RUPEE NEWS: Recording History, Narrating Archives, Strategic Intellibrief Analysis: Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | новости рупии | 卢比新闻 | Rupi Nyheter | ルピーニュース | اخبار روپیہ

NEW YORK | RUPEE NEWS | Feb. 24th, 2008 | Moin Ansari | A grand success story. Pakistan and China designed, prototyped and built the JF-17 Thunder faster than any other aircraft. Pakistan did it in four years–and according to Indian sources “left the Indian Light Combat Aricraft (LCA ) in the dust.”The WD-93 (Russian engine) JF-17 Thunder is now competing with the Korean and fighters. Pakistan’s indigenous JF-17 Thunders Fighter Plane

Pakistan has rapidly moved from the design and development stage to deployment and operationalization phases of the JF-17 Thunder and beyond. Pakistan is working with China to imporve to the J-10s and the J-11s. Already the Pakistan feedback has paid its dividends in the newer versions of the J-10s and the j-11.

• Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder Fighter plane: US sanctions and external existe…
• China exporting Y-89 AWAC technology to Pakistan
• Chinese technology exports to Pakistan: JF-17 Thunder, J-10s, J-11s

This success story of developing arms in Pakistan is not limited to the JF-17 thunder. The Nuclear bomb, the missiles and the tanks were all produced in record time, considering that Pakistan had only one dysfunctional Textile Mill, one dilapidated University, and one archaic Jute Mill in 1947. No other country has come so far in defense production in such a short period of time. It took the Japanese from the Meiji revolution of 1893 to 1940 to produce the deadly aircrafts that devastated Pearl Harbor. The first American missiles and the entire Apollo program was built on Von Braun’s German technology. The Russian program was similarly also based on the German programs. In fact the first V2-rockets in the Museums in Washington are simply German rocket painted red 9for Russia) and other colors for America.

The Pakistanis pushed the Chinese for the JF-17 Thunder design improvement. The Pakistanis have a distinct advantage that the Chinese don’t have. Islamabad has the experience with Western technology, begining with the F-104, and the F-86 Sabres and ending with the latest F-16s. This has taken the JF-17 Thunder to new technological heights, specially because it has been upgraded with European technological innovation and duplicated Russian and American goodies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBmmCazGDGI&feature=player_embedded

Pakistan is now pushing the frontiers of the J-10s and the J-11s in terms of structural redisgn, cockpit improvement, increased thrust power for the engines, Beyond Visual Range and other latest innovations. Thus the end result is a new plane which is vastly superior than what it would have been without Pakistani input and help.

Chinese technology exports to Pakistan: JF-17 Thunder, J-10s, J-11s. This alliance has propelled the aircraft manufacturing of China to new levels and given the Pakistanis access to Chinese acumen which it did not have before. JF-17 Thunders

Beyond the JF-17 Thunders. The J-10s etc

Pakistan’s 250 JF-17s, 50 F-16: India’s panicky “concern”.

Pakistan is also producing the cheap Adam car which will compete with Chinese, and Japanese models (http://www.adammotor.com/daily_dawn.htm).

Pakistan is in midst of building about 500 JF-17 Thunder fighters, probably the biggest build up of planes in the history of the world. This is one of the greatest achievements of the Pakistani government in the past 8 years. This project removes the Pakistani defense from the shackles of foreign government. One can argue about the comparison with 4th generation American state-of-the-art planes, but this much is clear—it was designed for Pakistan, and is being produced in Pakistan. Serious plans are underway to upgrade the plane to new levels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzyzaC5oM1E&feature=player_embedded

…procurement is critical for PAF as it needs a quality high end to counter the larger IAF with her MKIs, Mirage-2000s and MRCA. With a new sensor rich environment dominated by AWACS on both sides and a large number of BVR platforms, higher altitude BVR engagements would become vital. J-10s are ideally suited for such combat given their aerodynamics including low wing loading in an A2A configuration. The instantaneous turn rates achievable on the J-10 (or the Euro canards) are likely to give an advantage in such engagements, as opposed to the high wing loadings on the over-evolved F-16s which were essentially designed for turning dog fights rather than high altitude BVR slash and dash maneuvers.

With the AESA equipped new J-10Bs, higher thrust engines and better EW/Avionics, PAF would reclaim the qualitative edge over the IAF. These J-10s would be superior in air combat than anything that the IAF fields today and would only be matched by a possible MRCA acquisition by India. Even then, with the 5 present contenders left in the MRCA, only the Eurofighter (assuming AESA radars) would be able to match the J-10 in air-to-air combat.

The PAF is looking for a total of 150 high end aircraft like the F-16 Block 52s and the FC-20 (J-10Bs or J-10Ps). The FC-20s could be procured in greater numbers, depending on relations with the U.S. and the operability of the F-16s. The J-10Ps and the JF-17s make a perfect pair – one ideal for high altitude air superiority and deep strike missions while the other ideal as a true multirole fighter. Where the J-10 lacks in deep strike, the F-16s make up for it. Where the J-10s lack in CAS, the JF-17s make up for it. Where the JF-17 lacks in high altitude BVR engagements, the J-10s make up for it.

The J-10s, F-16s and JF-17s also fit into the AFFDP-2019 requirements. The AFFDP-2019 is the core document on the strategic planning of Pakistan’s armed forces over 15 years. While this document is not available in the public domain, informed sources note that the PAF has been assigned procurement of only single engine combat aircraft. The J-10Ps/FC-20s coupled with the JF-17s and F-16s thus ideally meet these requirements.

In the event that the Indian Air Force decides to procure massive numbers of Western 4.5 generation fighters, beyond the 126 MRCA, while increasing the Su-30MKI numbers and upgrades their MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s, the PAF has a clear charted path in increasing JF-17s and FC-20s, having by then set up the infrastructure and training for these planes. Further, the JF-17s would not only allow PAF to counter numbers, but also allow her to maintain larger numbers of FC-20s and F-16s for war-time and lower their depreciation – providing a low cost training aircraft to fly liberally during peacetime. This would be a similar arrangement to how the Israeli Air Force uses F-16s to keep meet the flight time allocations of its F-15 pilots. Grande Strategy

Many countries with enormous resources and tremendous backing have tried to produce airplanes. The huge failures of the Brazilians (version of the SU 27) and the Israelis (Lavi) are in written in stone. Even the Indian efforts at domestic production of missiles and planes (LCA-Tejas, and other) is checkered with colossal failures. See report on this site by the Indian head of the Airforce. The Indian flying coffins, as well as the first Indian plane are pretty much grounded as is the Indian missile program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBmmCazGDGI&feature=player_embedded

This production is a magnificent example of Concurrent Engineering. The Pakistan JF-Thunder aircraft is going through a major upgrade in avionics, and a switch in engines to a Chinese version of the WD-93 called the WS-13. This is fascinating for all engineers. The airplane is being produced in mass, and new development is also happening concurrently. Efforts are already underway to produce the WS-13 engine locally, and upgrade the avionics with the latest French, German and Italian technology. Pakistan will export the older versions of the plane to Khazikistan and other countries. Khazakistan will make it more difficult for Armenia. This may change the balance of power in many regions, specially if Sri Lanks gets the JF-17 Thunder. The Sri Lankan Airforce may get an unprecedented advantage over the marauding mercenary terrorists who come over from Indian Tamil-land in increasing numbers. This may be done at the expense of requesting a Pakistan base in Sri Lanka.

The PAF is looking to add as much potency as possible, within its budget constraints; shopping for avionics from Western sources to add further potential to its JF-17s and FC-20s. Thus far, Chinese developments have been so rapid that by the time decisions were to be made at the PAF, the Chinese would meet or exceed requirements and the competition at a lower price. It remains to be seen if this can be pulled off again by the Chinese when PAF goes shopping for the next block of JF-17s and the new FC-20s. For the FC-20s, EW, cockpit interface and reliability of the new Chinese AESA radar will play a critical role. The PAF is meanwhile keeping open options with European equivalents, including the M-AESA (Multi-role Active Electronically Scanned Antenna) being developed by Saab and Selex and a French AESA, yet to be revealed. Grande Strategy

Pakistan used the earthquake as the perfect opportunity to gently turn down the offer of 60 F-16s (block 50) to Pakistan and reduced the number of American planes to be purchased. The Pakistanis then further diversified the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). In Pakistani minds, the US is an unreliable arms supplier. Pakistan has suffered many times by American sanctions. President Musharraf and PAF head was invited to China to evaluate China’s latest toy, at the time, the J-10.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has shown a great deal of interest in the J-10 project as a possible substitute for Western combat aircraft for its high end requirements. The PAF, however, wanted a more modern version. Just as the FC-1s (and before the FC-1, the F-7s) were significantly upgraded due to the PAF’s push for improvements, the J-10 appears to be going through a similar phase. The reason for this is that the PAF has a far closer view of Western technologies and trends and thus can provide deeper insight than more insulated Chinese expertise. The J-10B in all likelihood has had major input from the PAF and is the FC-20 that the PAF has ordered. Grande Strategy

• Russian arms “Made in China”
• The Chinese H-8 Stealth bomber? List of Chinese aircrafts

Now reports are surfacing that China has been able to duplicate the SU-27, the most lethal bird in the air. The Chinese version of the Sukhoi SU-27 (Flanker) is now called the J-11. The Su-30MKI (another derivative of the SU-27), a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical. The American Fighters belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. The F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.

The J-10B incorporates a new small ECM housing on the vertical stabilizer and this stabilizer also appears to be longer and ending in a “shark-fin”. The ECM housing is similar to the housing on the JF-17. The two ventral fins are also extended further and are larger irrespective of the shark-fin. The aerodynamic refinements of the longer vertical stabilizer and the ventral fins appear to be a result of the DSI intakes which create greater lateral forces on the aircraft.

The wide angle HUD featured on the J-11Bs seem to have also appeared on the J-10B. While it cannot be confirmed, it appears that the cockpit itself has been redesigned extensively. Other than the new ECM housing on the vertical stabilizer, new MAWs appear on the tail bump. Just below these, curious breaks appear on the fuselage that some observers are referring to as possible formation lights “slime lights”, but expert opinion from a Lockheed Martin source suggest that they are FLIR sensors. A redesigned satellite communication unit appears right behind the cockpit.

A retractable refueling probe is likely, given the development of the J-10 thus far, and is possibly located on the port side, not visible in the latest photographs. The photographs also suggest new under-wing pylons. These appear to be strengthened for a variety of possible uses, ranging from larger drop tanks to ASMs.

The engine is likely to be either a redesigned WS-10A (B?) or possibly the WS-15, a new generation engine currently in advanced development. This would not only have higher thrust than the AL-31s, but also feature TVCs, giving the J-10Bs vaunted agility an even greater boost. The actual engine on the aircraft presently on the released pictures, is the AL-31.

Like the J-10S, a J-10BS is also eventually likely. This would be an advanced trainer with the 360 degree view similar to the J-10S. EW/Wild Weasel variants could also eventually be possible. Grande Strategy

China crosses Military Technology Independence Threshold

The airplanes in the Russian inventory are:

1. SU-27 a fourth generation fighter
2. SU33, and SU35 derivatives of the 4th generation SU-27s

The Pakistanis should be tight lipped about the new Chinese fighter and whether Pakistan is going to acquire any. The Chinese in a sweet deal of $2.5 Billion with the Russians purchased the right to produce the SK-27. The J-11 is a “third generation” aircraft.

Now, the efforts in China and Pakistan are underway to move to the air-forces to the latest planes like SU-27K which is now called SU-33.

What about the SU-35? The original Su-35 was a derivative of the Su-27 and essentially a ground-based variant of the Su-33. While the official Russian Air Force designation for the aircraft remained the Su-27M, Sukhoi rechristened the model as the Su-35 in the hopes of attracting foreign customers. The Brazilians wanted to produce it but in the end opted for the Mirage IIIs.

The Brazilian decision appeared to have ended the Su-35 program once and for all since Sukhoi had little success finding other customers. Hopes were briefly revived in May 2006 when Venezuela announced interest in the Su-35, but the nation instead chose a variant of the Su-30. The move is largely politically-motivated given recent tensions between Venezuela and the United States over America’s ban on providing support for the Venezuelan F-16 fleet. the Su-35 was revived at least in name in 2007 when Sukhoi announced the aircraft had entered production for the Russian Air Force. This incarnation is also a derivative of the Su-27

A derivative of the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, the Su-37 is a super-maneuverable thrust vectoring fighter. Designed from an Su-35 prototype, the Su-37 test aircraft (designated T10M-11) made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor. (www.globalaircraft.org/planes/su-37_flanker.pl)

Here is a F-16 side by side with the SU-37.

MOSCOW, February 21 (RIA Novosti) – China has built a domestic copy of the famed Su-27 Flanker fighter and may compete with Russia on third-party markets if it sets up the full-scale production of the plane, a Russian daily said on Thursday.

China has acquired 76 Su-27SK fighters from Russia since 1992, and bought a license for production of another 200 planes in 1995, in a deal worth $2.5 billion.

“Since 1996, the domestic version of the Su-27 aircraft, dubbed J-11, has been produced at the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) with the use of Russian components,” the Vedomosti newspaper said.

The licensed production of the Su-27 has given China its most capable fighter aircraft while also providing a vehicle for its industry to gain knowledge of third-generation fighter manufacturing, Vedomosti said.

About 95 aircraft had been produced in China by 2003. However, the 1995 agreement did not include the transfer of avionics and AL-31F turbofan engine technology, and the Chinese manufacturers had to rely on the Russian supply of these systems.

In 2004, China requested that Russia’s Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer stop deliveries of the assembly kits, stating that the basic variant of the Su-27SK/J-11 fighter could no longer satisfy Chinese Air Force requirements.

But the Russian sources insist that China’s decision was prompted by an increased share of domestic components in the assembly of the licensed aircraft and breakthroughs in engine manufacturing technology.

“The breakthrough in engine manufacturing technology allowed China to increase its share of domestically developed components and technologies from 70-75% to over 90%,” the newspaper cited an official from the Russian state-controlled arms exporter, Rosoboronexport, as saying.

In 2006, China revealed first official details about the domestically developed WS-10A Tai Hang turbofan engine, similar to the Russian AL-31F engine in both technology and performance.

China announced that the engine had been successfully tested on a modified Su-27K fighter, but Russian experts believe it is not reliable enough to start the full-scale production of the aircraft.

Rosoboron export and Chinese officials refused to comment on the latest developments in the situation regarding the licensed production of Su-27s in China.

Meanwhile, Konstantin Makiyenko from the Russian Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, believes that if China manages to launch a full-scale production of the indigenous copy of the Su-27, it would easily push Russia from third-party markets, and it would be difficult to prove a violation of the license agreement.

Su-27 Flanker and its variant, Su-30 Flanker C, constitute the bulk of Russia’s arms exports. Last year, Sukhoi exported 50 of these aircraft, accounting for 50% of Rosoboron export’s export revenues, Vedomosti said.

The newspaper also noted that China had a long history of copying Russian aircraft. Chinese J-6 and J-7 fighters were modeled after MiG-19 Farmer and MiG-21 Fishbed, H-6 bomber – after Tu-16 Badger, and Y-5, Y-7 and Y-8 transport planes – after An-2 Colt, An-24 Coke and An-12 Cub, respectively. RIA Novosti

Chinese technology exports to Pakistan: JF-17 Thunder, J-10s, J-11s. This alliance has propelled the aircraft manufacturing of China to new levels and given the Pakistanis access to Chinese acumen which it did not have before. JF-17 Thunders

Beyond the JF-17 Thunders. The J-10s etc

Pakistan’s 250 JF-17s, 50 F-16: Indias panicky “concern”.

There are some new developments on the JF-17 Thunder development and the latest news about the increases cooperation between the Pakistanis and the Chinese. We reported the WS-13 development in the February of 2008. Now Grande Strategy is also discussing the same issue. However Grande Strategy does not mention the latest development on this matter. Pakistan has also working with European and American engine manufacturers to develop the local Pakistani version of the WS-13. Additionally though Grande Strategy does mention some of the newer Avionics, it does not mention the latest on the Beyond Visual Range (BVR). Great strides have been made by the Chinese in improving BVR in the J-10s and the J-11s. Obviously this technology does flow down to the JF-17 Thunders. Pakistan has also worked with the Turks and the Europeans in enhancing the BVR capability.

What’s Cooking in Chengdu

There are indications that Chengdu is becoming a major cooperation hub for Pakistan and China. Hints are flying that more is brewing at Chengdu than the FC-1 and the J-10 sourced from the ever reliable pshamim of pakdef. Apparently a consulate and a halal restaurant is opening up to accommodate the soft side of all these project ventures. Personally I would like to see a single engined stealth fighter come out of Chengdu, as much as the reports are that its going to be a twin engined plane. Whatever is cooking in Chengdu, its likely to be halal for the PAF.

Future Modernization Roadmap

I think the future modernization of the JF-17 in PAF service will be along two more blocks – first 50, next 100 and final 100. It may be that the first 50 will be modernized after the last block.

The first 50 will include Chinese avionics and weapons, RD-93 engines and at best a foreign IR missile. The second block is likely to incorporate the WS-13 engine, Western radar and missiles and various augmenting sensors. These may include the Selex Vixen radar and the MBDA Meteor or perhaps the AMRAAM. The reason for this is that the SD-10 is untested, and AESA radar development is still not mature in China. Further, the SD-10 is a bit heavier than its Western counterparts and is less suited for the light fighter class than say, the Mica or the AMRAAM would be. AMRAAM of course would be ideal given that there would be commonality with the F-16s. Even if an AESA is not bought for the second batch, a western radar that allows the integration of the AMRAAM, even if it is not necessarily more advanced than the KLJ-7 would definitely be welcome. A HMD/S such as the Guardian or the Cobra with a HOBS missile would also be something the PAF is likely to be looking at. Some minor stealth features may also be incorporated in the second block.

The third block would possibly incorporate a Chinese AESA and perhaps a Chinese ramjet BVR missile (given that the speculated Meteor buy does not go through).

It is also likely to be more stealthier than any previous blocks. I would personally like to see provision for two BVRs to be kept semi-recessed, centerline and one behind the other, while the IR missiles stay on the wing tip. This could be a good trade-off between stealth and performance on a limited airframe.

A few readily available upgrades can also be borrowed from the J-11 program, including the new 3D holographic wide angel HUD and the optical missile approach-warning receiver. These should go into the JF-17s from the very first block.
RD-93 / WS-13

One of the bigger issues with the RD-93 is its inability to be completely smoke free. While it has been significantly decreased, some smokiness still remains. No such problem is likely to exist with the WS-13. Reliability and MTBF as well as better fuel efficiency are key elements where the WS-13 also likely trumps the RD-93.
What is however truly impressive about the RD-93 and even considering all its misgivings, is the acceleration and quick response it can achieve. The engines’ response is virtually instantaneous. Whether the WS-13 can match this would be interesting to note, although perhaps not as relevant or important. Below are the available specifications of the WS-13 and the RD-93.

Thrust (Afterburning, kN)              86.37   81.3     6.24%

Other Features of Note

It is therefore likely that the potential for the WS-13 to improve in this quarter is reasonably good. Further, its higher dry thrust would be more useful to the FC-1 because of its limited fuel. The biggest factor however, would remain reliability. The reported 33% rejection rate with the RD-93s is mind blowing. At the end of the day, it is likely that the PAF will choose the more reliable engine. Grande Strategy

We have already discussed the RD-93 vs WS-13 issue. We do take strong umbrage at Grade Strategy for referring to the JF-17 Thunder as FC-1. The JF-17 Thunder is not the FC-1.

Multi-role combat version of the Su-27, developed from the Su-35. The Su-37 uses full digital FBW controls in combination with two- dimensional thrust vectoring nozzles. Like the Su-35, it has canards. The Su-37 is not yet in production.

Type: Su-37
Function: fighter
Year: 1996
Crew: 1
Engines: 2 * 137kN Saturn AL-37FU
Wing Span: 14.70 m
Length: 22.10 m
Height: 6.32 m
Wing Area:
Empty Weight: 18500 kg
Max.Weight: 34000 kg
Speed: 2400 km/h
Ceiling: 17800 m
Range:
Armament: 1*g30mm 8000 kg

Pakistan wants to replace the F-16s in 2020 with the F-35s

How long to extripate penury from india? 300 years! India’s budget– fit for a superpower Murder of 10 million Indian girl babies: Before & right after birth. Why is the media silent?

Sino-Indian relationship

India Balkanizing? Naxalite insurrection widening cracks in deep cavaties
The 2nd world revolution (after Buddhism) from Nepal: Another threat to India

Red Nepal: Clear and present danger to India

Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | новости рупии | 卢比新闻 | Roepienieuws | Rupi Nyheter | ルピーニュース | Notizie di Rupia | PAKISTAN LEDGER | پاکستاني کھاتا | Moin Ansari | معین آنصآرّی | DefensebriefsIntellibriefs Translate to:

India a Failed state? The Singh Doctrine for Akhand Bharat Fails India’s Security nightmares: Naxalites, Mioram, Tamilland, Khalistan, 7 sisters of Northeast, 450 million Untouchable Dalits, Kashmiris, 150 million Muslims
Women harassed in “Incredible India”: Female genocide-Persistent ogling, heckling by Indian men. GENDER MURDER:-10 million baby girls killed before & after birth: Female gender genocide is destroying male female ratio in India

Hunger in India worse than Bukino Faso. Bottom in Asia. Worst in South Asia How Buddhism was exterminated from South Asia? 600BC-400AD Replacing Hinduism in Buddhist lands: The Hindu extremists use the Safron Swastika flag instead of the tri-colored flag of India. (see Hindu unity dot org) Extremist Hindus show power using the Swastika in triple entendre–as an ancient Hindu symbol, reverence for Hitler & sign of Anti-Western Indian hatred. Many want to use the Swastika as the Indian flag.
Indian penury: The reality vs. Bollywood’s (Pornywood) marketing gloss
How long to extripate penury from india? 300 years!
Khumb Mela: India’s 60 million filthy naked Hindu males India’s budget– fit for a superpower Indian Cracks visible: Naxalite insurgency exposes deep cavities in India India Balkanizing: Naxal insurgency widening cracks into deep abyss
Murder of 10 million Indian girl babies: Before & right after birth. Why is the media silent? Sino-Indian feuds: Arunchal Pradesh is Chinese territory occupied by Delhi India Balkanizing? Naxalite insurrection widening cracks in deep cavities
The 2nd world revolution (after Buddhism) from Nepal: Another threat to India Red Nepal: Clear and present danger to India Why is Urine drinking popular in India? From Mohandas Gandhi to PM Desai to common man. India at bottom of world’s hungriest countries: Scores worse than Barkino Faso in the list of the hungriest nations on the planet Reality of Slumdog’s extreme poverty irks Indians living in Bollywood dreams

Appendix A

J-10 Vs F-16 Technical Comparison

The F-16 was designed from the outset as a dog-fighter. The moderate sweep of the wings and aspect ratios were ideal for this. The trade-off however, was greater supersonic resistance. The thrust offered by the two engine options on the F-16 is impressive even to this day. TWR in air combat is about 1.15, ensuring impressive climbing rates and sustained turn rates. As noted, the F-16 sacrificed supersonic performance, not only in its wing design but also in its fixed air intakes. In supersonic flight, engine thrust is lost. While it can reach Mach 2.0, pragmatically it has poor supersonic performance.

While the F-16 sacrificed supersonic performance for subsonic dogfighting, the J-10 did not make the same sacrifice. Thus, while when the F-16 was designed, turning dogfights were what was projected as the bread and butter of air combat, when the J-10 was being designed, the BVR era had arrived (or re-arrived). The J-10s aerodynamic design, including wing design and inlet design, take this into account. For instance, the J-10 visibly has greater wing sweep and a variable inlet. With the J-10B, a DSI intake. While the J-10B sacrifices maximum theoretical top speeds with its DSI intakes, for all relevant combat speeds, it gives the J-10 superior performance.

Under modern BVR conditions and higher altitude combat, the J-10 is significantly superior to the F-16. This is also reflected in its higher instantaneous turn rates. The Mirage-2000s have been a point of major concern both for the Pakistanis and the Turkish air forces, because of these aerodynamic issues, despite the Mirages weak engines. The Greeks, who operated both the Mirage 2000 and F-16C considered the F-16 to be better at low altitude, low speed, hard turning fights, and Mirage 2000 to be superior at hi-hi.The F-16 would have to attempt to survive the first merge in an air combat scenario, which becomes increasingly suicidal with high off-bore sight missiles. BVR further compounds these problems for the F-16s. In previous eras, flying hi and fast was fine, but you often had to come down low to engage a low flying enemy aircraft. Today, that becomes less relevant with longer range BVR missiles and look-down shoot-down capabilities.

The F-16 has also been adding weight over time and attempting to counterbalance this with increased engine thrust. However, since wing area remained the same, maneuverability has been sacrificed. Higher wing loading is particularly detrimental for higher altitude maneuverability. The J-10 on the other hand, has all the wing area it could ever need with a delta canard layout.

The newer block F-16s however, are great for low altitude air-to-ground missions. The high wing loading favors low fliers and the moderate wing sweep helps handling at lower speeds often necessary during ordnance delivery. The J-10 is thus not ideal for the CAS role. However, because of the range and payload advantages, the J-10 can be considered an effective deep striker. CAS was never a pressing need for the PLAAF, and the PAF has the JF-17 which is ideal for that role.

Three Different J-10s?

The reported total estimated number of J-10s is 1,200. This figure is according to Russian sources from the Moscow Airshow and is also reported in the Department of Defense annual reports to the U.S. Congress on Chinese military modernization. Given these numbers would go to the various J-10 variants. This author’s view is that China has no limits set for the production of J-10s. They’ll take as many as Chengdu can produce. However, the real question is – which J-10?

Firstly, we have the First Generation J-10s with AL-31 engines. Chengdu was to follow these with a J-10A with WS-10A engines. This evolution has encountered obstacles related to reliability issues. The J-10B, represents a 4.5 generation plane but it remains to be seen what engine is used with this plane. Meanwhile, according to informed commentators, a J-10C with twin engines around the size of RD-33s and incorporating similar features to the J-10B has arrived. This is supposedly a direct competitor to the Eurofighter and has the same layout – twin engined canard delta with a single tail. The PLAAF will have to decide whether to go with the J-10B or the J-10C at some point. Pakistan will not go for the J-10C as the twin engines do not comply with their doctrine of single-engined fighters and with the AFFDP-2019.

A carrier based J-10 has also been reported but this is in direct competition with the J-13, a dedicated 4.5++ carrier fighter with a conventional layout similar to the F/A-18 Super Hornets. Lastly, we have a stealth 5th Generation evolution of the delta canard, but this has reportedly lost out to a conventional layout based on the F-22. Chengdu has reportedly not lost out completely but is taking part in the project jointly with Shenyang.

Chinese 5th Gen
<!–[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]–>
<!–[endif]–>

The 5th Generation Chinese stealth plane is what would eventually close down J-10 production. The XXJ or J-XX as it is often referred to, has been the subject of intense competition between China’s two premier fighter design institutions – CAC and SAC. While CAC’s 611 Institute lost the bid to SAC’s 601 Institute, both entities have begun joint development of the new fighter. How the rivalry plays out remains to be seen. It appears Chengdu has the upper hand as it is perceived to have been more successful. J-10 program director Liu Gaozhou recently stated that, ” we are researching and developing a fourth generation to meet the requirements of defending the motherland.” China’s fourth generation is of course, the 5th generation we refer to in the West.

The design is a conventional layout in direct similarity to the F-22. The J-XX will be powered by the WS-15, a new generation engine in development. Normal TO weight would roughly measure to 20 tons and thus be in the heavy fighter class.The J-XX would possibly be superior to all

Credits:
Forums: Pakdef, Keypublishing Forums, Defence.pk, Sino Defence Forums, China-Defense Forums

Special Credits:
Crobato
Deino
FaisalK Pakdef (Mark Sein)
Farooq
GAF
H Khan Pakdef
Huitong
Jawad
Murad (Muradk)
Munir
Pinko, CDF
Sabre (Pakdef)
vikasrehman
Zia ul haq

Fan videos:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3

Crescent daggers
Pakistan’s “214 Subs” made in Karachi 5th Generation Su-35 spinoffs made in China as J-11s
Pakistan rapidly moving beyond basic JF-17 Thunders. The J-10s J-11s and newer versions of JF-17
The Pakistani hawks in the sky: Y-89 AWACS
Nothing succeeds like success: Hataf, Ghauri, Babar, Abdali missiles

—————————————-
JF-17 Thunders: Designed, built and operationalized in a record time of 4 years. Custom built for Pakistani needs
Serial production of JF-17 Thunder expedited:30-50 per year to 100 per annum
Beyond the Pakistani made JF-17 Thunder Fighter Plane, Chinese made J-10s.PAF next acquisition the J-11s?
Pakistan defense based on missile nuclear deterrent Hataf, Shaheen Babar and Abdali Hamza: Pakistan’s Augusta class Subs made in Karachi Pakistan’s 500 Al-Khalid tanks have been in production since 2001. Next generation tanks exported via IDEAS Pakistani made UAVs: Uqaab & Jasoos  

Russian 5th generation Su 35s spinoff of Su 27 Made in China as J-11

Russian Arms–Made in China

Indian missile failures

IAF vs PAF: Defined by IAF

The Singh Doctrine for Akhand Bharat Fails Gandhi’s racism: Criticism of Mohandas Gandhi by his grandsons and other Indians
Why is Urine drinking popular in India? From Mohandas Gandhi to PM Desai to common man.
How Buddhism was exterminated from South Asia? 600BC-400AD Reviving Hinduism in Buddhist lands: The Hindu extremists use the Safron Swastika flag instead of the tri-colored flag of India. (see Hindu unity dot org)
—————————————-
Indian penury: The reality vs. the Bollywood marketing gloss:
————————————— India as World Power 1 Extremist Hindus show power using the Swastika in triple entendre–as an ancient Hindu symbol, reverence for Hitler & sign of Anti-Western Indian hatred
Superpower India Pt 2 Extremist Hindus revere Hitler and use the Swastika as the Indian flag

Tanks: Bharati Arjun vs. Pakistani Al Khalid

Why doesn’t Russia transfer plane technology to India?

China achieves techonological independence in arms production

Pakistan’s F-22 Frigates made in Karachi Chinese SAMs S-300s for Pakistan When with Iranian S-300s be operational? Why did Pakistan buy fewer F-16s?

3 New shipyards support Pakistani ship building & Frigates