Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder Fighter plane: US sanctions and external existential threats forced Pakistan to go Nuclear, build missiles and develop its own indigenous Fighter jet

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Pakistan’s indigenously produced 4th Generation Fighter is being mass produced and exported. The first squadron of the JF-17 Thunder was operationalized in April 2009.

“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.” - Samuel P. Huntington (author The Clash Of Civilisations) 
This article will be updated on a periodic basis as new information on the F-17 upgrades are made available. Updated March 6th, 2008 
After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.JF-THunder taking off
 Comparision of F-16 with JF-17-Thunder in three areas:1) Payload, 2) Beyond Visual Range capability and 3) SpeedBVR : It is a tough competition. The MIRAGE III are equipped with a F-16C APG-68 class radar , and the one to be used in JF-17 is thought to be a better one. So it comes down to the BVR missile . SD-10, although simlilar in shape to the AIM-120 , is still work in progress. Its range is said to be 70km which is in league with the AIM-120 carried by an F-16C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5aUGum2EiM&feature=related

PAYLOAD : F-16 wins handsdown. It can carry more weapons.
WVR : Although the JF-17 is said to be tailor made for PAF on the basis of an F-16, i doubt it can match the F-16 in WVR maneuvering overall. They would be close.
SPEED : Without the JF-17 composite airframe version (next upgrade), F-16C has better speed. A more powerful engine is planned for the JF-17 in the next upgrade or even before.

With payload, the F-16C versions, Block-30/32 to Block-50/52 have 9 Hardpoints, a matured airframe and design, and a ton of stuff the JF-17 has yet to get to. The avionics of F-16C Block-50/52, the current production block is way ahead of JF-17’s. However, in combat, anything can happen, the slightest calculations can differentiate between victory and loss.

Helmet Mounted Display and Sight Systems

Helmet Display and Sight technologies developed by Elbit Systems has become a necessity in modern air warfare. With over 5,500 systems delivered to customers worldwide, Elbit is now positioned as the world leader in this market.

DASH was the company’s first integrated helmet mounted display and sight system, already operating with over 500 aircraft such as F-15, F-18, F-5 and MiG-21. DASH is measuring the pilot’s line of sight (LOS), slaving missiles and sensors to the target, DASH also brings displays to the pilot’s eye-level and informs the pilot of target location, while integrating all modes of operation with Hands On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) controls.

HMD in F-22 may be in F-10s: Systems’ fixed wing Helmet Mounted Display (HMD) technology provides the basis for the U.S. Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) program. Through the joint venture with Kaiser Electronics, Vision Systems International Inc (VSI) is equipping all frontline U.S. fighters (F-16, F/A-18, F-15 and F-22) with the advanced helmet mounted display and sight. Additionally, VSI was selected by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company to be its HMD source for the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeWfY-3gCp0

EXPORTS:

Azerbaijan and Zimbabwehave each placed orders as well.9 other countries which have expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 are Bangladesh, Burma (Myanmar), Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia[, Morocco, Nigeria and Sri Lanka, plus Algeria, which has reversed the decision of opting the latest MiG-29UBS.

The President of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, declared in his Independence Day speech on August 14, 2006 that the JF-17 will be flying in Pakistani skies by 2007-03-23. The first 2 JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft were delivered to Pakistan Air Force on 2007-03-12 while the remainder of the first batch of 8 aircraft will arrive later in the same year. The JF-17 Thunder aircraft had its first public appearance in Islamabad, on March 23, 2007 during a fly-past performance in the Pakistan Day Joint Services Parade in Islamabad.

On 2007-03-31, Pakistan Air Force Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmedsaid, "PAF would soon induct fourth and fifth generation high-tech fleet of fighter-bomber aircraft with the aim to modernize the country's air force which includes the induction of 10 to 12 squadrons of JF-17 Thunderaircraft." He also said, during this year, six more JF-17 aircraft would be received from China, as in 2008 the serial production of the aircraft would commence at Pakistan Aeronautical ComplexKamra, Pakistan. The PAF Chief said, 15 aircraft would be manufactured in 2008, while 20 in the next year with the aim to achieve capability to manufacture 25 to 30 aircraft per year, also hinting the PAF was set to acquire up to 250 JF-17 Thunder aircraft.

The ex-Prime Minister of Pakistan Shaukat Aziz in a recent press conference held in Islamabad, Pakistanafter the visit of China termed the project as JF-17 was "Pakistan's proud programme and a unique example of cooperation and friendship between the two countries". He also said that serial production of JF-17 Thunder aircraft would soon start next year and Pakistan would like to sell fourth generation JF-17 Multirole Aircraft to those interested. The Prime Minister also confirmed that JF-17 Thunder aircraft in Pakistan had also completed 500 sorties.

Cockpit: Advanced 4.5th generation EFISwith cockpit displays that are compatible with western systems such as those built by Rockwell Collins and Honeywell.

HUD is a state-of-the-art system developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).

All HUDand head-down displays are compatible with the standard electro-optical targeting pod that is carried externally.

  • Many images/information can be displayed at the same time.
  • The control panel consists of only 3 multi-function displays.
  • All information is processed and displayed on them.
  • Each screen's functions can be redefined individually, and are exchangeable.
  • Brightness and contrast can be adjusted automatically or manually, and can be made compatible with night vision goggles.

In mid-2007, Chinese state-run television station CCTV-7 aired the latest information on the EFISof JF-17 with most conventional analogue dial indicators eliminated:

It was shown that the EFIS of JF-17 consists of three large rectangular shaped color MFDs that appeared to be LCD. The MFD in the middle is in a lower position than the two on the side. Unlike most MFD with width greater than height, all MFDs on JF-17 appear to be rotated 90 degrees, i.e. with height much greater than width. A digital moving map display in Chinese is shown on the MFD to the right. However, other languages are also available, but it can be concluded for sure that English is definitely the dominant language.

There is a monochrome up-front control panel (UFCP) directly under the HUD, above the MFD in the middle. Control buttons are arranged to the left and the right sides of the UFCP, while there are three lines of display similar to that of civilian hand-held scientific calculators in the center, providing information such as dates in English. It appears that the displays of UFCP can only display information in English.

OTAS control.

Intelligent avionics.

  • Avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated.
  • Distributed structure with open architecture.
    • Two independent but exchangeable (can back up each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connect all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (that can also back up each other).
    • Each computer controls one data bus.
    • The current MIL-STD-1553B data bus can be readily replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber optic bus, on customer request.

The seat is inclined more than the normal 13/14 degrees.

Radar

Several radars have been tested onboard prototypes of JF-17, which includes:

Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 radar: Two delivered to China before the sales stopped under US pressure. At least one was installed on the first Chinese prototypes for test and evaluation. There are unconfirmed reports that at least one unit was lost when a prototype crashed.

Russian Phazotron Super Komar radar: This is a development of Komar (Gnat) radar Russian offered to upgrade Q-5 and J-7. The Komar (Gnat) itself, is a development of Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar offered for MiG-21-93/98, with newer electronics to drastically reduce the weight by more than a third, from the original 125 kgof Kopyo (Spear) to 80 kg. With the exception of the sector of scan is increased to +/- 60 degrees from the original +/- 40 degrees of Kopyo (Spear), all of the rest of performance parameters of Komar (Gnat) remained the same as that of Kopyo (Spear). Super Komarradar has improved capability than Komar (Gnat) in that instead of being able to simultaneously track 8 targets and engage 2 of the tracked like Komar (Gnat) and Kopyo (Spear), it can simultaneously track 10 targets and engage 4 of the tracked. It is reported, however, despite successful tests, the radar was eventually rejected by both China and Pakistan, because the 60/40 km tracking/engagement range of Super Komar radar was simply too short, and this was the reason why no more follow-up orders were placed.

Italian FIAR Grifo-S7 radar: Unlike the Russian Super Komar, the Italian radar lacks the capability of multi-targets tracking and engagement via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles. However, it does have multi-targets tracking capability (up to 8) and single target engagement capability via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles and when using active radar homing air-to-air missiles, two targets can be simultaneously engaged. The radar weighs 110 kg and a slotted planar array antenna. This Italian radar has higher MTBF than the Russian radar, up to more than 220 hours. Furthermore, the ISO-9002 certified radar and electronics manufacturing facility at Kamra of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complexalready had vast experience in license assembly / production of earlier Italian FIAR Grifo series radars for F-7MP/P/PG, and the Italian radar would have advantage over its competitors should assembly / production licenses be granted like it had been done earlier. This Italian radar emerged as the winner in the competition against British Blue Hawk and French RC-400radars, and it was reported that at least several unit would equip the very first JF-17 in Pakistani services.

British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar: this radar is developed from GEC-Marconi Blue Vixenradar onboard BAE Sea Harrier, with MTBF over 200 hours. The radar lacks the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, and this was one of the reason it was rejected by Pakistan, but this capability can be incorporated up on customers' request. The radar weigh 104 kg and incorporates a slotted planar array. This British radar remains a potential candidate on exported versions of JF-17 should potential customers require cheaper alternative to the Italian Grifo-S7 radar, and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complexcan readily integrate the radar to JF-17 upon customers' request.

French Thomson-CSF RC-400 radar: this radar is developed from Thomson-CSF RDY radaronboard Dassault Mirage 2000, with reduced peak power and maximum range due to decreased size and weight. Like the British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar, this French radar was also rejected by Pakistanfor lacking the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, but Thomson-CSF had claimed that such capability could be readily incorporated upon customer's request. Another reason for Pakistani rejection of the radar was that instead of being built to the MIL-STD-1553, the French radar was built to the French DIGIBUS standard instead, so extra work must be done for compatibility with MIL-STD-1553 standard, thus increasing the cost. However, for potential customers who had been accustomed with French equipment, this French radar is a logical choice because although the initial cost for installation is increased, the overall operational cost would be decreased when the radar is compatible with all other French equipment in the inventory. For this reason, RC-400also remains a potential candidate for export versions of JF-17 for possible future customers equipped with French systems. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is capable of performing the conversion for installation and providing the supports upon customers' request if this radar is to be selected.

It is reported (to be confirmed) that a Chinese radar of unknown designation has been offered for the production version of JF-17, and the Chinese offer had some key advantages over the Italian one, such as compatibility with Chinese weapon systems.

  • Radar has strong ECCM capacity and multiple modes, such as A2A (both BVR & close), air-to-ground, air-to-sea, terrain avoidance, etc. Terrain following mode is not standard, but can be added upon customer's request by either incorporating an external pod such as the Chinese Blue Sky navigational and targeting pods, or alternatively, the direct integration of the radar itself.
  • It can simultaneously detect 40+targets, simultaneously track 10 of 40 detected targets, and simultaneously engage 2 of the 10 tracked targets by guiding 2 semi-active radar homing BVR missiles to attack two separate targets. Alternatively, two missiles can be fired at the same target to raise the kill probability.
  • When active radar homing air-to-air missiles are used, the number of targets that can be simultaneously engaged are increased to 4.
  • The detection range for a typical air target of RC 3 m² is 125+ km; looking downrange is 45+ km; range for sea target is 250+ km.
  • When engaging land targets, the Chinese radar can lock on to individual vehicle like American radars do, instead of only being able to lock on to a large group of vehicles like the Russian Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar onboard MiG-21-93.
  • Easy to access LRUs with fully digitized solid state electronics and built-in self test functions.
  • Plenty of room for improvement is incorporated in the design so that the current plannar slotted array can be readily replaced by a passive phased array.
  • Reprogrammable digital processor with open architecture design.
  • Option to incorporate IFF.
  • The internally mounted electro-optics is not standard for JF-17, but the radar is compatible with them for their rapid integration upon customer's request.

Helmet Mounted Sight (HMS)

Though the exact type of the helmet mounted sights for JF-17 is yet to be determined, the HMS will be standard. JF-17 is compatible with a wide range of HMS, and its HMS will be at least equal or better than the HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PG, which first appeared in 2002 at air show and various defense / electronics exhibitions such as CIDEX held in China. According to the staff from the developing firms and their advertise at these exhibitions, the HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PGis already better than the latest Russian HMS available on the export market in that the Chinese HMS is specifically designed to improve the performance of the Russian system, and it outperforms its Russian counterparts including ASP-AVD-21, Shchel series, Sura series in various fields:

  • In comparison to the original standard Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard the MiG-29 and Flanker family, the field of view of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGis +/- 90 degrees, which is far greater than the mere +/- 8 degrees of the Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS.
  • In comparison to the latest Russian HMS available with +/- 60 degrees of field of view, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG still enjoys much greater field of view at +/- 90 degrees.
  • The elevation of the latest Russian HMS designed to replace the original ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard MiG-29 and Flanker family is only +/- 40 degrees, while in contrast, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG is already +/- 45 degrees.
  • The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG already had higher reliability than the Russian HMS.
  • The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG are easier and much cheaper to manufacture than its Russian counterparts.

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGhas already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG. Three major Chinese manufacturers, XBOE, the 613th Institute, and LuoyangOptoelectro Technology Development Center have already developed a variety of HMS systems with improvements including the adaptation of common attachments and power sources so that all night vision goggles and HMS are interchangeable, without the need to replace the entire system. The weight would be further reduced from the 200 grams weight of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG, while the performance is further increased (mainly in the increase of elevation angles). While it cannot be confirmed the claims by various sources that the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10developed from HMS onboard the J-7E/F-7PGwould be selected for JF-17, the aircraft is certainly compatible with the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10

Electronic warfare

It has all the standard electronic warfare systems, such as radar warning receiver, missile approach warning system, etc.

The computer can store more than 500 existing radar signals for identification, which is around 5 times of that F-7MP/P, and actually already stores more than 250 known radar signal patterns.

360-degree field of viewfor the missile approach warning system with both infrared & ultraviolet spectrum detection.

BM/KG300G Self protection jamming pod.

KZ900 Electronic reconnaissance pod.

Blue Sky navigation pod: Low altitude navigational and attack pod

FILAT Forward-looking Infrared Laser Attack Targeting pod

Other targeting pods

Communication

The JF-17 has two communication radios; one of them has the capacity for data link to exchange data from either a ground control center or an AWACS/AEW.

The modular design of solid state avionics has enabled the data link for the air-to-ground precision guided munitions to be carried internally, thus eliminating the need to carry external data link pods that are common for current Russian and Vietnam War era American systems, but this only applies to the radar or GPS guided air-to-surface missiles, because for television, infrared, or laser guided munitions, the aircraft lacks built-in electro-optics targeting and weapon control systems, so an external electro-optic targeting pod must be carried such as the Chinese built Blue Sky.

Engine

The current engine in the JF-17, the Russian RD-93, is not completely smoke-free. Emissions have been significantly decreased, but some smokiness still remains. Nevertheless, how truly impressive the RD-93 can be, and even considering all its misgivings, the acceleration and quick response it can achieve is well within expectations. According to most test pilots, the engine's response is virtually instantaneous. Here is a comparison between the RD-93 and the Chinese WS-13:

ENGINES:

Chinese WS-13

Russian RD-93

Percentage Difference

Length (m):

4.15

4.25

-2.35%

Diameter (m):

1.02

1.04

-1.92%

Weight (kg):

1135

1055

+7.58%

Thrust (afterburning, kN):

86.37

81.3

+6.24%

Thrust (dry, kN):

56.75

50

+13.50%

Bypass ratio:

0.57

0.49

+16.33%

Engine maintenance

Instead of being required to be sent back to the main overhaul factories in the rear for engine replacements, the aircraft engine can be readily replaced at the forward airbases in field conditions within two hours (one hour forty-five minutes has been achieved), providing the necessary maintenance equipment is all in place.

Ground maintenance equipment

In comparison to Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30, Chinese claim that its indigenously developed ground maintenance equipment of JF-17 offers significant advantages to the current Russian one on the market, and the PLAAF has already begun to replace Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30 for the following reasons:

Like its western counterparts, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is not limited to serve a single type of aircraft, instead, it is designed to service a wide range of aircraft, including both civilian and military. In comparison, most Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30 are purposely built and can only serve the aircraft in the Flanker family.

The Chinese ground maintenance equipment utilizes solid state electronics, and has better reliability.

The Chinese ground maintenance equipment is based on the commercial off-the-shelf products that greatly reduced the logistic problems due to its commonality with similar commercial equipment available while meeting the military standards at the same time.

Due to the adaptation of the commercial off-the-shelf products, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is cheaper to purchase, and more importantly, cheaper to operate than the specially design Russian ones, which have unit price from at least half a million to more than a million United States dollars.

The Chinese ground maintenance equipment adopts the multi-tasks workstation priniciple of similar American systems, and thus much fewer equipment is needed like the American systems. In comparison, most Russian ground maintenance equipment offered for export for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30is single tasked, thus forcing the buyers to spend more money on puchasing every type in order to meet the complete maintenance requirements.

Due to its similar design that follows western systems, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is compact and can be deployed by air like its western counterparts. In contrast, the Russian ground maintenance equipment for Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30 is bulky and can only be transported on land since it cannot fit inside cargo airplanes.

The Chinese ground maintenance equipment is versatile like similar western systems in that it can either be truck mounted to increase mobility, or trailer mounted to reduce cost. In contrast, the current Russian ground maintenance equipment on the market for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30 only comes in truck mounted form (as of 2006).

Instead of being built by a single production complex associated with the aircraft manufacturer like the ground maintenance equipment of the Flanker family, the complete set of the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is developed by different manufacturers of the similar equipment used for commercial airplanes, so that buyers would have wider choice of suppliers, and would not have to pay higher prices because they would not to be locked into the deal forced up on them by the aircraft manufacturer. The purchasers of the Chinese ground maintenance equipment therefore are open to purchase western components should they choose to, when there are better deals to be found.

More importantly, since most of the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is for civilian use, there is far less likelihood of being embargoed like the Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30, which is purely for military use.

The civilian usage of the multi-tasked Chinese ground maintenance equipment also means that the equipment can be better utilized for civilian aircraft and thus reducing the cost of operation like similar western systems. In contrast, not only is the Russian counterpart limited to military aircraft, it is also only limited to a single family of military aircraft because many of the single tasked Russian ground maintenance equipment purposely built for Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30 can only be used for Flankers.

Like similar western systems of modular design, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment also has the option of modular design so that when newer subsystems become available, they can be readily incorporated into the system by replacing the older ones on the racks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rcf2PKkxc

Pakistan Air Force JF-17

The first 50 JF-17s entering Pakistan Air Force(PAF) service will only incorporate Chinese avionics and weapon systems. Subsequent upgrades will be made on PAF JF-17s every five years, planned additions include infra-red search & track (IRST), in-flight refueling (IFR) and possibly engine change from the Russian RD-93 to Chinese WS-13 and may be some minor stealth features.[13][14]

Beyond the initial 50 PAF JF-17s, the remaining may be equipped with European avionics and radars. Pakistan had begun negotiations with British and Italian defence firms over potential avionics and ECM/EW systems for JF-17. In fact, one of the radar options for JF-17 is the Italian Grifo S7.[15]

The first two have arrived in Pakistan and are part of the initial 150 order. The PAF aims to boost the JF-17 fleet to 200-250.

Weaponry

The SD-10is the primary Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Air-to-Air Missile (AAM) for the JF-17

All weapon systems are designed to be compatiblewith both Westernsystems (ie. supporting MIL-STD-1760 data bus), Chinese systems and Pakistani systems as well.

Air-to-air weaponry

The JF-17 is primarily an export-oriented fighter, thus it can be built according a customer’s specifications and use a variety of Chinese and Western weapon systems.

These include air-to-air Beyond Visual Range missiles(BVRs).

Non-Chinese Weapons

Chinese Weapons

Air-to-ground weaponry

In addition to unguided bombs and rockets, the aircraft is adopted to deploy a wide range of precision guided munitions, including:

Non-Chinese weapons:

  • DPGM (Precision Guided Bomb) – Denel (South Africa)
  • Raptor-I precision-guided long-range glide bomb (60 km) – Denel (South Africa)
  • Raptor-II precision-guided long-range glide bomb (120 km) – Denel (South Africa)
  • Anti-ship missile such as Exocet and Harpoon missile.
  • Russian KAB series laser guided bombs; these Russian bombs cannot be directly mounted on weapon pylons like Western or Chinese munitions, instead, added special adapter rails are needed for JF-17s when using them

Indigenous Pakistani Weapons

  • H-2 Stand-off glide bomb (60 KM)
  • H-4 Stand-off powered glide bomb (120 KM)
  • Ra’adStand-off cruise mssile (350 KM)
  • HAFR-2 Anti-Runway bomb

Chinese weapons:

All precision guided munitions listed above are either GPS or radar guided, and when the television or laser guided munitions are deployed, addition electro-optical targeting pods such as the Chinese-built Blue Sky pod must be carried externally in order to provide guidance and targeting information.

List of customers with confirmed aircraft orders:

Potential customers

The following air forceshave shown interest in the JF-17 Thunder:

Sources: Wikipedia, Camra site, Def. Post., APP and other internet sources

Military Strategy

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Tu shaaheen hai, basaira kar pharaon kee chatanon pur”..

“Jhapatna palatna, palat kar jhapatna;

Lahu garm rakhne ka hai ik bahana”

flying eagle

…..Alama Iqbal meesage, and the anthem of the Paksitan Airforce (the falcon your home is on the highest peaks of the mountain…the flight of the falcon, moving backwards and forwards, up and down is but an excuse to warm the blood up!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrNIdbzkwo&feature=related

After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.

Pakistan rebounding from volatile events faced issues with many of its “allies” who were also the suppliers. The USA did not want to sell any arms to Pakistan. The UK and Russia did the same. Pakistan evaluated her dangerous geo political situation as well as a belligerent international atmosphere and made some strategic decisions. The sons and daughters of Pakistan pledged “Never again” and developed a comprehensive strategy to be self-sufficient in her defense needs. It created a Nuclear deterrent, indigenous Al Khalid Tanksand a missile program that is the envy of South Asia. Neither the mercenaries sent from the across the border, not the blackmail can now harm the fabric of the country.

Amid tension with India which recently sent an Israeli satellite to space, Iran has now joined the space club.//www.moinansari.wordpress.com

BACKGROUND: Necessity is the mother of invention: After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR in the Hindukush and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan has always been proud of the Sabres, the F-104s and the F-16s. Every Pakistani truck in the 90s had an F-16 painted on its side and back. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading level of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The F-16s aircraft, the pride and jof of the PAF were never delivered and the money was never returned. This theft, to this day remains one of the biggest points of Anti-Americanism in Pakistan.

After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.After winning the war in Afghanistan, defeating the USSR and observing the implosion of the Soviet Union Pakistanis wanted to celebrate with their American allies. Pakistan paid $450 million to the USA for F-16 aircraft. Before the aircraft were delivered a cascading levels of crippling sanctions were imposed on Pakistan. The aircraft were never delivered and the money was never returned.

Pakistan faces sanctions and does not get delivery of F-16s that were paid for: After U.S. sanctionswere imposed on Pakistan in 1990s, Pakistan became interested in the JF-Thunder project. The sanctions forced Pakistan in developing her own aircraft and her own missiles.

No more turmoil in Pakistan is permissible (Peoples Dialy–Beijing China)No more turmoil in Pakistan is permissible (Peoples Dialy–Beijing China)No more turmoil in Pakistan is permissible (Peoples Dialy–Beijing China)China faced sanctions from America: In 1986, China signed an agreement with Grumman to develop an upgrade for the J-7 known as the “Saber II”, the replacement of the abandoned “Super 7″ upgrade of J-7.

No more turmoil in Pakistan is permissible (Peoples Dialy–Beijing China)That particular program was cancelled in 1990, primarily due to worsening relations with the U.S. following the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. However, CAC kept the program alive by providing low-level funding from its own resources.

The 5000 year old ancient trade routes between Pakistan and China are being revived with modern freeways that were ocnstructed 20 years ago. 5000 years ago theThe 5000 year old ancient trade routes between Pakistan and China are being revived with modern freeways that were ocnstructed 20 years ago. 5000 years ago the Harrappan Pakistanis were trading with the ChineseThe Pakistani relationship with China is several thousands of year old. The Pakistanis in the Indus Valley traded with the Chinese a very long time ago in pre-history.

Two sanctioned countries cooperate to build new fighter: The Pakistan Airforce knew its needs, and prioritized its requirements. Both Pakistan and China had been jilted and were looking for plane to build. The new plane has exclusively been designed for Pakistani needs–deep penetration into India. The JF-17/FC-1 is designed to be a cost-effective plane which can meet the tactical and strategic needs of the Pakistani Air Force.The project was originally expected to cost about US$500 million, divided equally between Pakistan and China. Each plane will cost Pakistan about US$15-20 million. The JF-17 Thunder initial development project was completed in a record period of four years. However, later improvements to the project has taken up more time.

The JF-17 Thunder currently uses the RD-93 Russian jet engine, but it will be eventually replaced with a Chinese WS-13 engine. Long term plans also call for the engine to be produced in Pakistan. Pakistani engineers are already working on this. Newer versions of the plane may use other engines and other avionics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTY2L6P9Aa0

 Pakistan started mass production of the JF-17 Thunder on Jan. 20th 2008.Seventeen Thunder F-17s will be inducted into the PAF at the end of 2008. The ultimate goal is to have about 300-500 of these fighters in the PAF. About 50 percent of the on-board equipment and avionics for the fighter would be manufactured in Pakistan at the Kamra plant, and the rest of the assembly parts would come from China. The planes come fitted with “Beyond Visual Range Missiles” and expanded custom developed functionality to reach far away targets without refueling. It can fire the Pakistani developed nuclear tipped missiles and Pakistani cruise missiles also. The indigenous production capability will increase exponentially because also wants to export these planes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgTciEyWaFE

Pakistan Air Force chief, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said last year that 17 aircraft would be manufactured in 2008, and 20 more the next year, with an ultimate goal of achieving the capability of manufacturing 25 to 30 aircraft per year. Pakistan has announced that it could procure 150-300 aircraft to meet the tactical and strategic needs of its Air Force and to replace the Chengdu F-7P fighters in current service. Beijing delivered two $20-million JF-17 fighters equipped with Russian-made RD-93 engines to Pakistan in March 2007, prompting Indian protests which were overruled by Russia. Pakistan’s backup pla was to use the WC-13 Chinese version of the RD-93 engine. Sooner rather than later the JF-Thunder will switch to the Chinese version of the engine and eventually to the Pakistan engine being developed. Part of the jets development used the plans from Israel’s Lavi fighter.

DEVELOPMENT OF ENGINE….. the Russians have made an oral commitment to Pakistan that it will not stop the transfer of RD-93 engines. Taking into account the development of engine technology in the next RD-93 may be the new RD-93B replacement. The new engine thrust will have 10% increase. At the same time China is also developing its own aircraft engine and it may actually produce the RD-93B in China and that will ensure the supply of Jf-17 engines in the long run.

My Pakistani sources say that the new engine’s performance is superior to RD-93. More composite material will be added to the Fuselage. JF-17’s Thrust-Weight Ratio will increase with increase in thrust.

The new engine will also provide China and Pakistan with advantage and will enable JF-17 to compete directly with the Russian MIG-29OVT

JF-17 in other areas have also been improved. Aerodynamic improvements have increased their mobility, as well as the ability to engage in a variety of tasks. The small batches manufactured JF-17 is likely to represent the ultimate models of aircraft body Design. Particularly noteworthy is the central fuselage of DSI inlet used in the JF-17 has brought some stealth capability. Other improvements include reduced body weight, through redesigned interior more space has been created, an increase of the fuel carrying capacity, and increased range. Aircraft will achieve speed of 1.8 Mach. After the the improved engine, aircraft’s performance will further be enhanced. The new information shows that the current design will be frozen for the next three years before some further changes are introduced.

Other internal changes that are taking place include the introduction of entire telex control and a more advanced electronic equipment. The new batches will include an IRST. The JF-17 has the all-glass cockpit as we already know, and the first 50 JF-17 will be installed with KLJ-10 radar. Pakistan Air Force is very satisfied with the performance of this radar

In fact there is a reason for making the KLJ-10 radar development very important as it will be put into the first batch of JF-17 for launch of SD-10 giving them the BVR capability. Pakistan Air Force has sought this core capability for a long time, and the JF-17 will be able to shoulder the huge air defense burden. Though there has benn some recent talk of Rc-400 and they may be integrated with the 2nd batch production, Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved .

Finally, the Pakistan Air Force will also use the data chain technology to achieve communication between different platforms for safety data transmission. In 2009 PAF expect to have Saab 2000 ready and gain the ability to use data links, JF-17 will also possesses advanced electronic warfare system, which is still in shrouds, New aircrafts will also have the missile attack Early Warning System (MAWS) sensors. With the new improvements in electronic warfare capability, PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52. Grand Strategy

Sixty percent of the aircraft’s frame, while 80 percent of its avionics would be manufactured in Pakistan by 2010. 40 to 50 aircrafts will have avionics of Chinese origin, while the next batch would be fitted with indigenously developed avionics.

JF-17 Evolution Continues:

The JF-17 is a truly remarkable plane. Starting from the basic designs that Chengdu and the PAF were tinkering with, the Super-7 with basically a MiG-21 with side intakes, it has evolved into a completely different beast. The Military Aviation community was taken by complete surprise, almost shock when the JF-17 came out with a modern cockpit, DSI intakes and previously unseen quality of build.

Yet, when even the most ardent followers of the program had thought that the JF-17 had fully evolved, it has once again surprised all of us in its next evolution. It is likely that this evolution is going to take shape after the second batch. Changes are comprehensive and across the board and include greater range, lower RCS, AESA radar and a new engine with greater TWR (thrust to weight ratio).

The lower RCS is to be reached using new materials, including advanced composites. A new RAM paint is also rumored that is said to be similar to that being used on the F-35. The nose will see comprehensive redesign and is rumored to incorporate a new AESA radar set of Chinese origin. One proposition is that the single tail is replaced with twin-tails similar to the F-35. A new DSI is also projected that will further lower RCS.

The TWR of the engine is projected to increase with the WS-13, which are likely to go into the second batch. The iteration of the WS-13, possibly the “WS-13A” is likely to go into the stealthier JF-17. Another painted scenario is of a further iteration of the RD-93. This will marginally increase the TWR further, which itself will increase the TWR marginally.

However, this increase in the TWR of the engine will be moderated by the increase in the wing size, greater internal fuel and the twin tails, amongst other weight increases. On the other hand, newer materials and over all weight decreasing projects in turn will moderate these weight increases.

The stealthier JF-17 will incorporate a larger wing, improving higher altitude maneuverability. This is a crucial aspect that is increasingly becoming important in BVR combat, where the higher and faster jets can in some form take pot shots at slower and lower BVR platforms. Another aspect of the larger wing will be increased internal fuel carrying capacity. This is addresses one of the areas that the JF-17 is weaker in – range and the ability to stay on station longer.

The nose, vital areas of the cockpit as well as a whole host of other technical areas will be addressed. the nose will in fact be fully redesigned around a new AESA radar and be formated to lower RCS. The DSI design is also being redesigned to better accommodate and optimize higher altitudes and higher speeds. A second generation of the onboard information collection, dissemination and display will be incorporated.

However, thrust vectoring will not be incorporated, neither will be internal carriage of weapons. This planned version may or may not go into production. However, all, most or many of the changes may be incorporated into the third batch of 50 being ordered by Pakistan. My personal opinion is that this prototype is more of a technology demonstrator. Major changes would not be appropriate unless a major export customer is found. I would think however that all the minor changes, as well as a few crucial major ones will be incorporated. This is likely to include the new engine, as well as the larger wings. Stealth features should also be incorporated but major redesign is likely to be avoided for the 3rd batch production models (such as twin tails and new nose). This version will be targeted for export and will not be part of the Chinese arsenal. Grand Strategy

Officially the JF-Thunder will be upgraded in 2012. Then the possibility of upgrading the Chinese engine used in the J-10 may be considered. The engine upgrade may be a two step process. First the upgrade to Chinese WS-13 and then perhaps an upgrade to the J-10 engine. Concurrently Pakistan has a parallel program for another jet to be revealed in 2012. Pakistan has acquired F-16 block 52 (the latest F-16s are block 60 flown by the UAE Airforce). By 2012 Pakistan will be producing the avionics indigenously. However newer technologies are already being purchased from Italy, France and Germany.

Janes Defense weekly reports that Pakistan is in the process of acquiring the latest air-to-air missiles from France’s MBDA and radars from Thales.

History of the F-17 Thunder:The figher’s parentage can be traced to the Paksitani efforts to build the Mashaq K-8 Trainer, and the Chinese efforts to build the Sabre 2. The first prototype of the JF-17 Thunder was rolled out on May 31, 2003, conducted its first taxi trials on July 1, and made its first flight on August 25 of the same year. Prototype 03 made its first flight in April 2004. On April 28, 2006, Prototype 04 made its first flight with fully operational avionics.

The Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder, is a single-seat multirole fighter aircraft. The first two aircraft were delivered to the Pakistan Air Force on 2007-03-12.[2].The JF-17 is being built by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) { http://www.pac.org.pk/amfsite-final/jf17.html} and China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation(CAC). The JF-17 is the single-engine derivative of the Soviet-era MiG-29 Fulcrum (Soviet/Russian Air Force in 1979). The JF-17 also has lineage from the “Super 7” project, as well as the Israeli Lavi fighter.

Serial production has begun in June 2006, and the first 16 aircraft will be rolled out in early 2007. Mass production in 2007-2008 will be at an annual 10-15 planes per year, while from 2009+it will be at 25-30 planes per year. The JF-17 will replace Pakistan’s MiG-21-derived Chengdu F-7, Nanchang A-5 (Q-5) and Mirage III/V currently in service.

Some salient features of the JF/17-Thunder:

According to the JF-17’s engineers the JF-17 has the world’s second combat aircraft to have DSI intakes. These intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. While the JF-17 began with a similar wing design concept to the F-16, The JF-17 has incorporated a leading-edge root extension that is similar in concept to the F/A-18. The leading-edge root extension (LERX) covers an area of about 9% of the Wing area. This has led to an improved Center of Gravity (CG) and better harmonization of its multirole capability by taking advantage of the pitch digital fly-by-wire Flight Control Systems (FCS) and the variations possible with the LERX.

The result of this is to improve control of the aircraft and to lower supersonic drag. Given the low margins on this class of combat aircraft, such improvement represent a significant feat.

The JF-17’s Man Machine Interface (MMI), with full Hands On Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) and glass cockpit represent a truly 4+ generation in combat aircraft. The aircraft has the capa­bility to perform air defense, inter­diction, airfield strike, precision strike, and escort missions. While deep penetrations into Indian airspace may not be in the order of the day, given the close proximity of many Indian airfields and military installations, the JF-17 can play a significant role for the PAF, even in strike, a role sometimes overlooked by analysts. With the latest modifications and the newer version of the RD-93 (or WS-13), the JF-17 will be able to perform at a large radius of action.

In terms of meeting PAF’s specifications, the JF-17 has the distinction of exceeding the PAF Air Staff require­ments, including (surprisingly), for the attack role.

The Russian RD-93, despite “engineered” controversy by the Indian media, is slated to power at least the initial batches of the JF-17. The RD-93 is to be equiped with advanced crystal blade technology and a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Other than improving the engine performance, the DEEC results in carefree handling under a wide range of conditions and at virtually all relevant altitudes.

The JF-17 has been designed from day one for ease of operations and maintainability. One such feature is that of a single point pressure refueling sys­tem. This significantly reduces the turn around time, meaning more sorties can be generated, while maintenance intensive Indian aircraft remain grounded. This is furthered by the modular mainte­nance design of the aircraft. The level of the serviceability and ease of general maintenance is further illustrated by how panels and components are installed at man’s height and a full computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system can be relied upon. Grand Strategy

PAF plans for the future: F-10 or J-10 (Jian 10) Chinese 4th generation Aircraft:Instead of buying 75 new F-16s as originally planned, Pakistan decided to diversify its options and buy some J-10s. This is China’s finest and most secret project, at the time which was shown to President Musharraf during his visit to China last year. Indian analysts think it has the mark of the Israeli and French fighters. The J-10 is better than the Su-30 and Su-10 and may have the AESA or the PESA radar systems to make it more competitive with the Su-30MKI.4th Generation aircraft: Beyond Pakistani made JF-17 Thunders and Chinese made J-10s. When will the PAF acquire J-11? or will be manufacture them?

JF-Thunders Comparision with Indian LCA: “..the PAF has certainly followed the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), or Tejas (Radiance) programme, and kept its failures in mind while working on the JF-17 project. The Indian LCA programme is now approaching the fourth decade of its operation. The initial operational clearance of the LCA project, which was sanctioned in 1983 to replace the MiG-21s, has now been pushed back to mid-2008 while it could be joining the Indian Air Force in the years beyond 2010. Not only that, the original project cost of Rs56 billion could cross a figure of Rs100 billion. For the much-touted aircraft that would have a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, composite airframe made of aluminium-lithium alloys, carbon-fibre and titanium, full-glass cockpit, advanced combat avionics, multi-mode radar and contemporary weapon systems, the costs have massively over-run and the delays are mind-boggling. But still, the dream of developing an indigenous Kaveri engine is far off and the initial aircraft squadrons will be equipped with the American GE-404 engines. Nevertheless, in the fast changing geo-strategic environment, the missions for which the LCA was originally conceived may have changed when it is inducted in the Indian Air Force in large numbers.”Ali Abbas Rizvi, the News. Feb 8th, 2008

The PAF will have Chinese and American planes. The JF/17 Tunder will be the primary aircraft for the PAF and the SU-30MKI will be the same for the IAF

Only the first 50 will have the basic configuration, later blocks will be significantly more advanced.

Even the first 50 will have a whole host of features, some of them SOC has underestimated. For instance, the radar can simultaneously engage 4 not 2 as SOC mentions. Also, detection range for something the size of an MKI are likely to be a good deal more than 75 kms. Further, data linking between the fighters and with the radar network and AEW assets means this is even greater, particularly as SOC admits, any such scenario would be over Pakistani territory.

If seems clear that the J-10 will be focused on countering the 230 odd MKI that India will eventually have. Various interviews indicate this. 100 J-10s reflect a good direct comparison to 230 MKI, given the over all exchange ratio between the larger IAF and smaller PAF. Further, in actual operational service this will actually be even better – the twin engined and maintenance intensive MKI, run by less qualified Indian technicians will generate markedly lower sortie rates than PAF’s WS-10A fitted J-10s. This is not bias, but a fact based on the Indian maintenance record.
 

Superiority of the MKI’s PESA radar, with a detection range of 160 Km

AEW&C assets will also negate any advantages the MKI has over any potential encounter with the FC-1 / JF-17. When both sides have this, it levels the playing field for the FC-1 / JF-17

The detection range of the Bars is (according to Janes, for a 2m squared target), 80-100 km head on. About half what was first estimated, and that assuming a 2m squared target. More probable would be a calculation for 1 meter squared target, and that is being generous, given that the JF-17 is smaller than the F-16, and hides its blades AND has RAM coating.
 

The 75km is the detection range of the JF-17, for a “fighter sized target”. Clearly, for the MKI, specially loaded out for offensive operations, this will be way bigger. Again, assuming that what was originally MY estimate of the detection range is in fact accurate (I actually never said 75 kms but > 75 kms, implying a minimum of, rather than a typical range. Further, given revelation of info on the KLJ-7’s surpising modernity and the increased radome size on the JF-17, the point becomes even less arguable).

Later blocks of the JF-17 are likely to have an AESA radar Grand Strategy

Whats next?

The PAF is now building the J-10Bs and the J-11s are in the works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqLcJPu5jM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUds6Sfuxg

28 Responses

  1. [...] Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder Fighter plane: US sanctions and external existe… [...]

  2. >It is incredilous that while 75% of Bharatis live below >Sub Saharan penury levels,

    the normal western way of claiming that a labourer in india earns 2 dollars a day and so is very poor is a misrepresentation of reality. 2 dollars a day is 100 rupees in india which can fully feed a family for 2-3 days.

    >It is all the more astounding that while 450 million >Bharatis are enslaved and untouchable living in >bondage,

    are you in bharat? have you personally gone and verified that 450 million people live in bondage? stop using propoganda to justify your flawed arguments.

    sure there are a lot of poor people in the country – this includes people from all sections of the society – including brahmins. but all these people are increasingly finding ways to join the mainstream economic success.

    >You said it correctly, whatever Bharat dos, Pakistan >will find a way to thwart that.

    why? don’t you have your own goals without doing anything/everything with reference to india?

    when are you going to find your own identity?

  3. i am sorry to see innocent palestinian dying.
    But Israel is using India’s Dhruv helicopter.

  4. i have provided all the readers with the cia link ,moin u read it and give your comments on what cia says, accept it or not is your business,

    I know your madrassa /mosque education will urge you to deny CIA FACTS,

  5. Moin,

    Open the cia afct book through google,then country-Pakistan, then go down to economy page.

    • Because you have been unable to provide a URL link we cannot accpt your word on ANYTHING.

      The statistics you provoided do not exist on the CIA page. You keep posting repeats of your flamebiats.

      Right now your creadability is below zero in front of thousands of readers

      As the American saying goes..”put up or *** up”

  6. No this is not my opinion ,open the cia fact book and open the economy page of pakistan and these are the exact sentences.

  7. I agree with you that india is a poor country ,and wahtever statistics you have given about poverty but poverty is not a shame ,poverty can be prevented but not eradicated .
    Bullock cart programme is not the right word,
    no country in the world will share their space programme,even china will not do the same thing with pakistan,they will help pakistan in launching satellites ,but not transfer the space tech to pakistan ,
    russia initially helped in launching satellites,but after that it was left to india to make its own things,russia never helped any further,many satellites failed,but gradually with hard work,india became succesful.
    Pakistan lagged behind and this is not a lie as a result they lost their slots in the space.
    With regards to america they never ther space programme with any one of the world.
    So everything was indeginously built in India.

    Pakistan will built its own satellite later,but everything is slowed down now ,because has’nt got the money.

    • Poverty cannot be eradicated by if the priorities are incorrect it will never be reduced. It is incredilous that while 75% of Bharatis live below Sub Saharan penury levels, Bharat is spending $2.5 billion on Air Carft carriers. It is all the more astounding that while 450 million Bharatis are enslaved and untouchable living in bondage, Bharat spends Billions on Aircraft purchases.

      Which ethical turpitude, and which sense of right or wrong is directing the moral compass of Delhi?

      You said it correctly, whatever Bharat dos, Pakistan will find a way to thwart that.

      Here is the report on Bharat is still using Russian launchers…

      Project director of Chandrayaan-1 Mayilsami Annadurai said the Centre has approved a Rs 425 crore budget for the Chandrayaan-2 venture, with seed money of Rs 50 crore already in place. by Staff Writers, Bangalore, India (PTI) Nov 04, 2008

      With Chandrayaan-1 well on its way to moon without any glitch, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has now initiated a dialogue with its Russian counterpart of work-sharing of Chandrayaan-2 which features a lander and a rover.

      “Conceptual studies are in place. Overall configuration is finalised but the scientific experiments are yet to be finalised. It may take six months (for finalisation)”, Isro chairman G Madhavan Nair said.

      “The lander will be from Russia.
      The Russian space agency is cooperating with us. The rover will be a joint development between Russia and India. Many of the scientific instruments (payloads on board Chandrayaan-2) will be from India”, Nair, also secretary in the department of space, said.

      Unlike the Chandrayaan-1 which will orbit the moon at an altitude of 100 km mapping topography and the mineralogical content of the lunar soil, the Chandrayaan-2 mission involves a lunar orbiting spacecraft and a lander and a rover on the moon’s surface.

      Project director of Chandrayaan-1 Mayilsami Annadurai said the Centre has approved a Rs 425 crore budget for the Chandrayaan-2 venture, with seed money of Rs 50 crore already in place.

  8. i am not trying to undermine pakistan or its military supremacy,pakistan is militarily a strong country,but the building of JF 17 ,is totally done by Chinese techno.. and not independently by Pakistan.

  9. i beleive pakistan made the al khalid tanks but i dont beleive pakistan has made jf thunder planes,i think China transferred the techonolgy to pakistan .Pakistan has long way to go to make these superrsonic jets,its not easy and if a country can make a jet they can easily make a cryogenic rocket engine pakistan still hasnt got satellte launching capacity.
    Pakistan still can not make there own helicopter which India can.

    • The JF-17 Thunder was a joint project. Please see the article above. The Chinese had some knowhow but they did not have any access to Western technology. Pakistan designed the plane from scratch, put up half the money for the development and proposed a plane with specific features that were needed by the PAF. Of course the plane is in serial production in Pakistan with an order of more than 250 planes.

      The Bharati Tejas has been in design for the past 20 years and is a total failure.

    • Amritrao: Either you do not read your own posts or are unable to read the responses.

      http://rupeenews.com/2008/10/24/india-as-a-space-power/

      U.S. Missile Nonproliferation Policy and India’s Path to an ICBM Capability Richard Speier

      The path to India’s ICBM capability has spanned more than four decades and is largely based on space-launch vehicle technology obtained from foreign sources.

      We have already responded to the Bullock Cart Space program and how everything is Russian or based on the US scout program

      http://rupeenews.com/2008/10/26/indias-bulluck-cart-space-program-made-in-usa-russia/

      1963-1964: A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, an Indian engineer, works at Wallops Island, where the Scout space-launch vehicle (an adaptation of Minuteman ICBM solid-fuel rocket technology) is flown.[3]

      1965: Following Kalam’s return to India, the Indian Atomic Energy Commission requests U.S. assistance with the Scout, and NASA provides unclassified reports.[4]

      How could a country that cannot feed, or clothe its population build space vehicles. How can a country whose entire missile program was scrapped by the military send rockets into space? How can a country which takes 10 years to design a plane creates a dud explore the moon? How can a country where 75% of the population lives below Sub-Saharan poverty find the money to spend on satellite technology (India: More than 75% live below Sub Saharan poverty line ). How can the hungriest country in Asia compete with the Chinese and the Japanese?

      THE COUNTRIES WITH THE WORST RECORD ON HUNGER. THE HIGHER THE NUMBER THE WORSE IT IS. INDI RANKS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP. On this chart Cambodia is the best and Congo the worst. India is worse than Burkino Faso and slightly better than Zimbabwe, and Haiti.
      # World power India? Part 2
      # India as a World Power: Part 3
      64 Cambodia 32.4 23.2
      65 Burkina Faso 25.1 23.5
      66 India 32.5 23.7
      67 Zimbabwe 20.2 23.8
      68 Tanzania 26.1 24.2
      69 Haiti 35.9 24.3

  10. well done pakistan east or west pakistan is the best

  11. Yeah AA, I saw this really sad programme on Channel 4 where they had these poor ‘lower caste’ Hindus (dunno if Dalits or a bit ‘higher’) living on the very margins of some village.

    They were destitute and hungry with nothing to eat but field mice which they skillfully hunted, roasted and ate to survive. As a result the rest of their Indian brethren instead of offering sympathy and help, gave them the insulting epithet of ‘rat people.’

  12. Eating grass is better then eating rats.
    Its JF 17 not LCA. I wonder how come you people talk about your space programme if you cant develop a single engine for your LCA.

  13. Ha ha ha….This is what is called living in a fool’s paradise!
    Quality of Chinese products is well known-Cheap, adulterated and bad quality….Suits Pakistan that its air force will be flying the pieces of junk that were also reverse engineered with stolen technologies!
    All the best.

    See below for a humorous depiction of your ‘nuklear’ success. Pray to god your weapons work as only he can know!

  14. Indian egotism and hubris is breath-taking.

    When they’re not hijacking their own planes, bombing their own parliament, destroying their own trains, massacring their own people, masterminding ‘atrocities’ in Mumbai, carrying out holocausts on Christians and Muslims, they’re swaggering around with delusions of grandeur, blaming their black deeds on Pakistan and ‘Muslim terrorists’ and barbing Pakistanis on what they can and can’t do.

    Heavy in debt Pakistan may be but so are many other developing (and developed states like Hungary and Iceland) especially with a global down-turn.

    As for citizens of dying of hunger, I’m afraid that’s India’s forte, which thinks itself an international politico-economic ’stud’, spending millions of dollars launching spy satellites and trying to compete with Chinese astronauts, whilst most of its population is lying half-dead in the gutters of Calcutta, Bombay and elsewhere.

    Pakistan (and all nations in Southern Asia) have to spend on defence and ‘war-heads’ because they’ve unfortunately got India as a neighbour: an expansionist, reactionary, Hindu-fundamentalist, militarist, dangerous country that has had wars with most of its neighbours.

    This cannibalistic entity wants to gobble up independent neighbours from different civilisations to secure ‘lebensraum’ (living space – Nazi-style) for its perpetually increasing Hindu population. Instead of using family planning, they want to steal others’ territories and simultaneously achieve their wet dream of ‘Akhand Bharat’.

  15. I am damm sure pakistan doesn’t have capabilty to make even bicycle chain, forget about jet. its ridiculous to see the whole country in heavy debt, people are dying of hunger no education but they only care about there military warhead .

    God save Pakistan.. ” ghaas khayenge lakin bomb banayenge” Pakistani national anthem .

    but for all pakistani people. wo time door nahi jap Ghaas bhi naseeb nahi honge “‘

  16. great plan. All pakistanis are proud of Pak-China friendship.

  17. jf-17 thunder is a nice plane but need to get improved it can be similar like f-35 in future jf-17 thunder will become Pakistani F-35 thats for sure.

  18. Your pasting without references are useless and cannot be backed up. These could be your opinion, but your opinions are only worth the paper they are written upon

  19. You Sir made the claim that it was on the CIA factbook site. That was a false statement.

    We are already aware of the Wiki nonsense (manned by Bharati computer coolies). We have repeatrdly requested them to remove it. Your Wiki quote is bogus. It quotes an unknown NGO. If this is the authencity of your information, please learn to research material.

    We wish you the best of luck

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