea (69.6%) 143. Burundi (89.3%)
You are not fair true criticism you delete
Kumar
Mr. Kumar:
We encourage comments from our regular readers.
However we publish comments–not articles in the comments section. If you want an original non-rhetorical article published on Rupee News, let us know and if meets our standards, we will publish it.
Please keep your comments brief and to the point–properly formatted.
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Hey its really amazing to write in favoring India , because India always been pure, non violent and self explainer country. And about Sadhus………….lolz they are part of Great Hindu Religion like Maula and Kaji in Islam. They all Sadhus are not at all part of great Indian economy system. Have you ever heared Swami Vivekananda and Osho. They were same sadhus and they have surprised the world by their deep knowledge about Life and God. This sadhus dont believe in Exposition just they want to please God by their Prayers and Helping hands but You Pakistani who have never had pity for Any natural elements and human sentiments can never understand. Look Lie and False doesnt have much life so Pakistan now covered by China America and India (and ya Taliban and Terrorists). So I dont think Pakistan existence after 2 years. So ultimately all stories gonna be die for “Making your country pride for Fake and wrong values.”
seriously BIG Joke and Laugh at this Pakistani Nonsense and over exaggeration. Mohe jo Daro and Pakistani Civilization. Do they know there is one state named Sindhu which is similar as Hindu. Hindu Name came after world Sindhu. Hey Pakistan came into existence in 1947 long before that there were Hindu Religion in All province of Pakistan and till Iran and Iraq. Dont forget this Indus civilazation is before Birth of Islam So definitely its joke if you say pakistan was exist before 3000 years, So freak Pakistan. Pakistan has very less time to go for enjoying their country. Now soon Pakistan will be over taken by China.
Ravi
Your knolwedge about Islam is pathatically dismal. Islam started with Adam. Moses and Abrham were Muslims.
There was Sindh and then there was Hindh. The Indus Valley was not Hindu in any sense of the word. The word Hindu was used by Arabs to describe those who lived beyond the Sindh river.
Pakistan existed 5000 years ago as Melhulla–when Bharat was jungle with hunter gatherer activity.
Inability to read is a serious impediment. If you cannot read ask someone to read the article to you–then come back and add to your comment.
Right now, you look like a fool
Any country that has the ante-dote for HAARP would truly be World Power.
India?………………..Not a chance. Even Russia and China is at the mercy of HAARP owners. (Astaghfirullah).
It seems to me, then, it is Only ALLAH that is really True Power.
“I (Allah) shall release upon mankind some of my servants, Whom no body will be able to fight, except Myself (Allah)…Qur’an
If Pashtun can give a run around to HAARP owners by the will of ALLAH, India is doomed…….Insha-ALLAH.
Assalamu-Elekum
@ ravisoni18…….U quacked
“India always been pure, non violent and self explainer country. And about Sadhus………….lolz they are part of Great Hindu Religion like Maula and Kaji in Islam”.
Your non-violent country killed and murdered the following:
300,000 Christians in Naga Land
250,000 Sikhs in Khalistan
90,000 + Muslims in Kashmir
Wiped out Buddhist
Wiped out Vedicist
Murdered and burnt Muslims in Gujrat
Murder 1 Million females per year at or before birth
Burn 30,000 young brides per year
Kidnap a female child one in every 45 second to be sold as child bride to an older man sometime to multiple men of same family. The husband rapes her. Husband’s brothers rapes her. Husband father rapes her.
30 Million female widows are prevented from re-marrying, but are used as prostitutes.
80,000 young Afghans girls have been kidnapped so far and are sold to Indian non-violent Brothels.
80,000 + Iraqi girls are kidnapped and sold to Indian non-violent brothels.
2/3 women in Delhi are molested.
One farmer every two minutes commits suicide due to moneylenders onslaught.
650 Million Dalits are daily de-Humanized. They can’t even report their wife rape report due to their personnel safety.
Hinduism a Great Religion?
As far as Mullah is concerned. Islam rejects Clergy or any of the sort. Qur’an is made simple to read and understand. Its an obligation of every Muslim to be a Messenger of the Last Messenger (Kalki Avtar) to mankind. His name is Muhammad (pbuh). Read your Vedas and Puranas and revert to Islam. Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in your scriptures, which your Clergy conceal.
There are no Religion except Islam. That is what all the chain of Prophets or Rishis followed.
Hinduism was never a Religion any where on Earth.
Sanatana Dharma or Vedic Dharma (Vedicism) is the proper name for Hinduism. The terms Hindu and Hinduism are misnomers, just as Mohammedan and Mohammedanism are misnomers for Muslims and Islam.
So please wake up and revert to Islam before the followers of Kalki Avatar raze you and your so called Non-Violent Country.
Assalamu-Elekum
Take a look at these please, dear editor, and publish if suitable.
http://works.bepress.com/kedar_joshi/31/
The West Should (Militarily) Invade India – Kedar Joshi
http://ssrn.com/abstract=1811008
http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/Should_India_be_invaded_by_the_West
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8725160-should-india-be-invaded-by-the-west-a-groundbreaking-debate
http://www.facebook.com/eastunleashed
Best piece of delusional comedy ever produced. Even beats the crap out of “Pakistan is 5000 years old”.
Can’t believe a premier agency like ISI is employing such low quality pseudo researchers. I hope they don’t take their own publication seriously, nobody else does. Keep writing, who knows one day they may institute a noble prize for delusional fiction. This will certainly be a top contender. Cheers
It must be nice to have a monopoly on truth and veracity. It always amazes us that denizens of the worlds largest Nehruistocracy cannot look at any other version of history, except their own. What is most astounding is the fact that that the temple indoctrination in Bharat does not allow any dissenting point of view on history, and only lets the brainwashed population to accept the temple version of events.
pak is a failed state because of people like u inhabiting it.Your obsession with your religion,coupled with anachronstic medieval mindset has led to your downfall.Though,islamic empire was extensive,its failure to inculcate a spirit of enquiry,is highly surprising.Needless to say,islam has been the greatest obstacle in this regard.The propensity on the part of ulema to use a straitjacket approach for explaining everything on the basis of koran,and to deny any other approach to reality,has led to inflexibility islam is associated with.Unless u mend your ways & mindset,u will continue to be a split personality obsessed with wishful thinking of disintegration of india,which, despite ur terrorist groups, is progressing remarkably.
My My My what big words you use said red riding hood to the wolf dressed in grannys clothing.
So by your own terms the measure of a failed state is religious extremism and success is a stable economy. By your own merit India the hub of grotesque Hindu communal violence and a stagnant economy up until 2000 was Thus a FAILED state.
Thus Pakistan whose economy has remained stable even when thrust into 2 wars with 2 superpowers remains stable. Terror in Pakistan comes from a non Pakistani non Pakthun entity with links to India and the CIA, I refer to Tereek-e-Taliban. By your own terminology Pakistan is not a failed state.
My My My what big words you use said red riding hood to the wolf dressed in grannys clothing.
So by your own terms the measure of a failed state is religious extremism and success is a stable economy. By your own merit India the hub of grotesque Hindu communal violence and a stagnant economy up until 2000 was Thus a FAILED state.
Thus Pakistan whose economy has remained stable even when thrust into 2 wars with 2 superpowers remains stable. Terror in Pakistan comes from a non Pakistani non Pakthun entity with links to India and the CIA, I refer to Tereek-e-Taliban. By your own terminology Pakistan is not a failed state.
Furthermore your trying to show yourself as being very learned but your comprehension still remains very poor, a wolf in sheepd clothing or should we say granny’s clothing.
ur reply was along the expected lines.Denial of historical facts of pre-islamic period of the subcontinent,along with projection of 7th century political ideology which took roots among the uncouth tribals of desert& fully dependent on savage muscle power rather than intellectual or spiritual awakening,as the panacea for all the problems of the world,is indeed the hallmark of ur ostrich mentality and infantile thinking.It is high time that u wake up to complexities of the world and realise that the problem lies with u &ur belief system.
So the 7th century tribals were “uncouth”. There were 10,000 able bodied men in the 7th century. How could 10,000 capture Morcoo to Indonesia? Ever think about challenging your temple indoctrination? These “uncouth” guys built the finest monumnets in Spain, and India–which are a means of millinos of Dollars in tourism for you. What do you guys do–bring down the magnificent mosques that were built.
Let me ask you what about the tribals of Bharat today as exemplified by 10 million to 60 million who show up to displya an orgy of hednoism?
Your belief system is self-evident by the facts, the way in which Buddhism was decimated, Jainism was aphyxicaited, and the poor 450 million Dalits today who live and work in lives which are worse than that the slaves in America had to endure. These Dalits write about it The Dalit Nation and Dalit Freedom network. Konch has written a book “Post Hindu Society”. Read it. It is mind boggling. Also read “Why I am not a Hindu”. It will open you eyes to what is going on around you—but you are blind to it and will never be able to see it
u are simply glossing over imperfections of islam by pointing fingers at hinduism.nevertheless the truth is that islam is as bad as,if not worse than any other religion.Its lack of any deep philosophy,coupled with simplistic and quasi military training for its followers that make them oblivious of any other ideology,has led to the world being divided into believers & kafirs with the bounden duty of the faithfuls to convert kafirs mostly by violent & inhuman means.Islam claiming to be egalitarian in approach,is beset with innumerable sectarian wars.It is indeed ironical that the only pak scientist of world class,dr.salam was not given due honours as he was a wahabi.Unless u confine ur mullhas to their religious duties & not let them make every conceivable issue a question of religion,ur future is doomed.
Despite your opinions–whihc remain subject temple indoctrinated racist bigotry—the fact remains that Islam is the fastest growing religion in America, Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe, Islam is the fastest growing religion in India, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world–three fourths of the converts are women.
This is what really bugs you! You will have to live with this relaity till your cremation.
ur argument that islam is fastest growing ? religion is unsubstantiated and untenable.By ur logic,crows should be given more primacy than peacocks.In fact, it is a tacit admission of lack of family planning in muslims.Unless u adopt a “look within attitude” and set ur house in order,by modernising ur 7th century tribal belief system,that is in consonance with other religions,u will always suffer from persecution complex and hold grudges against kafirs
Islam is the fastest growing relgion in America, in Europe, in Bharat, and in the world. Three Fourths of the converts are women.
Nothing else matters. Crows and peacocks don’t matter. Peacocks are an engendered species, so are crows.
All your words are useless. A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://laboureconomics.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/zemljevid-evrope-2015.jpg&imgrefurl=http://laboureconomics.wordpress.com/author/jurehribc/&usg=__I722BTRyUjuryp8HCRb5lsvMfEc=&h=1047&w=1130&sz=259&hl=en&start=1&sig2=dPdobZ_v353W8dhPcfXzjg&zoom=1&tbnid=RXjPaLsRq46bjM:&tbnh=147&tbnw=159&ei=HCHJTo-SDafL0QHhlaks&prev=/search%3Fhl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26imgurl%3Dhttp://www.crethiplethi.com/wp-content/uploads/eurabia4455.jpg%26imgrefurl%3Dhttp://www.crethiplethi.com/from-europe-to-eurabia/israel/2010/%26h%3D416%26w%3D460%26sz%3D53%26biw%3D1688%26bih%3D707%26tbs%3Dsimg:CAQSEglilP7L1sCOBSG4bMm_1df-EAw%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=185&vpy=176&dur=80&hovh=216&hovw=233&tx=180&ty=119&sig=110139035245866961632&page=1&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
“When its inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”
Prepare for “Post-Hindu India”
http://www.amazon.com/Post-Hindu-India-Dalit-Bahujan-Socio-Spiritual-Scientific/dp/817829902X#_
“Resistance is futile–you will be be assimialted”.
Gaurav,
Islam has the fastest reverts / converts adopting the faith across Europe and North and South America.
What are the reasons there?
Let us forget the East for a minute please explain why it is the fastest growing in the West. The largest adherents to Islam are women had they been born in India to a Hindu family they would have been killed in infancy.
Besides the influx of Muslims in greying Europe, the reversion rate is whooping 68,000 / day around the globe as per some Christian web site complaint.
Past week the drones massacred 120 innocent people in Somalia and Pakistan in two days. Then, 136,000 non-Muslim reverted to Islam, as per above complaint from Christians web site.
Gaurav is another Bijon Shah, deaf, dumb, blind and deluded by controlled Corporate media hype. He does not know that Pea Cocks landed in Afghanistan thus beautiful and handsome, while the Hindus are the Crow. Despised and Haraam.
Slow down on your key board. Some of your fingers are faster than others, thus result in in un-synchronized placement of words.
Assalamu-Elekum
the problem with believers lie in their pathological hatred of idolatory.With no image or form to concentrate or meditate upon,coupled with 7th century crude socio political beliefs, the believers have turned into perfect terror machines.In fact,islam gave the religious sanction to all vandals and thugs to engage in wanton destruction of hindu temples,and replace them with monotonous tombs and mosques.Obviously,this lack of meditation and introspection did not allow for islamic renaissance.Last but not the least,lowering the level of debate reflects ur level
Islam claims to have five pillars on which the whole edifice rests. But ,the real pillars are fear of fatwas and anti blasphemy laws enshrined in sharia.these two have prevented millions of faithfuls from leaving the dreadful and suffocating prison of islam.the day these two pillars are removed, the whole edifice of islam would crumble like nine pins.Islam, in its present form can only appeal to the crude and baser elements of the society,who often need a hate object for letting out their misdirected energies.
Your comment has nothing to do with the article at hand–it is just flame bait–which should have been deleted.
Your lack of knowledge about Islam propels you to spew racist bigotry against other relgions. Please review your own, before you attempt to understand other faiths.
What prevents Muslim Americans from leaving their faith?
You can jump up and down like a frog after rains, but please be aware of the following facts:
Islam is the fastest growing religion in America
Islams is the fastest growing religion in Europe
Islam is the fastest growing religion in Bharat
Islams is the fastest growing relgion in the world
Islam is the fastest growing relgion among African-Americans who are more than 30% Muslim–headed towards 50% Muslim
Islam is the fastest growing relgion among Hispanic-Americans
Three fourths of the reverts are women
The more you attack Islam, the more attention you give to it. The more attention you give to it, the more it grows
Now you can go back to spamming our site under different names
Bharat has most of the world’s poor living in it. I am sure they have the time to introspcet the reasons why 450 million Dalits are incarcerated in Brahman imposed slavery there.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in America
Islams is the fastest growing religion in Europe
Islam is the fastest growing religion in Bharat
Islams is the fastest growing relgion in the world
Islam is the fastest growing relgion among African-Americans who are more than 30% Muslim–headed towards 50% Muslim
Islam is the fastest growing relgion among Hispanic-Americans
Three fourths of the reverts are women
The more you attack Islam, the more attention you give to it. The more attention you give to it, the more it grows
Now you can go back to spamming our site under different names
Blasphemy Laws exist in most European countries also
Australia:
The states, the territories, and the Commonwealth of Australia are not uniform in their treatment of blasphemy. Blasphemy is an offence in some jurisdictions but is not in others.
]AustriaIn Austria, two sections of the penal code relate to blasphemy:[2]
§ 188 : Vilification of Religious Teachings
§ 189 : Disturbance of Religious Practice
DenmarkIn Denmark, Paragraph 140 of the penal code is about blasphemy.
In Finland, section 10 of chapter 17 of the Criminal Code relate to blasphemy. Unsuccessful attempts were made to rescind the section in 1914, 1917, 1965, 1970, and 1998
In Germany, blasphemy is covered by Article 166 of the Strafgesetzbuch, the German criminal law. If a deed is capable of disturbing the public peace, blasphemy is actionable. In 2006, Manfred van H. (also known as “Mahavo”) was prosecuted for blasphemy.
Greece:
Articles 198, 199, and 201 of the Greek Penal Code create offences which involve blasphemy. Article 198 “Malicious Blasphemy” provides:
1. One who publicly and maliciously and by any means blasphemes God shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than two years.
2. Except for cases under paragraph 1, one who by blasphemy publicly manifests a lack of respect for the divinity shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than three months
In Israel, blasphemy is covered by Articles 170 and 173 of the penal code
In Italy, under the article 724 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, blasphemy now is considered as an “administrative offense”
Netherlands: The Kingdom of the Netherlands prohibits blasphemy by a provision in its penal code. Article 147 punishes (by up to three months in jail or a fine of the second category (i.e. up to €3,800
There is a law against blasphemy in Norway.
Blasphemy laws in the United Kingdom were specific to blasphemy against Christianity. The last attempted prosecution under these laws was in 2007 when the fundamentalist group Christian Voice sought a private prosecution against the BBC over its broadcasting of the show Jerry Springer: The Opera (which includes a scene depicting Jesus, dressed as a baby, professing to be “a bit gay”).
…and so on and so forth….
Violence in the last Century which did not involve Muslims or Islam:
15 million killed in WW1
55 million murdered in WW2
2 million killed in Korea
1 million killed in Vietnam
The Crusades killed millions, they massacred milions during colonizatoin, totally obliterated the native populations of North America, South America, Australia, New Zeland, Caribbean etc
Lets see what we can find in Hinuism: They enslaved the Dasyus, who are indentured today as Dalit. Hindusim sanctions their murder and rape.
330 million killed in the Mahaharta wars (I didnt make sense of the numbers, we simply report them as described in the Gita). Millions killed in the Kuara Panda wars.
Bhramanism decimated Jainism in the place of its birth and tried to take over Jain philosposhies as Hindu. Jians don’t accpt this.
Brhamanism destroyed Buddhism in the palce of its birth –and then attempted to incorporate it within its own. Buddhists don’t accpet this and refuse to be called Hindus.
Brahmanism sailed to Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia in the 12th and 13th centuries in purusit of Buddhism and tried to elimiante Buddhists there. They were defeated and Buddhists thrive there today.
@ gaurav: It is ironic you allege Islam has 7th century crude socio political beliefs and hate Idol worship. So is written in Hindu scriptures that the Creator does not have any image and there is nothing like him.
The Hindu Pundits and Scholars agree that Vedas and other Hindu scriptures prohibit idol worship, but initially because the mind may not be mature, an idol is required for concentration while worshipping. After the mind reaches higher consciousness, the idol is not required for concentration.
Muslims have reached the higher level of consciousness. If an idol is required for concentration only in the initial stages and not later on when the mind reaches higher consciousness then I would like to say the Muslims have already reached the state of higher consciousness because when we worship Allah (swt) we do not require any idol or statue.
A Swami in IRF said that when our child asks us, “Why does the sky thunder?”, we reply that “aaee ma chakki pees rahi hai”, the grandmother is grinding flour in the heaven; because he is too young to understand. Similarly in the initial stages people require an idol for concentration.
So this tell us that the Hindus are of low consciousness as compare to Muslims. In other words, they still follow the ancient BC Pagan religion of old as was followed by Egyptian, Sumerian and Babylonian.
Hinduism is commonly perceived as a polytheistic religion. Indeed, most Hindus would attest to this, by professing belief in multiple Gods. While some Hindus believe in the existence of three gods, some believe in thousands of gods, and some others in 330 million Gods. However, learned Hindus, who are well versed in their scriptures, insist that a Hindu should believe in and worship only one God.
The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim perception of God is the common Hindus’ belief in the philosophy of Pantheism. Pantheism considers everything, living and non-living, to be Divine and Sacred. The common Hindu, therefore, considers everything as God. He considers the trees as God, the sun as God, the moon as God, the monkey as God, the snake as God and even human beings as manifestations of God!
Islam, on the contrary, exhorts man to consider himself and his surroundings as examples of Divine Creation rather than as divinity itself. Muslims therefore believe that everything is God’s i.e. the word ‘God’ with an apostrophe ‘s’. In other words the Muslims believe that everything belongs to God. The trees belong to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, the monkey belongs to God, the snake belongs to God, the human beings belong to God and everything in this universe belongs to God.
Thus the major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim beliefs is the difference of the apostrophe ‘s’. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God’s.
Consider the following verse from the Gita:
“Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.”
[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]
The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.
“Ekam evadvitiyam”
“He is One only without a second.”
[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]
“Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.”
“Of Him there are neither parents nor lord.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]
“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]
The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:
“Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam.”
“His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]
Above verse 4:20 was confirmed when Moses went up on Jabl-Al-Musa to converse with GOD, he was partially blinded and his soul left his body. The mountain top was burned as is evident even today if watched or observed by Google Earth.
The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:
“na tasya pratima asti
“There is no image of Him.”
[Yajurveda 32:3]
“shudhama poapvidham”
“He is bodyless and pure.”
[Yajurveda 40:8]
“Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste”
“They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements” (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). “They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti.”
[Yajurveda 40:9]
Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.
The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:
“Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander.”
[Yajurveda 40:16]
The above verses clearly defines the nature of Creator and prohibits Idol worship. These are but few of the verses just to guide you that even in Hinduism, Idol worship is completely prohibited. As for your remark>>
>>”The believers have turned into perfect terror machines”<< Is
absolutely false. The world specifically European and American Public are holding Muslim as innocent. Google 'Muslim's didn't do it" and read for yourself. All of these people are blaming MOSSAD for bringing down the 3 towers. They are blaming MOSSAD for 7/7 London bombing. They are blaming MOSSAD for Mumbai bombing. They are Blaming MOSSAD for planning Mexican Parliament Bombing. They are blaming MOSSAD for Bombing in Argentina. Israelis think that American Public are fools?…There is an up-rise currently in all cities of U S A against this carnage and theft of Trillion of Dollars by same Israelis. Unfortunately, Hindus are helping the Israelis in U S A and around the globe.
As far your allegation of Muslims destruction of Hindu temple is concerned is a complete lie. Repetition of same lie will not make it true. Gone are those days of fake holocaust and repetition of lie and cry. Today, evidence is required. That was / is also the main criteria of Islam. Provide your proof if you are truthful.
Muslims are bound by Sharia not to destroy temples where 'GOD' is mentioned. Destruction of Idol is mandated as Idol is not god.
It seems that you are the least learned in this forum. While the intellectuals, doctors, engineers and others are reverting to Islam, you on the other hand is still yelping the same old song of ignorance that was the policy of Jewish control Media. Do you not have mind of your own. Why do you have to let somebody else think for you and construct a wrong picture. I suggest stop being bigoted and do your own reading of Qura'n translation and then come foreword with a verse that verifies your allegation. If you can not come up with a verse, and I am positive you shall not, then revert to Islam. If you bull headed then at-least come to a common term between you and Muslims and that is, that you and Muslims worship but ONE GOD as prescribed by your own scriptures and Qura'n.
Assalamu-Elekum
Gaurav,
I am wondering how more shallow you can get.
I love to analyse Hindu Psycho-babble and when you scratch the surface they revel in envy, inferiority complex and inadequacy in explaining their religion.
Despite the scathing orientalist attacks spread by sword and pillar of fear – Islam remains the fastest growing religion in the most liberal part of the world and most free by this I mean The Western Hemisphere. The logic in Islam, compassion and ideals in Islam of subjectively looked into is appealing to the vast adherents in the Western Hemisphere.
it is amusing to see believers using all their intellectual prowess to defend their religion,forgetting that every religion including islam has an irrational component.For,freud claims that religion arose as a reaction to helplessness a child feels while facing the world.It is indeed paradoxical to see believers rationalising the most irrational aspect of their religion in an upfront manner,while their contributions in rational sciences are miniscule,even though they ruled a large portion of the globe.To cite an example,Akbar the great,was presented a mechanical watch by the jesuits,but it failed to arise his curiosity.Had it been otherwise,the history of the subcontinent would have been different.The point is that islam needs a Kamal Pasha for effecting a course correction lest it comes in conflict with other religions.(taking honest criticism in stride is hallmark of liberated minds,which u failed to so while deleting my observations on pak & its founding father Quaid e ajam.)
You flame bait does to need a responded to. Your tirade has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
However there are many scholars on this mailing list, and many young readers who would like to know the answers to your unfounded rhetoric. Our response is directed to our regular readers–the ones who are curious will venture out and read “History of God” by Karen Armstrong–which will give them a reading list on Islamic philosophy and rational thought. Here is a primer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuSNdlJOCw&feature=related
Al-Jazari is the best-known Islamic inventor of the Middle Ages, famous for his waterclocks and automated machines. The wonderful History of Science and Technology in Islam has articles on him as well as other subjects. A medieval manuscript of Al-Jazari’s masterwork, a book generally known in English as either Book of Knowledge of Mechanical Devices, can be perused in its entirety in flash form. It includes 174 illustrations. If you want to see working copies of his most famous automaton, the Elephant Clock, you can go either to the Ibn Battuta Mall in Dubai (Flickr pictures), the Musée d’Horlogerie du Locle in Switzerland (Cabinet of Wonders post about visiting the museum) or Institute for the History of Arab-Islamic Science in Frankfurt (article about the institute from a feature in Saudi Aramco World magazine called Rediscovering Arabic Science).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SflvgXhzu7c&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIzjKvcPRBY&feature=related
Akbar didn’t need European middle men to get his inventions–he could get them directly from Damascus, Istanbul and Cordoba. If you cannot read, watch this video about Al-Jazari’s watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxqeTJ1ZP0
During the Middle Ages the? Islamic World had a very significant impact upon Europe, which in turn cleared the way for the Renaissance and the Scientific Revolution. In the Medieval age, Islam and Muslims influenced Europe in a number of different ways. One of the most important of these subjects was Science.
Ever since Islam was born, Muslims had made immense leaps forward in the area of Science. Cities like Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo and Cordoba were the centers of civilization.? These cities were flourishing and Muslim scientists made tremendous progress in applied as well as theoretical Science and Technology. In Europe, however, the situation was much different. Europe was in the Dark Ages. It had no infrastructure or central government.
Your illiteracy about Islamic inventions is so appalling, and your bigoted racism so deep that you come across as very humorous. Your words contradict each other and your thoughts oppose your sentences. The mechanical watch that you discuss was indeed a Muslim invention also gifted to the Europeans. 14 October 1542 – 27 October 1605. At the time the Europeans had just begun to come out of the dark ages. From 711-1492 Al-Andulusia was the center of science, arts, literature, inventions, and rationale thought. Muslim rational thought as espoused by Avverrores (Ibn Rushd, and Avicenna (Ibn Sienna) was copied by European philosophers and propagated as their own. Kant and Freud indeed used entire chapters from Muslim philosophers to sell their “new” idea. Muslim Spain, Islamic Damascus and Islamic Emirate of Sicily were the progenitors of the events that occurred in Florence.
If you could ever overcome your basic prejudices you would discover the Islamic thinking and rational thought by Mu’tazilite and Averroes (Ibn Rushd). Averroes is the only Muslim in Rapahel’s “School of Athens”. Muslim philosophers like al-Jahiz, a pioneer of evolutionary thought and natural selection and Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), a pioneer of phenomenology and the philosophy of science influenced European thinking to the core. Haythem’s Hayha Bin Yaqzan was the original sotry of “Robinson Crusoe where a young boy grown up in a deserted island. Haytham describes his basic concepts, even though he has never seen civilization and discusses Islam. Ibn Haythem was great critic of Aristotelian natural philosophy and Aristotle’s concept of place (topos). Ab? Rayh?n al-B?r?n?, another critic of Aristotelian natural philosophy transformed the thinking of many European philosophers. Avicenna, another critic of Aristotelian logic, changed many displines. Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, was a pioneer of inductive logic. Ibn Khaldun, considered the father of the philosophy of history and sociology and was a pioneer of social philosophy. Iqbal’s “Reconstruction of Islamic thought” is a book worth reading, because he analysis the concepts and gives new ideas.
Akbar was beyond trinkets. He was building one of the largest empires in South Asia. He bequeathed to Jehangir the most prosperous country in the world. Jehangir was he richest man. Europeans were lined up in his court to try to trade with him. THe Mughals at the time controlled more than 50% of the trade of the world and had a large portion of the GDP of the planet. At the time poverty stricken Europeans had little to offer Jehangir.
The Mughal war rockets were formidable weapons before such rockets were used in Europe. They had bam-boo rods, a rocket-body lashed to the rod, and iron points. They were directed at the target and fired by lighting the fuse, but the trajectory was rather erratic. The use of mines and counter-mines with explosive charges of gunpowder is mentioned for the times of Akbar and Jah?ngir. Tipu SUltan also gave the Brits a run for their money by utilizing rocket technology.
The 16th century Mughals were manufacturing a diverse variety of firearms; large guns in particular, became visible in Tanjore, Dacca, Bijapur and Murshidabad. Guns made of bronze have been recovered from Calicut (1504) and Diu (1533). Gujar?t supplied Europe saltpeter for use in gunpowder warfare during the 17th century. Bengal and M?lwa participated in saltpeter production.
The Mughals used water technology in their magnificent gardens in Kashmir, and Lahore. as described in Arabic and Persian works.The advanced irrigation system which bought about economic growth and also helped in the growth of material culture. The 15th century ruler of Kashmir, Zayn-ul-Abidin introduced weavers from Central Asia. Abidin is the founder of the cashmere wool industry–now used in Scotland .
The scholar Sadiq Isfahani of Jaunpur compiled an atlas of the parts of the world which he held to be ‘suitable for human life’.[102] The 32 sheet atlas—with maps oriented towards the south as was the case with Islamic works of the era—is part of a larger scholarly work compiled by Isfahani during 1647 CE.[102] According to Joseph E. Schwartzberg (2008): ‘The largest known Indian map, depicting the former Rajput capital at Amber in remarkable house-by-house detail, measures 661 × 645 cm. (260 × 254 in., or approximately 22 × 21 ft
@ gaurav the flip flop fool: Your pathetic response is evident, not having enough materiel to respond with. Changing of subject when somebody has provided evidence from your own scriptures, that, Hindu’s Idol worship is prohibited in Hindu scriptures, while you were alleging of Muslims following 7th century religion and rebuking Idol worship.
ALLAH does not need Muslims to protect HIS DEEN, therefore your statement falls flat of Muslims defending their religion. ALLAH sent a mosquito to kill Alexandra the Greek in Iraq when he intended to invade Mecca. Like wise ALLAH sent lil birds to pelt the big army of Abraha (A materialistic greedy Brahman) from Yemen, who was envious of Mecca’s trade, but got killed during pelting.
While you could not defend the Idol worship your quote, “Freud claims that religion arose as a reaction to helplessness a child feels while facing the world”. Yet another evidence of farting away from the scene as the devil himself from battle of Badr. Did Freud defend Idol worship? If he finds religion as such then what did he find of non-nonsensical worship of animal, trees, human as god?
Yet you have not quoted a verse of Qura’n to back your allegation of Islam having irrational sciences. Akhbar has already responded to you about clocks, therefore no use to repeat. But respond to this UN-scientific nonsense in your scriptures and then compare it with 7th century Qura’n;
Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra. (Rig Ved
2/12/12)
The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)
Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms
(Atarv Ved 12/1/11)
Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)
Vedas say Sun moves around the earth on a golden chariot with his 7 horses.
As the Veds Claim that the earth is static and so they tried to prove that the sun moves around the earth. The following statement from the rig Ved tries to clarify it:
1. “Sun is full of light and knows all the human beings, so his horses take him to sky to look at the world” (Rig Ved 1/50/1)
2. “O, Bright sun, a chariot named harit with seven horses takes you to sky” (Rig Ved 1/50/8)
3. “O, man, the sun who is most attractive, takes round of the earth, on his golden chariot through the sky and removes the darkness of the earth” (Yajur Ved 33/43)
Vedas say The Bull has supported the Sky “The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 4: 30
“The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 14:5
Puranas say Earth is Flat
NARASINGA PURANA – Page 169 – Abithana Sinthamani – says that the earth is flat. Today it has been proved beyond doubt by the scientists that the earth is round.
Vishnu Purana another astrological error
VISHNU PURANA says that sun is 800,000 miles and moon is 2,200,000
miles away from the earth respectively. Astronomy has now proved that the moon is nearer to the earth, i.e. 240,000 miles and that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away from the earth.
Markandeya Purana – gives completely wrong area of the earth
MARKANDEYA PURANA says that the earth has an area of 4,000,000,000
square miles. According to astronomy, it is only 190,700,000 square miles.
Vedas / Puranas recommend looking directly into the sun with naked eye.
The Vedas and Puranas say that all Hindus must pray to the sun god SURYA, and that if you look at the sun daily every morning with your naked eyes, your sight will improve. Accordingly many Hindus practice this act of worship; but instead of their eyesight improving, India is the country that has the most blind people in the world (2.5 million blind people and 9 million with corneal blindness). There is no scientific truth in sun worship,
and on the contrary the scientist and doctors advise everyone not to look at the sun directly with the naked eye. Who is telling us the truth, the Scientists or the Hindu scriptures? You be the judge!
Vedas say cow is holy and should be worshiped.
(Brahmins add that cow dung ash has medicinal value)
The Vedas say that the cow is holy and should be worshiped. These
Brahmins also claim that cow dung ash has medicinal value. Samples sent to a leading test laboratory in West Germany have proved this to be untrue.
Mt. Meru 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest according to the Hindu Scriptures Arya texts of a comparatively late period ( 5 century AD ) still maintain a belief in the fictional Vedic Mt. Meru. It is supposed to be one hundred thousand times higher than Mt. Everest! Regarding this mountain, the Matsya Purana says,
“It [Mt Meru] is golden and shining like fire. The color of the eastern side is white like the color of Brahmans, that of the northern side is red like the that of Kshatriyas, the southern is yellow like that of Vaishyas, the western is black like the color of Sudras. It is 86000 yojana high, and 16000 of these lie in the earth. Each of the 4 sids has 34000 yojanas … There are
beautiful golden houses inhabited by spiritual beings, the Devas, by the singers the Gandharvas and their harlots the Apsaras. Also Asuas, Daityas and Rakshasas are living in it. ” — [ Matsya Pur. quoted in al-B. i.247 ]
In general, 1 yojana = 8 miles = 32000 yards and 1 kroh = 1/2 yojana [ al-B i.167 ]. Thus Mt. Meru would be 8×86,000 = 704,000 miles high. Mt.Everest, by comparison, is only 29,000 ft., or less than 6 miles, high. Hence Mt. Meru is 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest !
The Kurma Purana has this to say on this topic,
” Earth, composed of seven continents, together with the oceans extends 500,000,000 yojanas across. Holy Jambudvipa lies in the middle of all the continents; in its center is said to be lofty Mt. Meru, bright as gold. Its height is 84,000 yojanas, and it extends 16,000 yojanas below the earth; its width at the top is 32,000 yojanas, and its diameter at the base is 16,000 yojanas.”
– [ Kurma Purana, quoted in Classical, p. 52 ]
The impossibly high Mt. Meru is held to be the source of really existing rivers in India such as the Sita.
Would you call the above rational or the most stupid and false belief. What did Freud had to say about the above non-sense? What do you say about the above non-sense? So do you mind if we the Muslims laugh or chuckle about the Hindus childish belief?
Islam does not need Kemal Pasha who was a Hebrew and not Muslim. What Islam need is none of your business, but surely we Muslim knows what you stupid Hindu need.
Before you liberate Muslim’s mind, how about liberating your own mind from the above ghastly stupid non-nonsensical belief, animal, trees, human, creeping thing worship and shun the porno Temple practice freeing the innocent young Temple Dev Dasis to liberty, self respect and honor.
Any rebuttal of your own intellect?…I doubt it, go take a dip in your filthy mother Ganga and stay put.
May ALLAH guide you….Amen.
Assalamu-Elekum
The founder of Paksitan is Quaid-e-Azam and not ajam….FOOL.
the proof of pudding lies in eating as the saying goes.i am yet to come across a single path breaking discovery in basic or applied sciences,except perhaps that of dr salam in modern times.Even gen.mush was lamenting this lack of scientific temper in one of his speeches.It is indeed strange that the epitome of rationality(islam)is shaken to its core by some books or innocuous cartoons published in some remote parts.there are around 60 islamic nations and yet is difficult to find a significant industrial product from these nations.Even the guns or rdx used by islamic terrorists are manufactured in some non muslim country.The only conclusion an objective analyst can draw is too obvious,that believers are highly rational in pursuit of their religion while lethargic in doing science.The scenario would have been different had the islamic rulers not wasted their time and energy in destoying temples and converting hindus through coercion.Ur contention that the west lifted the ideas of islamic scholars is similar to what is argued by sangh here,but the fact remains that islamic civilisation failed to produce men of calibre of newton,leibnitz.gauss,riemann,planck,or einstein,despite having the highest “evolved and scientific religion” and fabulous wealth.Instead of getting touchy and starting to abuse me,u should look inward and channelise ur energies in more constructive ways.i hope i have not been too insensitive to deserve a fatwa against me.
Another flame bit from you. We dont respond to YOUR falme-baits. We respond so that others can learn from the discussion of facts.
Proof is in the pudding–you talk a lot looking down on your keyboard. Go ouside–look up…in every city of Bharat you will see the towering achievements in the Muslim civilization that you deride. Your skylines are lined with minarets and domes–reminders of the greatness of Muslim South Asia. Since you have had power in Deli, you have not crated any architectural marvels, or delightful cities.
If “proof is in the pudding” than Hindusim is the harbinger of penury and poverty on the planet. Most of the world’s poor live in Bharat–and despite meager success in the past decade it will take Bharat 300 years to extripate poverty from its lands. For the past sixty years Hindu Bharat has given the world nothing of value. its growth rate has been a meager 2% or 3%. Proof is in the pudding not false claims of inventing “zero”.
Your bigoted racism has no parallel.
If Muslims had forcibly converted the pagans to Islam your name would not have been Gaurav. The Americans did it in the USA, the Spanish Conquistadors did it in allof Latin Americaq, the Australians did it in Australia and the New Zelanders did it in New Zeland–the complete decimation of the indigenous populations of the land.
Your temple indoctrination won’t let you see beyond your narrow doctrine taught to you by the BJP.
In actual fact Newton’s three laws of motion were taken from Muslim scientists in the 16th century. If you notice, Europe was in the dark ages from 711 to the 16th century. In fact the European Renissance was fueled by the Islamic SPain, Muslim Siciy and Islamic Ottomans in the 16th century. The rich of Europe used Arab dress and Arab customs.
Even after Newton, there was tremendous progress in Muslim India—the Mughal technology was superior to the technology of the Europeans. There is a BBC documentary that compared Jehangir’s weapons systems with those of the British and found the metallurgy, shields, arrow, swords better than that of the metallurgy.In fact Tipu Sultan, if he had not been betrayed by the Marhattas would have sing-handedly defeated the British. His rocketry was unparalleled in the world.
Muslim scientists and the discovery of the three laws of motion
The first law of motion: The first law of motion in physics says that if the total powers that affect an object are zero, this object will remain motionless. Similarly, a mobile object remains with its constant speed state unless it finds any power that affects it, such as the friction powers. This was mentioned in Newton’s mathematical statement when he said “In the absence of force, a body either is at rest or moves in a straight line with constant speed”.
When it comes to Muslim scientists and their role in this field, Avicenna in his book Insinuations and Notices (Isharat wa Tanbihat) stated the same law in his own words “You know if the object is left unaffected by external influence, it remains as it is”.
It is clear that the previous statement of Avicenna regarding the first law of motion excelled that of Isaac Newton who appeared six centuries later. In this statement Avicenna asserts that the object remains at rest or at move with constant speed in a straight line unless external power influences it. That is to say that Avicenna was the first to discover the first law of motion.
Second law of motion: The second law of motion links the total powers affecting an object and the increase of its speed, which is known as speed and this speed is in proportion with the volume of the power and has its same direction.
According to Newton’s mathematical formulation, he stated that ” A body experiencing a force F experiences an acceleration a related to F by F = ma, where m is the mass of the body. Alternatively, force is proportional to the time derivative of momentum”.
When it comes to Muslims, Hebattullah bin Malaka Al-Baghdadi (480-560 A.H./ 1087-1164AD) stated in his book The Considered in Wisdom (Al-Moatabar fil Hekma) what means that ” The strongest power moves fast and takes a short time. The stronger the power, the faster the power, and the shorter the time. If the power does not decrease, the speed does not decrease, either”. In chapter fourteen entitled the Vacuum, he pointed out that “The faster the speed, the stronger the power. The stronger the power that pushes the object, the faster the speed of the object at move, and the shorter the time spent for covering the distance”. This is exactly what Newton mathematically formulated and named the second law of motion.
Third law of motion: The third law of motion means that if two objects interact, the force the first object practices on the second object is called the power of the action, which is equal to the force the second object practices on the first object, but it holds the opposite direction. This power is called “the force of the reaction”. Newton mathematically formulated this law as follows: “Every action has a reaction which is equal in magnitude and opposite in direction”.
Earlier than Newton, Abul Barakat Hebattullah bin Malaka stated in his book, The Considered in Wisdom (Al-Moatabar fil Hekma) that “In the wrestling arena, everyone has a force practiced against the other. If one of them retreated, this does not mean that his power disappears, but this retreated power still exists, because without it the second one would not need it to influence the first one”.
The same meaning has been reiterated in the writings of Imam Fakhr El-Din Al-Razi[11] in his book The Eastern Disciplines in Theology and Natural Sciences (Al-Mabaheth Al-Mashrikayyah fi Illm Al-Illaheyyat wa Al-Tabi’yyat). He pointed out that “the circle pulled by two equal forces until it stops in the middle, it is taken for granted that each forces has practiced an action that obstructs the other”.
The same concept has been asserted by Ibn Al-Hayytham in his book, The Scenes (Al-Manather). He pointed out that “The moving object is encountered by an obstruction, and if this forces remains, this moving object retreats in the opposite direction in the same speed practiced by the first object and according to the power of obstruction”.
It is vivid clear that all what has been mentioned by Muslim scientists in these texts is the origin of the third law of motion, which was formulated by Newton after he had taken its content!
[1] Heron of Alexandria: (died 150 A.D.) He was an Egyptian mathematician and engineer. He was the first one to invent the needle, a wind-generation device and a thermal-powered generator.
[2] Ali bin Abdullah Al-Difaa: Wonders of Arab and Islamic Civilization in Science, p.115.
[3] Rehab Khidr Akawi: Encyclopedia of Muslim Geniuses 3/57.
[4] See: the Arab International Encyclopedia at: http: http://www.alargam.com/general/arabsince/7.htm
[5] Will Durant: The Story of Civilization 13/186, and see Mohamed Al Sadiq Afifi: Development of Scientific Thought of Muslims P.133.
[6] Al Khazini: He is Abul Fath Abdel Rahman Al-Khazin or Al-Khazini. He was a veteran astronomer and engineer. He was a Roman pager of Ali Al-Khazin Al-Marouzi, and he was called after him. He studied the sciences of engineering and the reasonable. He classified The Balance of Wisdom (Mizan Al Hekma) and The Ephemeris (Al-Zig). See Al-Zirikli: (Al-Aalam) 3/305.
[7] Ali bin Abdullah Al-Difaa: pure Sciences in the Arab and Islamic Civilization. P.33.
[8] Pascal : Blaise Pascal (1623 – 1662AD). He was a French physicist, mathematician and philosopher.
He was renowned for his experiments on liquids in the field of physics. He was also famous for his works on the Possibility Theory. See The Greet Arab Encyclopedia.
[9] Boyle: Robert Boyle (1627 – 1691AD). He was an Irish scientist, who was considered the founder of modern chemistry. He called for the application of the experimental approach to chemistry and physics. He was best-known for his experiments on gases, which established the Boyle Law. See The Great Arab Encyclopedia.
[10] Ali bin Abdullah Al Difaa: pure Sciences in the Arab and Islamic Civilization. P.331.
[11] Fakhr Al-Din Al-Razi: He is Abdullah Mohamed bin Omar bin Al-Hassan (544-606 A.H./1150 – 1210 A.D.). He was one of great interpreters. He was well established in the quoted, the reasonable, as well as the sciences of the predecessors. He was born in Ray, and died in Harat.
He authored The keys to the Unknown (Mafatih Al-Ghaib) for the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an. See Ibn Khalkan: Deaths of the Masters (Wafiyat Al-Aayan) 4/248-252
It is well known in the east and the west that these laws had been discovered by the English scientist Isaac Newton since he published his book Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (usually called the Principia).
This fact known in the whole world and in all scientific references, including the Muslim school of course, remained till the beginning of the twentieth century when a group of contemporary physicists, most prominent among them were Professor Mostafa Nazif, Professor of Physics, Professor Galal Shawki, Professor of Mechanical Engineering, and Professor Abdullah Al-Defa’, Professor of Mathematics investigated these laws. They checked the available body of Islamic manuscripts in this field and came up with the fact that Muslim scientists were the first to discover these laws. All what Newton did was to collect what had been written on these laws and formulated them in a mathematical form.
Setting prejudice and mere theoretical speech aside, the efforts of Muslim scientists are crystal clear. They are documented in their manuscripts which had been written seven centuries before the birth of Newton. Let’s refer to these texts and judge:
VOW!!!,Some real revelation; Thanks,
Most of these stuff were located at univ of Padua. and read in arabic ( then thw world’s medium of science);Copernicus, had plagiarized ” earth revolution around son” from al tusi’s work at this univ, largest repository of arab genrated scieces;this is mentioned by Michel Morgan in his lost history.
YOU do have an amazing insight. This was new to me thanks.
Newton was actually a monotheist who rejected Trinity lock stock and barrel. He wrote a treatise called “Errors in the Christian scriptures” which is out of print and I can’t get my hands on it. In it he explained how Christianity had ventured off the beaten Path. One of Newton’s great fans was John Locke–the same John Locke that influenced Thomas Jefferson, Madison and Hamilton. All are today called “Deists”. All rejected the CHristian dogma. Jefferson wrote a Jefferson Bible, which is freely available on the internet and is given to all members of the the US Congress. The story told in that Bible about Jesus is very close to the story told in the Quran. No resurrection and no trinity and no deity status ascribed to Jesus. Jefferson owned a copy of the Quran. It was dear to him. When he lost it, he got another one. In those days, getting a copy of the Quran was a big deal.
http://www.musalmantimes.com/?p=828
Haq a Qol, Haq e Hurriah, Haq e Insaan, were taken from the Islam and implaced in the Bill of Rights.
LIncolns’s mother was a Mulengeon—a Muslim progeny of the Muslims to escaped prosecution from Spain after the inquisition of 1492.
In today’s world Newton would be called a Hanafi, or a Muslim
http://www.musalmantimes.com/2010/10/11/sir-isaac-newtons-anti-trinitarianism/
In 1690 Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727) wrote a manuscript on the corruption of the text of the New Testament concerning I John 5:7 and Timothy 3:16. It was entitled, “A Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture.” Due to the prevailing environment against criticism, he felt it unwise to profess his beliefs openly and felt that printing it in England would be too dangerous. Newton sent a copy of this manuscript to John Locke requesting him to have it translated into French for publication in France. Two years later, Newton was informed of an attempt to publish a Latin translation of it anonymously. However, Newton did not approve of its availability in Latin and persuaded Locke to take steps to prevent this publication.
Below are excerpts from “A Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture
Newton on I John 5:7
Newton states that this verse appeared for the first time in the third edition of Erasmus’s New Testament.
“When they got the Trinity; into his edition they threw by their manuscript, if they had one, as an almanac out of date. And can such shuffling dealings satisfy considering men?….It is rather a danger in religion than an advantage to make it now lean on a broken reed.
“In all the vehement universal and lasting controversy about the Trinity in Jerome’s time and both before and long enough after it, this text of the “three in heaven” was never once thought of. It is now in everybody’s mouth and accounted the main text for the business and would assuredly have been so too with them, had it been in their books.
“Let them make good sense of it who are able. For my part, I can make none. If it be said that we are not to determine what is Scripture what not by our private judgments, I confess it in places not controverted, but in disputed places I love to take up with what I can best understand. It is the temper of the hot and superstitious art of mankind in matters of religion ever to be fond of mysteries, and for that reason to like best what they understand least. Such men may use the Apostle John as they please, but I have that honour for him as to believe that he wrote good sense and therefore take that to be his which is the best.” [1]
Newton on I Timothy 3:16
“In all the times of the hot and lasting Arian controversy it never came into play….they that read “God manifested in the flesh” think it one of the most obvious and pertinent texts for the business.”
“The word Deity imports exercise of dominion over subordinate beings and the word God most frequently signifies Lord. Every lord is not God. The exercise of dominion in a spiritual being constitutes a God. If that dominion be real that being is the real God; if it be fictitious, a false God; if it be supreme, a supreme God.” [1]
Newton also wrote a discussion on two other texts that Athanasius had attempted to corrupt. This work has not been preserved. He believed that not all the books of the Scriptures have the same authority.
Issac Newton was born in Lincolnshire in 1642 and educated at Cambridge. He was elected to the Royal Society in 1672, and was a member of the Gentleman’s Club of Spalding. Newton became Warden of the Royal Mint in 1696, where he was instrumental in fixing the gold standard. Newton was elected President of the Royal Society in 1703. Sir Isaac Newton held unitarian views and was a follower of Arius.
Reference
1. A. Wallace, “Anti-Trinitarian Biographies,” Vol. III, pp. 428-439, 1850.
Other Related References
2. Alton, “Religious Opinions of Milton, Locke, and Newton,” 1833.
3. Green, “Sir Isaac Newton‘s Views,” 1871.
4. Newton, “Sir Isaac Newton Daniel,” 1922.
5. MacLachlan, “The Religious Opinions of Milton, Locke, and Newton,” 1941.
6. Channing, W.E., “The Character and Writing of Milton,” 1826.
7. M. `Ata ur-Rahim, “Jesus: A Prophet of Islam,” 1983.
Some other famous Unitarians in Christianity are: Milton (1608-1674), John Locke (1632-1704), John Biddle (1615-1662), Michael Servetus (1511-1553), Francis David (1510-1579), Lelio Francesco Maria Sozini (1525-1562), Fausto Paolo Sozini (Socianus, 1539-1604), Thomas Emlyn (1663-1741), Theophilus Lindsey (1723-1808), Joseph Priestly (1733-1804), and William Ellery Channing (1780-1842). Among the most famous early Unitarians in Christianity are: Arius (250-336 A.D.), Iranaeus (130-200), Tertullian (160-220), Origen (185-254), Diodorus, and Lucian (d. 312). Their biographies are contained in References 1 and 7.
Below is a brief account of a famous physician and a scientist, before and after Newton, who had strong religious opinion on the Trinity.
Michael Servetus (1511-1553), born in Spain, received a degree in Medicine from Toulouse in 1534. He was one of the first European to write about the principle of the circulation of the blood [see earlier work by Ibn Al-Nafis (1213-1288)]. Servetus wrote three important works: ‘The Errors of Trinity’ (1531), ‘Two Dialogues on Trinity’ (1531), and ‘The Restoration of Christianity‘. Luther publicly condemned him in 1539. Servetus followed the views held by the early apostles who belonged to the Antiochene school of Christianity, and he supervised the printing of a Bible in 1540. Servetus corresponded with Calvin for more than twenty years. As a result of bitter conflict, Calvin had him arrested in Milan, and after a quick trial Servetus was burned to the stakes. Servetus is regarded by many as the “founder of modern Unitarianism.” [7]
Theophilus Lindsey is known as the organiser of the first Unitarian congregation in England. On April 17, 1774, Benjamin Franklin and Joseph Priestly attended the first Unitarian service conducted by Lindsey in London. Jospeh Priestly is known as the discoverer of Oxygen. Priestly’s main contribution to the unitarians in England was comprehensive argument, both historical and philosophical, in support of the unity of God. Joseph Priestly produced his most important and influential work, ‘History of the Corruptions of Christianity’ in two volumes. Priestly affirmed the humanity of Jesus, but denied the immaculate conception. He also denied the validity of the doctrine of Trinity. Priestly’s house was burned by a mob and so was a hotel where the mob mistakenly thought Priestly was present. His book was publicly burned in Holland. Joseph Priestly sailed for America with Benjamin Franklin in 1794, where they opened some of the first Unitarian churches in and around Philadelphia [7].
For another perspective on Sir Isaac Newton‘s activities, visit an external link Isaac Newton.
Links from Radio Al-Islam Channel RA 200 (Real Audio Format):
RA 200.K27 Later Unitarians I – Servetus
RA 200.K28 Later Unitarians II – Francis David
RA 200.K29 Later Unitarians III – Sozini and Socianus
RA 200.K30 Later Unitarians IV – John Briddle
RA 200.K31 Later Unitarians V – Emlyn and Lindsey
RA 200.K32 Later Unitarians VI – Joseph Priestly
RA 200.K33 Later Unitarians VII: William Channing
RA 200.K22 Deification of Jesus: Its Evolution IV – Early Unitarians
RA 200.K23 Deification of Jesus: Its Evolution V – Early Unitarians (cont)
RA 200.K24 Deification of Jesus: Its Evolution VI – The Council of Nicaea (325)
RA 200.K25 Deification of Jesus: Its Evolution VII – Other Major Councils
RA 200.K26 Deification of Jesus: Its Evolution VIII – Later Councils
Full Series K: Jesus: Beloved Messenger of Allah
SIR ISAAC NEWTON ON THE BIBLE by Dr. A. Zahoor. Books and E-Books On Muslim History and Civilization
“During the 1670s, he (Newton) began a serious theological study of
the doctrine of the Trinity and came to the conclusion that it had been
foisted on the Church by Athanasius (1) in a specious bid for pagan
converts. Arius (2) had been right: Jesus Christ had certainly not been
God and those passages of the New Testament that were used to ‘prove’
the doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation were spurious.
Athanasius and his colleagues had forged them and added them to the canon of scripture, thus appealing to the base, primitive fantasies of the
masses.
“Tis the temper of the hot and superstitious part of mankind in
matters of religion ever to be fond of mysteries, and for that reason, to
like best what they understand least.”
In his book called The Philosophical Origins of Gentile Theology,
Newton argued that Noah had founded the primordial religion….that had advocated a rational worship of One God. Later generations have
corrupted this pure religion….and had fallen back into idolatry and
superstitious. Yet God had sent a succession of prophets to put them back on course. Jesus had been one of these prophets sent to call mankind back to the truth but his pure religion had been corrupted by Athanasius and his cohorts.
“This strange religion of ye West, ‘the cult of three equal Gods’- as
the abomination of desolation.” (Isaac Newton)
Sir Issac Newton was a genius in math, but also in his religious thinking. He wrote extensively against what he considered the “errors of scripture in Christianity”. Kindly refer to the article on Sir Issac Newton also (http://www.musalmantimes.com/?p=828). Your queries have already been responded to in the article.
Sir Isaac Newton wrote several articles questioning orthodox Biblical teachings and wrote books pointing out the errors in the Biblical scriptures. He was hounded by academia and discriminated against. He based his findings on logic and facts not not emotionalism and what Jefferson referred to as “superstition”. The New Testament written by Thomas Jefferson describes the real story of Jesus. It narrates the story of Jesus per the Quran. This may astonish some, but Jefferson, Hamilton, and Madison were Dietist very much influenced by John Locke and Sir Issac Newton who in turn were very much under the influence of Unitarianism and Islam.
Trinitariansim only became Christian doctrine at the Council of Nicea in 328 AD when Emperor Constantine forced it on the Christians. He persecuted the majority opinion held by Arius. This created great discontent in the Christian world, and this tsunami of discontent ultimately led to the wholesale conversion to Islam and the schism within the Christian Church.
When we visited Rome we saw the real Madonna, and Child from the Roman legend (Isis and Horus), and the Greek holy mother and child (Greek mythological character, Dionysus, as a holy child) which was adopted by Christianity. The Greek god-man Orpheus-Dionysus, who rose from the dead in that culture’s mythology.
We wrote something similar to your narrative–which describes the context of Christianity–hinted upon by Dan Brown–but described at length by Michael Baigent in “The Jesus Papers” (the book on which Brown based his novel). You will enjoy our article Prophet “Muhammad in the Christian Context”
http://rupeenews.com/about/muhammad-in-the-christian-context-concentrating-on-the-commonalities-between-the-abrahamic-faiths-the-arian-influences-on-islam-the-muslim-influences-on-martin-luther-locke-and-jefferson/
The crucifixion and resurrection story is a an old Roman and Greek and Egyptian tale of Osiris and his wife Isis.
If one takes a scientific approach we get different results to the story of Jesus. It is a fact that Jesus did not die on the cross: Gunnar Samuelsson: http://www.musalmantimes.com/?p=256
The many different accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus find little support in historical sources.
The reason is that antique sources generally lack descriptions of crucifixions, says Gunnar Samuelsson, University of Gothenburg, who recently finished his doctoral thesis on the topic.
Gunnar Samuelsson — a theologian at the University of Gothenburg and author of a 400-page thesis on crucifixion in antiquity — doesn’t doubt that Jesus died on Calvary hill.
But he argues that the New Testament is in fact far more ambiguous about the exact method of the Messiah’s execution than many Christians are aware.
The only reference is that Jesus bore a “staurus” towards Golgata. This is not necessarily a cross according to Samuelsson but can also mean a “pole” or variety of other things.
Gunnar Samuelsson is very similar to the story told in the Quran about Jesus
@ akhbar: Terttulian was a Berber Monk that followed Pagan Egyptian Mystery Trinity religion where Osiris was the godhead that had similar biography as that of Jesus (a.s)as presented by Paul (Saul of Tarsus) the looser.
After his (Osiris) death on cross, Horus (son of Osiris and Isis) married his mother Isis and other two wives. Horus had a duel with his brother Set and lost an eye. It is believed that Horus in chains in cave somewhere in England had one to one conversation with some of the Sahabas where he asked questions regarding apostle Muhammad (pbuh). It could be a myth and there is only one Hadith that verify it.
Your assertion that Tertullian was an Unitarian is incorrect. Tertullian has been called “the father of Latin Christianity” and “the founder of Western theology.” Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity, and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology.
When Tertullian came across the Gospel as presented by Paul, he had no objection in replacing Osiris godhead with that of Jesus. Like wise the Europeans had no objection in replacing Zeus godhead with Jesus (a.s) on account of having similar biography, provided the Sabbath is changed from Saturday to Sunday.
This is indeed very juicy subject, would like to write more but am afraid of ALLAH (SWT), lest HE ruin my fingers.
Assalamu-Elekum
so newton was almost a beliver and merely formulated three laws in mathematical terms which were already known to islamists.I should thank u for excluding einstein and for not claiming that koran already has all modern theories.It is the mathematical formulation that matters and the tool used in this formulation i.e.Calculus (invented by newton and leibnitz) has changed the world far more drastically than ur 7th century belief system backed by the army of faithfuls could have ever hoped to. The truth remains that islamic civilisation has hopelessly lost the race to the west.The strategy of looking back to the golden era of islam is not a sign of resurgence but an indicator of deep anguish,and inferiority complex vis-a-vis west.The islamic world should take a cue from japan.china and even india to devote more energy in the field of science&technology.Merely expressing supremacy of islam over other religions is not going to earn them any respect.The madarrsas should,as first measure,stop churning out gun wielding and koran reciting mullahs.Otherwise the world famous maxim “islam is not a terrorist religion but all terrorists are islamic” will refuse to die down.
Your usage of the word “Islamist” is inappropriate to describe some of the greatest inventors of our time. It is very obvious, the Europeans were in the dark ages, Muslims were ascendant in Europe (Spain, Southern Italy, Istanbul and Easter Europe). It is but obvious that all this knowledge was being transferred from Muslim writers to others. This is the way the civilization works.
The competition between religions is about saving souls, not who has the most toys. If the race is for souls–and it is, Islam is clearly winning the race for the hearts and the minds of the people. Islam has converted more people than Christianity, Judaism or any other religion, and made inroads into all religions. Islam is the fastest growing religion and if Catholicism is separated from Protestantism–then Islam is the largest religion. Even if we lump both of them together, in the next 20 years, Islam will be the dominant religion of the world.
It is true that the events of the 18th century were in favor of the Europeans who occupied Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, African, Chinese, Latin American lands. However they were unable to extinguish Islam and Muslims. Yes they were able to destroy Native Americans and their religion, but they were unable to decimate Islam and Muslims.
Your hint at arms and war has been properly rebutted. Arabia had 10,000 able bodied men around 622. Depite your temple indoctrination, it would have been impossible for them to capture lands from Morocco to Indonesia. It is taking 800,000 Bharati soldiers to keep down Kashmir. The “Madrassa” nonsense is not backed up by facts. Dr. Tahir Andarabi has done fantastic research on this. A very tiny minority of students go to madarsas. Gun toting? Yes–be scared. Who cares what your ilk says about Islam. They more you try to malign it, the more it grows! Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. This is not the first time in history that it was maligned. Crusades, colonialism, New-imperialism, and now the new Crusades ahve all tried to destroy and eliminate it–it keeps growing. Please keep harping on cliches while new and new reverts will continue to recite the kalima. You are doing Islam a great favor by talking about it and brining it to the attention of the people. Keep it up. When they know about it they revert back to Islam. Thank you.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. When it is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.
In 1945 there were no Muslim states that were independent. Today there are sixty Muslims all over the world have a very high standard of living and Muslims in the West are affluent and doing well in their fields and profession.
Would like to engage with you on the subject—please read the article “Muhammad in the Christian context” written by one of the former editors of this site–which describes the Unitarians and the Trinitarians and their discuss is a very poignant one.
http://rupeenews.com/about/muhammad-in-the-christian-context-concentrating-on-the-commonalities-between-the-abrahamic-faiths-the-arian-influences-on-islam-the-muslim-influences-on-martin-luther-locke-and-jefferson/
@ Akhbar Navees Thank you for referring the site, though it does not talk about the corruption of Messages and the reason for corruption. It does not entail the personnel biography of Constantine as to why he chose Trinitarian over Unitarian persuasion. I have many books that indulge on the issues. Constantine mother was constantly propagating Unitarianism (not his sister) as oppose to Trinity. Tertullian (an Egyptian Monk) was the first ever person of prestige to endorse the trinity, as he had already known the concept of Trinity with Osiris as god-head. Thus the reason I commented to bring your attention on the error.
The article as referred by you needs revision and please do not ask me to do it as it will take me weeks, while I am suppose to meet this person in Texas, who alleged Qaddafi deleted the word ‘Qul’ from Qura’n.
When quoting Qura’n as presented in the referred article by you, please see the Arabic Text first as the translation does not conform to actual meaning.
When quoting 5:82
“And you will certainly find that the people most hostile against the believers are the Jews and the ones who ascribe partners to Allah. You will certainly find that the closest of them in friendship with the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them there are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant”.>>
On the above translation ‘Jews’ is correct for Arabic word ‘Yehuda’ as they are the followers of Judah or Yehuda. While ‘Christian’ translation is in correct for ‘Ansar’ or ‘Nesara’ which means helpers and not Christians. These helpers were Hebrews (Nazarene, Maccabees & Essen-es).
On the Qura’n verse 5:69
“Surely, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians – whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, and acts righteously, shall have no fear, nor shall such people grieve”>>
On the above verse ‘Jews’ is incorrect translation of Arabic word ‘Hadu’ as Hebrew is more appropriate. It makes lot of difference among the two translation. As the progeny of Judah are the worst enemy of Islam and they worship royalty or Monarchs, the other Hebrew sect is in favor of Islam, but Hebrew. many of the Hebrew Rabbis are proclaiming that Islam will become religion of all the household due to its ONE GOD worship, piety, charity and other deeds as Commanded by ALLAH. They also infer that Islam is the oldest religion on the face of the Earth. So its the Hebrews who will have mercy from ALLAH because they worship HIM ALONE. Again in this verse ‘Christian’ is a wrong translation of Arabic word ‘Nasara’. Christianity is man made religion that commit shirk and worship Idol (s). Therefore out of the boundary of Mercy.
Verse 2:62
“Surely, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians – whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, and acts righteously, shall have no fear, nor shall such people grieve”>>
Again ‘Jew’ is wrong translation for ‘Hadu’ likewise ‘Christians’ for ‘Nasara’.
It is imperative to do correct translation so as to avoid confusion. Our translators must recognize the difference between the Arabic words lest it mislead mankind.
Please excuse me for bringing out the above issues.
Asslamu-Elekum
Actually, the Quran word “Auliya” in this context means religious benefactor–
I will research and correct if needed the section on Tertullian. The main thrust of the article was on Arius and his brand of monotheism
@ gaurav the flip flop fool still spouting non-sense:
“The islamic world should take a cue from japan.china and even india to devote more energy in the field of science&technology”>>
Japan is taking cue from Qura’n, thus reverting to Islam. So is China, which is the only Country that bans all the religious books including the Hindu nonsensical scriptures but Qura’n. Wait may be you will not understand what I wrote due to your monkey pea brain. China has band all religious books except Qura’n. Perhaps now you may understand that even China accepts Qura’n as the only authentic religious book in the World.
As for taking a cue from India?…..No thank you. India Hindu scriptures says, the Sun is pulled by 7 horses around the world.
It says that the Earth is static and is flat…..No thank you.
It says that the Moon is bigger than the Sun…..No thank you.
It says the Bull has supported the sky…. How STUPID..No thanks.
It says that sun is 800,000 miles and moon is 2,200,000 from the Earth. Is that what they teach you in your Temples FOOL. If not then throw your scriptures in Ganga.
It says that the earth has an area of 4,000,000,000
square miles. Nice math or may I say your Calculus. Fool keep your math with yourself and do not teach others or they may laugh at your stupid mathematics. By the way how did you figure the Earth square miles? Can you write the Indian mathematical formula to enlighten us.
Fool, not just in Muslim Countries, kids are also memorizing Qura’n in Europe, U S A and Canada. I should know it as I am one of the Director of a board that run such School or Medressa.
Eat your heart out L I A R. Yet better give it to RAT Temple so the filthy rats can eat it.
ur continous harping on growth of islam shows that u have run out of ideas.In fact,i deliberately confined myself to the issue of lack of scientific tempor amongst believers,lamented even by dr salam,gen mush etc.The issues of lack of democracy,inferior position of minorities ordained by koran and sharia,commoditification of women as evident by triple talaq and burqa ,loaded blasphemy laws against minorities have become the targets of ridicule among non believers and have seriously questioned the greatness of islam.While hinduism offers a carte blanche approach in religious matters depending on intellectual capacity of its followers,islam with its pathological hatred of idolatry and its infamous narrow and rigid approach has made its less intellectually equipped followers almost automatons ready to shed blood in minor religious matters.It is high time that followers stop living in fool`s paradise created on the basis of 7th century revelations(or hallucinations)and wake up to the stark reality of growing and prosperous hinduism,which despite all herculean efforts by fanatics mullahs,is still the oldest living religion.
All your flame baits have been responded to. You have ZERO (the same one you have claimed to have invented) scientific fact to back up your rhetoric. We provided authenticated and referenced information to you.
Mondy say, monkey do–the word “democracy” does not appear anywhere in the Magna Carta or the American constitution. It was invented to wage war on Japan and Germany. It was used to allow the Brahmans to rule Bharat.
The Fools paradise rules the hearts and minds of more than a Billion people
To your kind of racism and bigotry the Quran says “La kum deena kum wal yadeen”. For you your religion, and for me mine.
The more you malign Islam, the more it will grow.
We can visibly see your rational thought during Khamb Mela!
Live with the fact that Islam is the fastest growing relgion.
1. One guy commented “Pakistan existed 5000 years ago” Actually problem is that these muslims does not understand what a nation is.
2. Allah can’t help you.
3. This website ashame every pakistani.
Short Live Hatred. Long Live Hindu’s Love.